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Night at the movies - The Matrix Revolutions


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Saw this at 12:30P today... how can I put it?

Some people really love this from some reviews I've seen... and some people hate it.

I fall into the latter category... they tied up some of the loose ends... but left open some bigger ones.

Action was at a minimum... and the scenes they did have were hokey and drawn out... the one cool scene was certain parts of the Battle for Zion.

At the end of this movie, you'll leave feeling that very little was truly resolved... which leaves it wide open for their MMO Matrix game that is in the works...

If you liked the first two, it will simply add even more questions... and certain parts are way too drawn out or add very little to the overall story.

Once more people see it, I'll throw in some gripes... but if you saw the first two, I suppose it's worth the matinee fee, but don't pay more than $6.00

6/10

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You know something, I haven't even seen the matrix part two and probably won't see three either. I was more than satisfied with the first one and am too affraid of seeing any more fillers to expand the story. No thanks, I have an imagination for that that I'm sure is way better than part 2 or 3.

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They added far too many parallel storylines and agendas in the second movie and did a really crappy job of resolving them the third time around...

This movie felt like they were rushing to solve one thing... it gets solved really quick and then they are rushing to solve another thing... and it get's solved... but they are totally unrelated things... until the end of the movie where everything kind of comes to a climax...

You'll understand a lot more of it if you watch the animatrix videos also... which I did last night.

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The problem is, they created so much for part 1 and 2 to answer that when they did in part 3, it was just too much to stuff in the amount of time they had.

If you are not thinking about the previous 2, especially the deeper parts of Reloaded, you are going to be left confused. Revolutions has so many moments where the meaning is hidden and what the characters are saying is important.

I felt a little overwhelmed when I left the movie. As I think more about it, things start to make sense. All I can say is that the Matrix Trilogy is different from any other I have seen before.

See Revolutions for what it is worth. However, if you go in there expecting the answers to be told to you directly, you will leave quite a bit more confused.

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Matrix was originally intended to be a trilogy of films, but thats where things get complicated. When the Wachowskis got cracking on the script for the sequel, it got so damn big that they turned it into two different movies. It's very possible that, rather than incorporate ideas for the final chapter into the Reloaded/Revolutions script, they left it open enough that they can attach the intended final chapter later on.

That also happens to be why Reloaded sucked so much, it was only half a movie.

Hopefully I'll have time to go see Revolutions myself before work today... provided I can finish my midterm paper early enough.

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Ok, so I saw it today. At first it was shaping up to be a MUCH better movie than Reloaded. But then there were a couple really lousy fighting scenes (Like guys running on the ceiling for no particular reason). Fortunately there's a little more philosphy in this one than Reloaded... and some very obvious christ-savior allusions... which, had they been fully realized, could have made for an interesting story loop. But no, the whole thing falls apart during the last 15 minutes. After the climax of the film there is no resolution. In fact, there's just a whole lot of camp and ambiguity. I would go so far as to compare the ending to an episode of Lost in Space. Yes, it's that bad.

3/10

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Hey Dreada how bout The Two Towers? not to bad for a sequel, Aliens another good sequel, T2 was pretty good, Attack of the Clones was pretty kick ass, so was GodfatherII. I have said often that I thought the original Matrix was overrated. Good SFX, decent story line, okay well maybe Great SFX,

but a movie that seemed more complex than it really was. I am probably in the minority but I enjoyed Dark City much more than the Matrix, though both had similar themes.

I just bought Reloaded but havent watched it, however my wife did and told me they did a better job parodying themselves than Scary Movie.

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I give it 10/10. I loved it. The ending could not have been better IMO - extremely fitting. Yes, this movie standing alone sucks, but when combined with the first two movies, makes an excellent over-all story. I liked the fighting as well, they made the style of it unique from the first two movies. I felt completely satisfied with it. Going to go see it again this weekend.

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quote:

Originally posted by LordDavid:

I give it 10/10. I loved it......I liked the fighting as well, they made the style of it unique from the first two movies. I felt completely satisfied with it. Going to go see it again this weekend.

I liked it too... I got your back...

Also, I would like to know what some of the loose ends were that are said to have not been put to rest. Not to be argumentative, but because for some reason I think I understood a lot of answers. I sometimes miss a lot of the questions to begin with though.

It was a very sad, dark movie. George Lucas would not approve.

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SPOILERS AHEAD (Not that it matters).

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First, what do the machines plan to do with Neo?

How the hell could the defeat of zion, etc, already have happened? For that matter, how could Neo already have happened?

How the hell was Neo able to affect things in the real world?

What exactly is with that little girl?

