Kerry - Treason?

[street228]

the funny part is, I spent 6 years in the military myself. and am trying to converse while doing a rather technical job.(I am at work). If I appear distressed, not to worry, I take all things in stride. My only reason for the harshness of my responses, is that which is dealt to me, i give in return. I am still laughing, (as are my technician team here)wish you were here!

[Guest $iLk]

Glad to see you rounded up your Prozac

quote:

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A) Regardless of your interpretation, or the Bush administration's interpretation, that the terms of the cease-fire were broken. That does NOT mean that was the case. There are many credible people who can equally state, that it was not the case. And because, the UN submitted to it, does not mean it was CORRECT. It only means, we got away with it for the time being, at the expense of alienating many of our allies. THERFORE: the great division throughout this country, and the world, concerning the whole escapade.

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I believe it's already been determined that Iraq was in breach of the resolution. What hasn't been determined is locations of "stockpiles of WMD" that the media is looking for. The difference being - whether or not the stockpiles are found - it was a legal invasion.

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b)Saddams only true terrorist ties, are the misrepresentation of the word terrorist. When people of any country fought against an oppressor, or an invading army,(in the past) They were designated as FREEDOM FIGHTERS, or patriots. Now they are TERRORIST. I am truly sorry your not old enough to have been around and know what the real definition of those words are. There are other words which have new definitions today, as well. I am old enough to remember.

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So do you believe that the Iraqi's who murdered the security detail of the food convoys yesterday, drug their bodies through the streets, and hung them from a bridge are freedom fighters?

I mean seriously - the Iraqis are being given a freedom of government, and self-rule rather than dictatorship... how could you possibly argue that point?

Or are you trying to call the foreign fighters I pointed out "Freedom Fighters"? I believe that when I see car bombs exploding in civilian areas - that's called terrorism.

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Just as any Judgement, concerning any legal issue: interpretation of the law is up to the Judge, and NOT the dictionary.

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But I thought Bush was guilty? According to WE THE PEOPLE (i.e. yourself)

In addition to the Arab League, Kuwait, etc. - all your Euroweenie friends were there. Even Canada was there.

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I am sure you are, as that seems to be your REAL intention

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My real intention has been to force you to take a prozac and actually THINK for your arguments. Read some old debates between myself Jag and Menchise... we could go for hours and hours in circles with that clever little commie.

This is the first coherent argument I've seen you post in this topic. Congrats

[Guest $iLk]

Oh and Race:

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Street you are wasting your time. You will plant no flags here. Thier beleifs like are intransigent. It makes no sense to discuss a subject with someone who has already made up his mind on this and every other subject. They will pick what they consider the weakest paert of your argument out and then drown you with a post long enough to choke Vanessa Del Rio. They will quote right wing idealogues as bearers of truth and demonize anyone who disagrees as a traitor or a fool. Thier intent is to flabbergast you long enough to keep your eyes from the truth, or frustrate you to the point of hysterics.

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Give me some credit Race - you'll note that I picked apart his ENTIRE posts. If part of a post makes sense I'll usually point it out and agree - but street needn't worry about planting flags with the h00t of a laugh most of his posts have been.

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Take a break, have a beer have sex or something but dont give them the satisfaction.

$ilk, I meant no disrepect to ANYONE who has served thier country under fire, but Bush dont fall in that category and Kerry does. Why turn to conspiracy theories just cause the truth doesnt suit you? Oh I forgot that tactic number 26 in the "Karl Rove, you too can be a Republican handbook!" I'll pass on the book and wait for the movie, which I hear will be "Wag The Dog II: The Dog Bites Back"

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I still don't understand why Bush's military service should be an issue with you - considering that Bush doesn't blabber about how much he fought for his country.

John Kerry's wouldn't have been an issue - if he didn't bring it up every time he makes a speech.

Like I said before - if he has to point to 4 months of questionable service in the hope that it'll overshadow 19 years of questionable votes in the senate... I'm beside myself with laughter at who the DNC picked to bear the torch.

