jamotto Posted March 16, 2005 Report Share Posted March 16, 2005 Link quote:By Philip Pullella ROME (Reuters) - A top Catholic cardinal has blasted "The Da Vinci Code" as a "gross and absurd" distortion of history and said Catholic bookstores should take the bestseller off their shelves because it is full of "cheap lies." Cardinal Tarcisio Bertone, in an interview with the Milan newspaper Il Giornale, became the highest ranking Italian Churchman to speak out against the book, an international blockbuster that has sold millions of copies. "(It) aims to discredit the Church and its history through gross and absurd manipulations," Bertone, the archbishop of the northern Italian city of Genoa and a close friend of Pope John Paul told the paper in its Monday edition. "This seems like a throwback to the old anti-clerical pamphlets of the 1800s," he said. The central claim of the book, written by American Dan Brown, is that Jesus married Mary Magdalene and had children. The Bible says Jesus never married, was crucified and rose from the dead. Bertone's comments were significant because until the Pope named him archbishop of Genoa in 2003 he was for years the number two man at the Vatican (news - web sites)'s most powerful department - the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith. "You can find that book everywhere and the risk is that many people who read it believe that those fairy tales are real," he said. "I think I have the responsibility to clear things up to unmask the cheap lies contained in books like that." A central storyline of the book is that the Holy Grail is not the cup which Christ is said to have used at the Last Supper but really the bloodline descended from Jesus and Mary Magdalene. Bertone calls this idea "a perversion." Bertone is so incensed about the novel that he will be the key speaker at a roundtable in Genoa Wednesday night attempting to dismantle the book, which also accuses the Church of covering up the female role in Christianity. "I will try to clear things up and help form consciences," the cardinal said. "I think that when faced with affirmations that are so shameful and unfounded, readers who have even a minimum of basic (Christian) formation should react," he said. He said it was "sad" that even Catholic bookstores were selling The Da Vinci Code "for purely economic reasons." One bookstore selling "The Da Vinci Code" is the one in the Gemelli Hospital, a Catholic institution where the Pope spent a total of 28 days in two stints in February and March. In the interview, Bertone firmly rejected the book's claim that the feminine role in Christianity had been suppressed. "This is one of the most vulgar of inventions. The feminine element is present in all the Gospels," Bertone said. Bertone also strongly defended Opus Dei, the conservative Church organization that the book depicts as a ruthless, Machiavellian group that resorts even to murder in its attempt to keep the Church's secrets hidden. The novel is going to reach an even wider audience next year with the release of a film based on the book staring Tom Hanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Hellbinder[CE] Posted March 16, 2005 Report Share Posted March 16, 2005 Even as much as I totally dislike the Roman Catholic Church. I totally agree that the "davinci code" is a complete bunch of Rubbish. Some fool looks at a painting long after it was painted and decides he sees a woman instead of a man and bases his wacky view on a whole bunch of old wives tales that cropped up hundreds of years after the origional Tradition. Silly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supreme Cmdr Posted March 19, 2005 Report Share Posted March 19, 2005 quote:Originally posted by Hellbinder: Even as much as I totally dislike the Roman Catholic Church. I totally agree that the "davinci code" is a complete bunch of Rubbish.well uhm, isn't that why its fiction? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LostInSpace Posted March 19, 2005 Report Share Posted March 19, 2005 In my opionion the catholic church is affraid, they are seeing their worst nightmare come true. For some time the issues raised in the Da Vinci Code was more or less an underground thing. But with this book, it has brought some of these ideas (which have been around for a very long) to the masses. This, however, has been discussed in another thread: Whose fault was it? Romans Or Jews. The first link I posted in that thread is dead use the second one. A little off topic: SC that line that begins that thread I linked to still makes me LMAO "I don't really care. I simply moved this over here so that Jaguar and his band of merry men can impale themselves.". Ah, classic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supreme Cmdr Posted March 20, 2005 Report Share Posted March 20, 2005 quote:Originally posted by LostInSpace: A little off topic: SC that line that begins that thread