If Neo and all the people possessed by Smith died, then how the hell is the Oracle still alive?

OR, if somehow everone survived... then Neo also survived... so, again, what's going on with him?

What EXACTLY happened between the Oracle and the Merolvingion [sp?] (Ambiguous flashback needed)?

PLUS, IMO, this installment succumbed to every predictable cliche in the book. There were some ideas that the previous movies made allusions to that really should have been followed through on here. The ending needed some kind of unifying twist to make the trilogy work together... ie, the 'real' world isn't real at all. When it's all over, Neo dies and everything gets reset, real world and other. We see Neo waking up in his dingy hotel room with "Wake up Neo" on his computer monitor. Something to that effect... but the Wachowskis chose the worst-possible-ending.... unless there were one more movie in works. IMO, I don't see how they could resolve these quibbles in another movie, we just needed the last 15 mins of Revolutions to have been massively different.

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Personally, I didn't entirely love revolutions but I did like it. It was something totally different then I expected.

Firstly, you have to remember, to get the full story, you need to have seen reloaded, all episodes of the Animatrix, and completed both Niobe and Ghost's paths in Enter the Matrix. Everything is explained if you watch carefully.

That said, the story is still left very open in the end. The entire Neo story arc is completed but the total conflict has not been resolved. I imagine this is what the MMO game will complete.

Had I not seen the Animatrix or played the game, I'd probably be one of those people whom hated it, but since I did, I got much more of the story. And you can call it a dirty, sneaky and underhanded attempt to get you to pay more for the movie all you want, but the fact is you have to play the game fully and watch the Animatrix if you want to fully understand the story.

I do however, believe that it could've been done a lot better in regards to Neo, I often felt he "lacked imagination" in the use of his ability to do absolutely anything within the matrix.

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quote:

Firstly, you have to remember, to get the full story, you need to have seen reloaded, all episodes of the Animatrix, and completed both Niobe and Ghost's paths in Enter the Matrix. Everything is explained if you watch carefully.

yeah but i didn't see much difference between Niobe's path and Ghost's.

anyway i'm going to see this one soon. since i think its a great trilogy.

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quote:

Originally posted by Commander Elio Jason:

quote:

Firstly, you have to remember, to get the full story, you need to have seen reloaded, all episodes of the Animatrix, and completed both Niobe and Ghost's paths in Enter the Matrix. Everything is explained if you watch carefully.

yeah but i didn't see much difference between Niobe's path and Ghost's.

anyway i'm going to see this one soon. since i think its a great trilogy.


They did diverge occasionally. Like in the airport they took seperate paths, and they also did at the power plant. However each story revealed some nice little details, like exactly why the oracle's appearance changed.

Overal the game was poor in comparison to other games of the time, but that's most likely due to having such a small window of time to make it, plus having to make a game for the PC, PS2, GameCube, and Xbox at once.

And if you see it, make sure you get a matinee showing, it's not worth the 8-9 dollars for full price IMHO.

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quote:

Originally posted by Scrivener:

...what do the machines plan to do with Neo?

Good question. I don't know.

quote:

How the hell could the defeat of zion, etc, already have happened? For that matter, how could Neo already have happened?

According to the Architect, Neo was the result of an anomaly created by the Matrix. It was an expected anomaly and every so often the Architect would get a visit from the "One" who would choose the door to save humanity. As Sebbish stated, Neo was the first one to choose the other door.

quote:

How the hell was Neo able to affect things in the real world?

He was still connected, wirelessly. He could execute debilitating commands, causing flying bombs to self destruct and small amounts of sentinals to do the same. He could only effect things connected to the mainframe/machine core. He used the infrastructure of the matrix against the machines.

quote:

What exactly is with that little girl?

Another good question. I just thought she was some girl. I don't know why she got all the attention she did.

quote:

If Neo and all the people possessed by Smith died, then how the hell is the Oracle still alive?

I don't konw. When Smith copied the Oracle, it caused the room to shake and wind and stuff. The other Smiths were a bit unsettled by this 'new' copy.

quote:

OR, if somehow everyone survived... then Neo also survived... so, again, what's going on with him?

I understood Neo to have died, saving the machines from Smith. The only was for Neo to exist as he did was for Agent Smith to exist as he did. So when Neo allowed Agent Smith to copy him, it allowed the Machines to destroy Smith, which meant Neo had to die as well.

quote:

What EXACTLY happened between the Oracle and the Merolvingion [sp?] (Ambiguous flashback needed)?

I thought that he wanted her dead because she kept helping the humans and causing problems for him.