Race your opinions tend to be well received by me for the most part considering that I would never figure you for an ideologue. You are a good man, with a decent enough beef with the RNC that I can respect. I just can't agree with your decision to turn to the DNC to fix things.

K - guys I'm heading home... gave me something to do during the day while files were transferring.

[street228]

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This is the first coherent argument I've seen you post in this topic. Congrats

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You have to make valid points...FIRST.

personally, I must say though, your position ,no matter how much you believe to be right, is the stand which has divided this country to the very core. Amd those who accept the Bush administration style foriegn and domestic practice, Are accepting the very Ideals, which the NAZI party was based,prior and upon the ELECTION of good ole ADOLF. I really DREAD to see where this may go, if he serves a second term.

Believe what you must, and do what you will. It will be OUR children and grandchildren who will pay the ultimate price.

have a nice day

[Guest $iLk]

Could you please make a valid statement as opposed to equating the Bush administration with the Hitler administration? Now if you'll excuse me, I must read Fox News and Mein Kampf whilst goose-stepping to bed to go watch a movie or something

BTW I love Bush 43's foreign policy. UN, Europe be damned - considering that common sense tells you that they don't really care what is in our best interests.

And if my children have to live in a world that would be dominated by DNC platform talking points... here's hoping they turn out to be those "freedom fighters" you love.

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You have to make valid points...FIRST.

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Are you the only one that DOESN'T read your posts after you slap the add reply button?

You post incoherent dribble - don't bother to proofread, come back later and seem aghast at all the people attacking your "obviously" superior position... which if you read over your posts, I thought you were 12 years old at first.

And believe me - it's not just me that sees it. I'm willing to debate logically - but my ludicrous statements have only been in response to ludicrous statements - which I've pointed out every time. The biggest thing that makes me smile - is the fact that you post one non-supported statement as truth - I post 3 - 5 facts attacking it, and you ignore it and start cries of "NAZI!" and pretend like I didn't say anything... eventually you either accept truth or continue endlessly plugging your ears and saying LALALALALALA

[Guest]

Why did we go into Iraq?

1: 17 UN resolutions broken, and none of them enforced. The UN was a laughing stock to Saddam.

2: The Cease fire that Saddam signed at the end of the Gulf war had been broken by him NUMEROUS times.

3: The continued laughing in the face of inspectors, who were looking for and destroying WMD's. The cat and mouse games that he would play with them. They would want to inspect a site, he would delay for 24 hours, long enough to move any incriminating evidence and the weapons themselves.

4: The continued harassment and killing of Kurds, the continued secret police raids and arrests of insurgents or ANYONE, INCLUDING children that disagreed with his regime.

5: The continued financial support of Palestinian homicide bombers, 10K dollars to their families.

6: Continued financial support and training of other terrorist groups, including Al Quaeda.

7: The continuing manufacture and research into nuclear weapons technology. Which was found during a search of one of the scientists houses. He lead searchers to a rose bush behind his house, where he had buried ALL his technical papers etc. Never heard about that in the mainstream press did you?

8: the moving of WMD's out of the country, mainly into Syria, where it is estimated that at least 70% of the weapons that he admitted to having were moved, the other 30% having been destroyed by the UN inspectors. Plus whatever other weapons he may have had deployed that were never even counted, and those that he was able to create after the inspectors left, and before the invasion.

9: Orders to ground commanders to launch chemical and biological weapons at American troops once they reached the outskirts of Baghdad, orders that were never followed through by those same commanders. The water of the Tigris is STILL polluted with those discarded weapons, which they tossed into the river before our troops were able to get into the city. Never heard about that in the mainstream press either.

10: His continued buying abroad of high tech equipment for the making of nuclear weapons, centrifuges etc, that are still unaccounted for, some have been found, but most are still MIA.