I linked to still makes me LMAO "I don't really care. I simply moved this over here so that Jaguar and his band of merry men can impale themselves.". Ah, classic. hehe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 20, 2005 Report Share Posted March 20, 2005 quote:Originally posted by Hellbinder: Even as much as I totally dislike the Roman Catholic Church. I totally agree that the "davinci code" is a complete bunch of Rubbish. Some fool looks at a painting long after it was painted and decides he sees a woman instead of a man and bases his wacky view on a whole bunch of old wives tales that cropped up hundreds of years after the origional Tradition. Silly. First off, the davinci code is a work of fiction, 2nd of all, a lot of the information within it has been hidden from the masses for quite a while. If at least some of it was NOT true, why would the Roman Catholic Church be freaking out about it? By freaking out, they have shown that it scares them, a piece of fiction? Come on, give me a break. That ought to give you the first clue that it scares them to death. Well, if a fiction book might get you caught in a 2000 year old scam, I guess that I'd be a little freaked out as well...LOL quote: Originally posted by Supreme Commander quote: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Originally posted by LostInSpace: A little off topic: SC that line that begins that thread I linked to still makes me LMAO "I don't really care. I simply moved this over here so that Jaguar and his band of merry men can impale themselves.". Ah, classic. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- hehe Oh yeah, ya gotta love it....LOL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trenth00 Posted March 20, 2005 Report Share Posted March 20, 2005 Hellbinder? Hello? Where's your witty retort; I have a slow day of work to pass along. I know this is repetitious but, IT'S FICTION!! Yes, it does have factual basis-read the pages before the first chapter; they tell you what is fact and what is not. The fact (in the novel)that Jesus and Mary M. were 'married with children' is not listed as a fact here in the real world. Besides all the good Cardinal is doing by whining like a little girl about a (again, read this part very carefully) FICTIONAL NOVEL, ok, one more time: FICTIONAL NOVEL, is giving Mr. Brown and his publishers some free advertising and enticing more people to check the book out. I am sure an omnipotent being can look out for his/her own well being without the help of a cardinal or you or me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeepFreeze Posted March 20, 2005 Report Share Posted March 20, 2005 You are 100% correct, Murphy. I am going to go out and buy this book after I finish Atlas Shrugged (which I haven't even opened) for my English midterm (yes, a midterm in late march). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 20, 2005 Report Share Posted March 20, 2005 quote:Originally posted by DeepFreeze: You are 100% correct, Murphy. I am going to go out and buy this book after I finish Atlas Shrugged (which I haven't even opened) for my English midterm (yes, a midterm in late march). Atlas Shrugged? Excellent book, oh yes, read it and read it well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeepFreeze Posted March 21, 2005 Report Share Posted March 21, 2005 That's what I've been told. My mother swears it is the best book she has ever read, though I'm beginning to think I'm insane for trying to read a 1200 page book in 1 month. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 21, 2005 Report Share Posted March 21, 2005 Come on DeepFreeze, I finished Atlas Shrugged in 3 days, and that was just on smoke breaks. My wife finished it almost as quickly. LOL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeepFreeze Posted March 21, 2005 Report Share Posted March 21, 2005 Well, I don't consider myself to be a slow reader. I read faster than most people I know, but I do know a few people who can read almost rediculously fast. I've always wanted to be like them, and I've even checked out a couple books from the local library on speed reading and how to read faster (reading a book on how to read if that makes any sense) but it just hasn't caught on. This one book I read basically told you to draw imaginary grid-lines down and across the page, cutting it into boxes, and reading each "box." That was just stupid. The next book I read basically said "Widen your peripheral vision." I guess that makes sense, but the biggest problem I have is that when I read, I naturally hear it in my mind as if the narator were speaking the sentence, so I inherently slow my reading pace down to as if I were speaking. When I don't do that, I can go really fast, but I have to concentrate so hard on it that I miss half of what it is that I'm reading. It took me a bit under 20 minutes to finish chapter 1. Most interesting. It has an interesting