I guess the W-brothers could have been neater. There are unanswered questions. Seeing the Animatrix helped a lot. I haven't played the game yet. After I play the game and watch the movie a few more times, I'd like to put up a webpage that explains everything, referencing only the movies, animations and the game. Any unresolved issues I'd like to send to the W-brothers for an explanation.

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quote:

what do the machines plan to do with Neo?


Exactly what, I do not know. Religious people I have talked to speculate something like save his body and remember him as the savior because he did save the Machines and Zion...

quote:

How the hell could the defeat of zion, etc, already have happened? For that matter, how could Neo already have happened?

Blerm nailed it. "The One" exists to counter the program Smith... to balance the equation as so stated in the movie. Smith was created as you might remember in part one to aid in the war for the machines to find the computer hackers in the Matrix and disable them... but Smith was special and needed to be countered.

quote:

How the hell was Neo able to affect things in the real world?


Blerm got it again.

quote:

What exactly is with that little girl?

She is the program responsible for at least the control of the sky/weather in the Matrix... possibly more. Note the ending when the Oracle asks if she made the sun rise for Neo...

quote:

If Neo and all the people possessed by Smith died, then how the hell is the Oracle still alive?

The program could not be reset because Smith controled the Matrix, hence the reason for all the strange letters on the Matrix part way in "Whats wrong with the Matrix feed?" "Nothing, we are seeing the same thing you are". "The program Smith has grown beyond your control." The Machines CONTROLED The Matrix before Smith took over that is how they kept humans busy in incubation... when Neo died, his opposite had to die... to balance the equation. After Smith died, the machines regained control, and reset the matrix... hence that one scene where color came back and the girl woke up.

quote:

OR, if somehow everyone survived... then Neo also survived... so, again, what's going on with him?

Neo, as you know him, is dead. The ending is very important however. The oracle says he might come back. What this means is that "The One" will be created again when balance is required. The Architects line asking about how long the peace would last was crucial here. The machines STILL control humans in incubation, and the oracle says something about this at the end. If the war starts again, you better believe something will start like this again.

quote:

What EXACTLY happened between the Oracle and the Merolvingion [sp?] (Ambiguous flashback needed)?

the Oracle and the Architect are opposites... balancing and unbalancing each other. If one does something the other counters it. Oracle understood choice, the Architect does not. He fears it.

See it again and again until the answers are clear in your mind... like I said. If you are going there in the wrong mind set, you will leave utterly confused.

Every single answer is there, but hidden and VERY deep...

The ending is amazing... its unbelieveable how much fore-shadowing and answers they stuffed in it. Probably the deepest ending I have ever seen in a movie.

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If the Wachowski brothers or any other director consider venturing into the cyberpunk theme they should make it along the lines of Shadowrun the PnP game but better story not like Johnny Mnemonic and less confusing like the matrix sequels.

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Went to see Revolutions yesterday and I must say it blew me away. For those here who have admitted losing the story line, perhaps you didn't view things with an open mind or you were more interested in your bucket of popcorn

If you need everything in the plot explained, then see all the movies again and pay closer attention to every word in the dialogue

You don't need the games or the Animatrix to answer any of the questions posted here. The Animatrix was a side story based on the Osiris and her mission to gather information on the machine army. that's all I'm going to say about it.

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Thanks, Dambreville - that helped. I plan to see it again today. Though, I disagree with one thing:

quote:

Originally posted by Dambreville:

quote:

How the hell could the defeat of zion, etc, already have happened? For that matter, how could Neo already have happened?

...."The One" exists to counter the program Smith... to balance the equation as so stated in the movie. Smith was created as you might remember in part one to aid in the war for the machines to find the computer hackers in the Matrix and disable them... but Smith was special and needed to be countered.


"The One" exists not to counter the program Smith but as an anomaly born of the program creator's (the Architect) need to include 'choice' in the program. A perfect world failed, as did less perfect worlds, to be accepted by the humans. When the Architect allows the humans in the matrix the ability to choose, they accept the program more than any other program. This 'choice' however, creates an anomaly where people start to be woken up by unplugged humans, and if unchecked could lead to disaster for the machines. "The One" is therefore a controlled anomaly that is supposed to return to the source to reinsert the main program and reset the system. At the same time, Zion is destroyed.

When Neo got shot in the chest and refused to die, CHOOSING to live, he f'd everything up. When he destroyed Smith, Smith also chose not to die, a result of the equation needing to be balanced. This created some kind of 'super anomaly'. One that allowed Smith to control the Matrix, as you've stated, and one that allowed Neo to control, to a degree, sentinals and whatnot.