11: We are still searching for 3 Iraqi cargo ships that have literally disapeared. Cargos unknown, destination unknown. Intelligence believes that they were loaded with as much WMD's as were left, and any and all Nuclear material etc that Iraq had. They are probably still at sea, or hidden at some port under false names etc. Never heard about that in the mainstream press either.

Those are just 11 reasons that we invaded Iraq, MAIN one being this. Iraq helped and financed and trained about 50% of the terrorist groups around the world. By taking out Saddam, we cut their financial throats. Also, Syria, Iran, North Korea, Libya and others have all fallen into line. You may not like the way we did it, but it sure as hell got results.

Pussyfooting around with terrorists, bombing a training camp, or taking out an aspirin factory does NOTHING to them, it only emboldens them. When they attack and we leave, it emboldens them.

When they attack, and then we destroy the governments that sponsor them, THAT has an effect, Lock down ALL their financial support, confiscate their assets etc, THAT has an effect. Pinpoint violence, WAR, has an even greater effect on them. It has pretty much cut Al Quaeda to the bone, they may be able to play footsy with us, but at least they are doing it in Iraq and NOT here at home.

By attacking Iraq, Bush has set our full military might down upon these guys. This is NOT a police action, this is not dispensing justice and sending them to jail. This is war, where if you shoot, we KILL you.

The war on terrorism is just that, a WAR, and police are not the ones to fight a war, the military is. And that is EXACTLY what Bush has done. Declared war on ALL terrorists.

If you kill civilians in order to create political change, you are a terrorist, and will be dealt with from the business end of a gun, not blind justice.

It is working by the way, we have not had ANY major terrorist attacks within the continental US since 911. Many have been tried, and ALL have failed, and the perpetrators either A: killed or B: are in federal custody. Haven't heard that in the mainstream press either have you?

[Guest]

quote:

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Originally posted by street:

quote:

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This is the first coherent argument I've seen you post in this topic. Congrats

---

You have to make valid points...FIRST.

personally, I must say though, your position ,no matter how much you believe to be right, is the stand which has divided this country to the very core. Amd those who accept the Bush administration style foriegn and domestic practice, Are accepting the very Ideals, which the NAZI party was based,prior and upon the ELECTION of good ole ADOLF. I really DREAD to see where this may go, if he serves a second term.

Believe what you must, and do what you will. It will be OUR children and grandchildren who will pay the ultimate price.

have a nice day

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If Kerry is elected, it will INDEED be our children and Grandchildren that pay the ultimate price. It will also be us. The terrorists will become emboldened, because the REAL person who kicked their butts is gone, and another pussyfooter PC basketcase will be in office, who will deal with terrorism by leaving when we are attacked and giving in, because they are angry with us, and therefore if we leave, they won't be mad anymore. WRONG answer.

It will beour children and grandchildren that pay the price with their lives as they are blown up in our cities as the terrorists move back into the United States and start their killing again.

I don't know about you, but I like it that my children can go downtown and not worry about some suicide bomber blowing himself up in the middle of a crowded marketplace. If Kerry is elected, within 6 months, the terrorists will strike again, and continue to strike as Kerry tries not to offend them and make them angry.

Oh, and he will ALSO DESTROY our economy with a 900 BILLION dollar tax increase. This country has too little time left as it is, I don't want Kerry in there tossing coal on the fire.

[James Kerr]

wow....

[Guest Remo Williams]

Well said Jaguar, It sends a shiver up my spine to think of Kerry in the white house.

[Kalshion]

God, everytime Jaguar makes valid points it scares the freaks out me *shivers*, expically in THIS case

Cause I'll have to register my shotgun and other weapons. That is of course if Kerry is elected

[Guest $iLk]

Woke up this morning to find a slew of facts for street to dismiss as:

Baghdad Street: There is no such thing as common sense or logic... I am logic... their argumental points committed suicide by the hundreds.... The battle is very

fierce and God made me victorious. The argument continues.