take on rediculous bureaucracy and the fear of making decisions. Sadly enough, I know a lot of companies that run this way. Oh wait, I'm getting off topic. My bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 21, 2005 Report Share Posted March 21, 2005 quote:Originally posted by DeepFreeze: Well, I don't consider myself to be a slow reader. I read faster than most people I know, but I do know a few people who can read almost rediculously fast. I've always wanted to be like them, and I've even checked out a couple books from the local library on speed reading and how to read faster (reading a book on how to read if that makes any sense) but it just hasn't caught on. This one book I read basically told you to draw imaginary grid-lines down and across the page, cutting it into boxes, and reading each "box." That was just stupid. The next book I read basically said "Widen your peripheral vision." I guess that makes sense, but the biggest problem I have is that when I read, I naturally hear it in my mind as if the narator were speaking the sentence, so I inherently slow my reading pace down to as if I were speaking. When I don't do that, I can go really fast, but I have to concentrate so hard on it that I miss half of what it is that I'm reading. It took me a bit under 20 minutes to finish chapter 1. Most interesting. It has an interesting take on rediculous bureaucracy and the fear of making decisions. Sadly enough, I know a lot of companies that run this way. Oh wait, I'm getting off topic. My bad. I changed the subject actually, not you...LOL And yes, I read rather quickly, I was Dyslexic in the 1st grade, and my teacher was a specialist in Dyslexia. She taught me to read correctly and I took it from there. I have been reading at least 3 books a week for the past 35 years. You ought to see my paperback collection, around 2500 books and counting. I usually read a book every 2 days, I am going to wear my poor PDA out. I have a 256 meg SD card just for my E-books, and it is about half full. Read the WHOLE Honor Harrington series in under 2 weeks. and a number of others as well, rereading the seires 1632 by Eric Flint, just bought the E-book version of 1634 the Gallileo affair. Interesting series. I am the fastest reader that I know. My wife is almost as fast, probably one of the reasons I married her. Anyway, now that I have taken this thread totally off the subject, I bought a copy of the Devinci affair, and also have it in .lit format for my PDA. Fascinating, he took some liberties, but it is fiction after all, but a lot of it is a lot closer to the truth then most people realize. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supreme Cmdr Posted March 21, 2005 Report Share Posted March 21, 2005 quote:Originally posted by DeepFreeze: You are 100% correct, Murphy. I am going to go out and buy this book after I finish Atlas Shrugged (which I haven't even opened) for my English midterm (yes, a midterm in late march). Get the new illustrated version. Its easier reading - especially if can't finish Atlas Shrugged in under a week. ...and can you fan(atics) not derail the thread please? Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest DocHoliday Posted March 22, 2005 Report Share Posted March 22, 2005 Okay my point of view. Frankly, I think the Church (or rather the distinguished Cardinal) is blowing this way out of proportion. It is a movie and it is fiction and there will ALWAYS be people who believe it to be a documentary or reconstruction of past.. It's their choice, but I bet that's the least of their problems. Ignorance is bliss If this behaviour is acceptable tho (but reminds me of witch hunts), then please by all means let all of us bash Xena, Hercules, Alexander, Troy .. and all the rest beacuse most of it is full of BS and splendid but totally made up cinematics which have little to do with historical facts... And continue with movies like Armageddon, Star Wars, and most others because they blatantly ignore laws of physics. And to uphold the good moral standards of the Churct let us impale movies like Bitter Moon, Eyes Wide Shut, American Beauty, Closer,.... oh and let's not forget Bruce Almighty. I mean what's next, FEMALE CHINESE CHRISTIAN GOD? (I'm being sarcastic of course) See me point? It never ends. Besides, it's not like the Church can PROVE anything.. If they produce the Holy Grail, an authentic picture of God and possibly forensic evidence that Jesus actually rose from the dead I will forever hold my piece, until then, we all have the right to freely doubt anything we please. A pal of mine has a completely credible theory about Jesus, that involves aliens and their skills of genetic engineering (how Jesus came about), laser surgery (how he performed his miracles), hallucinogenic drugs (for various group visions) and heavy tranquilizers (to simulate death and make the resurrection seem real).. I think he is nuts, but I he