In short, I believe Smith was created to counter Neo. When Neo 'chose' not to die from a fatal gunshot wound, the Architect had to balance that, even if unwittingly, by allowing Smith to choose not to obey deletion.

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quote:

Originally posted by Sebbish:

SPOILER ALERT: (This forum should really get one of those spoiler things, that makes writing invisible until you highlight it.)

the matrix (which is now a utopiant-type place, hence the sun and the rainbow, and the grass and the trees for the first time)

Hmmmm, according to Agent Smith in the first movie he stated to morpheus (when they had captured him) that the utopian thing was tried before but it failed so the program was changed to make the matrix what it was in first movie. Now they are going to try the Utopian thing again. I dunno the whole matrix theme sounds more like a metaphor for Bill Gates trying to develope the perfect OS.

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Hmm, those arguments sound reasonable, but there's still one inconsistency that I can't puzzle out... and that's the concept that Zion... which is in the 'real' world, NOT the Matrix... has been destroyed before.

Also, I grasp the idea that Neo is still connected to the Matrix 'wirelessly'... but the question is *how?* If there are, indeed, explanations for other *ambiguities* then there has to be a reasonable explanation for this as well. I doubt it's some sort of telepathy or mental projection... which sounds a little too unreasonable. Then there's the scene where real world Neo is fighting the possessed Smith-guy in the real world, for a moment, Neo's Matrix-skills 'turned-on.'

I still think the 'real world' is also encompassed by a Matrix. Perhaps it's the less perfect world we've heard about... not the virtual Matrix world we think it is.

Again and again, the question is... how could Zion, in the real world, have been destroyed before?

But that raises another idea... the game claims that everyone in Zion, but one person, had been killed. Could the game have taken place, itself, in a previous version of the Matrix?

Aia, my head hurts.

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quote:

Originally posted by Scrivener:

Again and again, the question is... how could Zion, in the real world, have been destroyed before?

In Matrix2, the Architect tells Neo that when he chooses the door on Neo's right, it will reinsert the "code he is carrying" into the main program and he will be allowed to choose 23 (?) people to start Zion over again, 16 females, 7 males. More females because of the gene pool necessary to restart the city without birth defects.

The Architect also states that they have become "quite efficient at it," namely, destroying Zion. After they destroy it, the One picks his peeps and they start it up again, with no knowledge of the previous Zion.

This all must take place in order to control the anomalies that develop in a system that is programmed with choice. Programmed with choice because people keep waking up otherwise.

quote:

Also, I grasp the idea that Neo is still connected to the Matrix 'wirelessly'... but the question is *how?*

Neo asks the Oracle the same question. She states that the power of the one goes all the way to the source. It's not a human connection, it's a mechanical connection. Neo's a laptop connected wirelessly to the mainframe, which has established a link with that hole in the back of his neck.

quote:

Then there's the scene where real world Neo is fighting the possessed Smith-guy in the real world, for a moment, Neo's Matrix-skills 'turned-on.'

If you recall from the first movie, Neo tells Morpheus, "I know kung-fu." The hole in his necks allows humans to now download knowledge directly to the human brain. In the Matrix, Neo knows how to fight because he knows how in the real world.

quote:

Could the game have taken place, itself, in a previous version of the Matrix?

I haven't played the game yet, but it's absolutely possible.

quote:

Aia, my head hurts.

Alas, but a good hurt to be sure. I just watched it again and I like it even more now. It makes more sense. I understand now that the Oracle never died. The little girl is just a little girl. I claim that this movie, like good literature, needs to be rigorously analyzed to fully enjoy it.

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Zion had been destroyed 5 times prior to the ending. Each Neo had chosen to go through the door on the right, back to the source. It was there that he was to choose 27 people from the Matrix to be unplugged and rebuild Zion.

From the Machines point of view this was like a farmer fertilizing the soil so more crops can be grown. Since the machines depended on crops of humans, it was only a matter of time before the process of cloning would reach a limit before needing a fresh infusion of DNA. Nature has a way of replenishing all things, therefore a few generations of people in Zion, born the old fashioned way would fix the inevitable degradation in DNA cloning.

The entire storyline seems to be a parody of our life on this little grain of sand floating in the cosmos. In essence we are all slaves to code. Whether it be the code of life buried in our DNA or the constant stream of codes that our governing bodies throw at us every day in their attempt to control us. men with power or the delusion therof scare the hell outta me. Our lifespan is way too short to be too damned serious about anything. In my brief time on this rock I have told more than one so called "go-getter" to chill out and get a life. usually to my detriment. But I couldn't care less who dies with the most toys. Can't take them with you. so they won't help you a bit in the next plane of existence.

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