Baghdad Bob agrees:

"I can assure you that those villains will recognize, will discover in appropriate time in the future how stupid they are and how they are pretending things which have never taken place"

[street228]

quote:

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Woke up this morning to find a slew of facts for street to dismiss as:

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Baghdad Street: There is no such thing as common sense or logic... I am logic... their argumental points committed suicide by the hundreds.... The battle is very

fierce and God made me victorious. The argument continues.

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I woke up this morning decided NOT to turn on the PROPAGANDA machine...how bout you?, STILL taking it all in without any doubt as to the reality of the CRAP being spoon fed to the IGNORANT. As you continue to flame me, remember this: you only reveal the TRUTH concerning your immature and misguided mentality.

Your a God D**ned Lier, just like BUSH. I dont believe we have anything further to discuss, Your not worth the wasted energy to even attempt to hold a conversation.

[ 04-02-2004, 01:57 PM: Message edited by: street ]

[Guest $iLk]

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As you continue to flame me, remember this: you only reveal the TRUTH concerning your immature and misguided mentality.

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+

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Your a God D**ned Lier, just like BUSH.

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Says all that needs to be said.

I swear it's hilarious how he accuses me of doing something right before he does it himself in every single post... all the while I can't even find an example of me doing the same thing... it's bizarre...

If you want a flame:

Are you sure you aren't 12? That would mean you've been in the military(cowboys&injuns) since you were 6? And now you're working with erector-sets or something... impressive

[Guest Remo Williams]

Ok gentlemen this is starting to get personal thats enough stay on topic please; or stop posting in this thread.

[Guest $iLk]

Yeah we've been off topic for over 2/3 of the topic... maybe one of the mods can rename it to Baghdad Street + The War in Iraq?

Seriously - I went back and read over the entire thread, and I started off asking general questions about where street was drawing his "Logical pulled from his ass Assumptions" in a very good natured way.

Every response called me a variation of:

GD Liar

Right Wing Extremist

Communist

Nazi

Idiot

Moron

Ignorant

In response I have posted some good-natured analogy to Baghdad Bob (he reminded me of him is why I drew the analogy... I haven't laughed this much since I saw the old Information Minister last year during the war)

again with the same responses. I think it can be agreed upon by most everyone that I have played the good-natured comedy club throughout most of this topic... and the only person who doesn't find it very amusing is the liberal who is calling everyone who disagrees with him a variation of the above.

All that being said - the purpose of the political forum tends to bring us into many heated debates - so I tend not to take it too seriously. street needs to take a chill pill or some prozac and relax - we are here to have fun.

Reminds me of the Politics of Desperation.

[Kevin Trotter]

Street isnt the only one who has done somename calling. I have been called a fool ,a coward , brain damaged etc..the only difference is you guys are a bit more clever. What's good for the goose is good for the gander.You have introduced the element of insult as discussion its only fair you take it like a man. Also it would be nice if one of the moderators were actually MODERATE

[Guest]

quote:

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Originally posted by street:

quote:

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Woke up this morning to find a slew of facts for street to dismiss as:

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quote:

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Baghdad Street: There is no such thing as common sense or logic... I am logic... their argumental points committed suicide by the hundreds.... The battle is very

fierce and God made me victorious. The argument continues.

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I woke up this morning decided NOT to turn on the PROPAGANDA machine...how bout you?, STILL taking it all in without any doubt as to the reality of the CRAP being spoon fed to the IGNORANT. As you continue to flame me, remember this: you only reveal the TRUTH concerning your immature and misguided mentality.

Your a God D**ned Lier, just like BUSH. I dont believe we have anything further to discuss, Your not worth the wasted energy to even attempt to hold a conversation.

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Oh and Street, those 11 points above ARE NOT Propaganda, they are true blue facts.

Documented and factual, NOTHINg propaganda like at all.

All are A: Either confirmed by our intelligence community, B: Press corps that have REAL reporters, or C: recieved directly from reliable sources in Iraq.