can't believe what he wants. Thanks for the link and article tho. It made me Cheers, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trenth00 Posted March 22, 2005 Report Share Posted March 22, 2005 Dude, blowing things out of proportion is the church's sole (no pun intended;) function. They do it anytime something threatens their control over their flock. As a christian, it sickens me to no end. Thankfully many of us have evolved spiritually and do not need religion (or the church) to touch God...all it takes is some high grade hallucinogens jk But I will say this: Spirituality and the unkown is all about faith, not proof. Proof is for p@$&%y's. If you need proof there is something beyond your senses then, "all you touch and all you see is all your life will ever be". The issue of proof is why churches react they way they do; they provide their followers with 'proof' if you can call it that. Doc you make a good point; why bother imagining anything at all if it doesn't fit into the schema of established religion...or anyone's schema for that matter. There's a simple solution I think all people and organizations of people can benefit from: IF YOU DON'T F$%@&G LIKE IT, DON'T F#@%&$G READ/WATCH/LISTEN TO IT!! 'Duuuhhhhh, I've got a wooden spoon...duuuuuhhhhh' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 22, 2005 Report Share Posted March 22, 2005 quote: Proof is for p@$&%y's. Said by a true religious person. I am NOT religious, NOT by a long shot, and why am I not religious, because Faith is for ...... Faith is what happens when you haven't got a clue, and don't want one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trenth00 Posted March 22, 2005 Report Share Posted March 22, 2005 Touche! What a great debate this could be. I obviously miscommunicated several things. I'd respond and sort them out but I don't want to get booted for being off topic (religious persecution of art, right?). Can we start a thread in the Religion arena? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Trotter Posted March 22, 2005 Report Share Posted March 22, 2005 The church is certainly not without faults and yes they have long benfited from the ignorance of some of its followers, but the retort was done for one reason that I can see...There are a lot of STUPID PEOPLE out there so taken in by pop culture they are blind to any truth! They are the folks who think wrestling is real, write letters to tv characters,etc...they believe evrything they see on tv and read so they need to be told " Dude this is not real" In the age of Wag the Dog and Weapons of Mass destruction people need an instruction manual for thier own feeble brains. Not to say there arent elements of truth in this crappy book, but hell there are elements of truth in "Congo" that dont make it a documentary! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cc Posted March 22, 2005 Report Share Posted March 22, 2005 quote:Faith is what happens when you haven't got a clue, and don't want one.I'm probably no more religious than Jag, but as usual don't agree with the statement.For some,their Faith is all they have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 23, 2005 Report Share Posted March 23, 2005 quote:Originally posted by Cc: quote:Faith is what happens when you haven't got a clue, and don't want one.I'm probably no more religious than Jag, but as usual don't agree with the statement.For some,their Faith is all they have. I was being sarcastic CC.... Without Religion, there would be some people out there that would be TOTALLY out of control. We need religion, to keep the crazies under control, and to give others something to live for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cc Posted March 23, 2005 Report Share Posted March 23, 2005 quote:I was being sarcastic CC....Sorry.....kinda hard to tell... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest DocHoliday Posted March 23, 2005 Report Share Posted March 23, 2005 I'm totally with Jaguar on this. I'm not religious, but I do appreciate the gap it fills. Some people just NEED a higher authority like God or Jesus or Buddha or whatchemacallit Otherwise all would be allowed. Faith or hope is a powerful instrument but so often manipulated the whole idea is starting to lose value... As for ingorant and naive people: the problem doesn't lie with the film industry, nor is it the duty of church to root out the "evil" industry.. The problem lies with education, opportunities to get in touch with other cultures.. things like that. If you don't know history, and you never get a chance to see what the rest of the world looks like, TV reality is the only thing you have... So the Cardinal (as honorable as his intentions might be) is barking up the wrong tree.. as is basically also anyone who reacts to his accusations Cheers, Doc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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