If you can't fight the facts, You ignore the facts, and claim that the argument is no longer worthy of your time.

Typical liberal tactic, then again, I was expecting it.

[Guest $iLk]

quote:

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Street isnt the only one who has done somename calling. I have been called a fool ,a coward , brain damaged etc..the only difference is you guys are a bit more clever. What's good for the goose is good for the gander.You have introduced the element of insult as discussion its only fair you take it like a man. Also it would be nice if one of the moderators were actually MODERATE

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C'mon Race, I haven't called you any of that. And in regards to street - besides some humorous analogy to Baghdad Bob I haven't made any personal attacks. Read over everything that has transpired, and note that I responded to his outright personal attacks with a rolling of the eyes and some quip pointing out his hypocrisy. I don't take any of this personally... I'm amused that he allowed himself to get so worked up over it.

quote:

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If you can't fight the facts, You ignore the facts, and claim that the argument is no longer worthy of your time.

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Oh Jaguar don't forget this gem!

"FOR ONE TO HEAR ONLY WHAT ONE CHOOSES TO HEAR, OR TO SEE WHAT ONE ONLY CHOOSES TO SEE IS PSYCHOTIC, TO SAY THE LEAST." - street

I've got a new avatar for you street:

[Kevin Trotter]

Jag those reasons are actually reasonable. Too bad that isnt what your boy told the people who elected him. He didnt have enought faith in the real thrust of his actions and resorted to cheap scare tactics. Flimsy links between Al Quaida and Saddam (whom they viewed as western and non spiritual) hinting at immenient risk they were reasonably sure didnt exist, implyimg the 9-11 was Saddams doing was cowardly and reprehensible.

Bush knew the country wouldnt buy the truth so he constructed a new one, like many politicians do. Also why do continue to list UN violations on one hand and blast them for being irrelevant on the other?

And what do you have a crystal ball? Are you Kreskin? How are you so sure that Kerry's election will result in the end of the Republic.?

You sound like some of my liberal freinds making the same remarks about Bush. For a patriot you show a suprising and dissappointing lack of faith in our country. We will survive Kerry or (shudder) four more years of old stay at home George. I suspect 20 years from now you'll have your surly old ass still parked in front of the keyboard imploding liberals, our country will still be great and standing tall because that is who we are.

[Kevin Trotter]

$ilk you are correct however the same cant be said for some of your ..colleagues

[Guest $iLk]

quote:

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Jag those reasons are actually reasonable. Too bad that isnt what your boy told the people who elected him. He didnt have enought faith in the real thrust of his actions and resorted to cheap scare tactics. Flimsy links between Al Quaida and Saddam (whom they viewed as western and non secular) hinting at immenient risk they were reasonably sure didnt exist, implyimg the 9-11 was Saddams doing was cowardly and reprehensible.

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Personally I think G.W. bought into the argument that most Americans are stupid. I listened to his speeches and thought it a poor way to go about making the point that had to be made - and he suffered for it in a drop of his approval rating. I didn't need to hear scare tactics - and Bush wasn't saying the things that needed said. But that doesn't mean he was wrong pursuing Iraq - it just means that he looked stupid in front of the public.

quote:

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Bush knew the country wouldnt buy the truth so he constructed a new one, like many politicians do. Also why do continue to list UN violations on one hand and blast them for being irrelevant on the other?

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It's quite simple - to illustrate the potential of the U.N. while at the same time pointing out the fatal flaws of the U.N. It was under terms specified under U.N. resolutions that the Iraq conflict ended - which was a conflict between the United States and it's allies against Iraq. Why else would the U.S. have cared about Iraq AFTER the Gulf War and not just have left it to the UN?

quote:

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$ilk you are correct however the same cant be said for some of your ..colleagues

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I don't have the available information to answer your question or query at this time... errr no comment

[Grizzle]

Seriously $ilk, enough with the slams against street, your Bahgdad Bob remarks may be funny to you and others but I think it's pretty offensive and is not in keeping with good spirited discussion.

If you want to gloat and poke fun because you think you have the upper hand, please do so quietly. Your attacks and name calling, while more subtle than streets, amount to the same damn thing.

The interesting thing about all of this banter is that the ending to the story hasn't even been written. Whether attacking Iraq turns out to be a good thing or a bad thing remains to be seen. Until then, it's all postulation.

There are two sides to EVERY story and the truth always lies somewhere in between. Words to live by.

[street228]

quote:

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If you can't fight the facts, You ignore the facts, and claim that the argument is no longer worthy of your time.

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No, Silk, YOU are not worthy of my time. The argument could be contested with no problem.

I have been slandered ENOUGH. ALL your argument entails is saying someone said something other than what they said.(and those are lies, just as I quoted, before making my call) Then you have the audacity to argue to the contrary of your own concocted statements.

Your continued slander has caused me to decide to permanantly leave the forum and you can have it..you and your friends. Enjoy your MP (you can play with yourselves) I dont need the idiotic dialog. or the ARGUMENT. Intelligent debate would have been refreshing, but THIS is rediculous. I think REMO has spoken the most intelligent. STOP the personal attacks or dont post. YOU can attack my PERSON all you choose, but the recourse brings retribution... so I will choose NOT to participate. keep feeding petting each other, Im outta here

[Guest $iLk]

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No, Silk, YOU are not worthy of my time. The argument could be contested with no problem.

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Ummm... you weren't replying to my quote.

quote:

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I have been slandered ENOUGH. ALL your argument entails is saying someone said something other than what they said.(and those are lies, just as I quoted, before making my call) Then you have the audacity to argue to the contrary of your own concocted statements.

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I think in print it's called libel... of course then how come I was quoting (CTRL-C + CTRL-V) your posts as written and responding to them as they were written if I was saying you said something other than what you said?

To be fair - if English is not your primary language simply let me know - because your command of it seemed to indicate to me that you were saying exactly what you were saying.

quote:

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Your continued slander has caused me to decide to permanantly leave the forum and you can have it..you and your friends. Enjoy your MP (you can play with yourselves) I dont need the idiotic dialog. or the ARGUMENT. Intelligent debate would have been refreshing, but THIS is rediculous. I think REMO has spoken the most intelligent. STOP the personal attacks or dont post. YOU can attack my PERSON all you choose, but the recourse brings retribution... so I will choose NOT to participate. keep feeding petting each other, Im outta here

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Yeah I think the most intelligent thing to have done would have been for you not to participate if you are going to get so worked up. Like I said - you've called me:

Idiot

Nazi

Communist

Moron

GD Liar

and various other colorful metaphors and my pulse hasn't even altered. I think that shows which one of us is more mature in this arena - regardless of age. And if you can't take satire you probably should take your disrespectful attitude and whiny behavior elsewhere. - i.e. Bush has people calling him Nazi about 300 times per minute on democraticunderground probably - but you don't see him whining like a baby and saying "screw you guys I'm going home!"

TTFN

[Kalshion]

both of you

ENOUGH ALREADY!

Even I'm in agreement that all the bashing and such needs to stop

Silk, as much as I enjoyed reading you're threads and laughing at how liberal street is, and how he won't listen or read you're posts,they do get old after awhile

Street, you need to learn when to quit. You have been beaten, Silk has presented MORE than enough facts, you have presented none and refuse to comment on stuff that Silk would like you to comment on

Street, you have insulted, and some case's threatened Silk, that is highly unacceptable. If you're incapible of accepting the facts as they are then DO NOT reply!

If you're continuous bashing and insulting of Silk continues I won't hesitate to request that you be banned from this board. I am tired of you're ******** and crap and name calling

[ 04-02-2004, 08:19 PM: Message edited by: Jaguar ]