The one china policy

[Guest $iLk]

Terryaki chicken is good!

[Grizzle]

Extra spicy Szechuan Beef is the best!

mmmm....now I'm hungry.

[Charles Lindsey]

Thank you for continuing this in this thread GOA3000AD.

[light_gemini]

Mmmh, do we need to be a little rude? Comunism as an idea is not as bad as a disease.I think theres no need to offend anyone,thought comunism as it is applied by governements should be removed from earth.

And GOA3000AD, this is not a matter of who owns this forum.This forum has rules,lots of people found that rules execessive or rude,but it works very well thanks to this rules.As long as you follow them you can express all your ideas freely.

BTW,welcome to the forums

[LostInSpace]

Don't mean to throw this thread off subject again but can you guys go the CPA web site CPA and look at the picture with the article "Bush, Blair Welcome U.N. Special Envoy Proposals on Iraq". Am I going mad or does that picture look like Blair is doing the devil horns on Bush?

[Guest]

quote:

---

Originally posted by GhostPilot:

Mmmh, do we need to be a little rude? Comunism as an idea is not as bad as a disease.I think theres no need to offend anyone,thought comunism as it is applied by governements should be removed from earth.

And GOA3000AD, this is not a matter of who owns this forum.This forum has rules,lots of people found that rules execessive or rude,but it works very well thanks to this rules.As long as you follow them you can express all your ideas freely.

BTW,welcome to the forums

---

Communism and Socialism are indeed diseases, they are actually even worse then that, they are more of a cancer then anything else. Unless such stupidity can be excised from the host country early, then the cancer will spread, just as Socialism has done in Europe, Canada, and yes, ALAS in the United States. The cancer spreads, and destroys the host as it was originally, and you have a behemoth that is nothing but a tumour on the society that it is part of, then that tumour grows until it self destructs, taking the society with it.

Economically it will eat away at it's host until there is nothing left, and that is EXACTLY what Communism and socialism do.

They are diseases, that must be excised before they destroy us. In most cases it is already terminal and too late, only drastic measures will save the US at this point. For Europe, and Canada, it is already too late, and if China accelerates it's domestic free economy plans, it may indeed save itself, but I find that unlikely as the communists will be proven wrong if it succeeds, therefore it cannot be allowed to succeed.

within most of our lifetimes we shall see the self destruction of most of the worlds powerful economies, the question is, will we learn from our mistakes, or will history again repeat itself?

All because of the diseases/Cancer of socialism and communism.

Those 2 ideas have killed more people in this century then all of the other wars put together in ALL of our history.

You heard right, more people have died because of the stupidity of communism and socialism then have died in ALL the wars in all of human history.

Interesting Link although I would put the death tolls at about 2 1/2 times that, or close to 1/4 of a BILLION people either killed directly through murder or died of starvation and other factors directly resulting from Communist and socialist policies.

[ 04-18-2004, 02:05 PM: Message edited by: Jaguar ]

[Wolferz]

quote:

---

Originally posted by LostInSpace:

Don't mean to throw this thread off subject again but can you guys go the CPA web site

CPA

and look at the picture with the article

"Bush, Blair Welcome U.N. Special Envoy Proposals on Iraq"

. Am I going mad or does that picture look like Blair is doing the devil horns on Bush?

---

Looks more like Rabbit ears to me LOL, Maybe Mr Blair is trying to tune in a better picture for Mr Bush.

[Guest]

quote:

---

Originally posted by LostInSpace:

Don't mean to throw this thread off subject again but can you guys go the CPA web site

CPA

and look at the picture with the article

"Bush, Blair Welcome U.N. Special Envoy Proposals on Iraq"

. Am I going mad or does that picture look like Blair is doing the devil horns on Bush?

---

Well, unless blairs fingers are a lot thicker then a normal humans, I would have to say that those are most likely flagpoles in the background behind Bush that gave you that impression.

If those are Blairs fingers, then they are at least 12 inches long and 2 inches in diameter.

[Wolferz]

Might I suggest a little educational material in regard to Taiwan and the PRC....

World Fact Book

From what I have gleaned from that website,

Reunification of Taiwan with mainland China is a subject best left to the people of Taiwan to decide. Not the PRC, or the United States, or anyone else on this planet.

The united States has no formal relation with Taiwan's government, nor are there reciprocal embassies between the two.

The PRC has been making steady progress toward a market society and away from the Russian style of Socialism. They absolutely had to do this or risk the same implosion as the USSR.

Therefore I am of the opinion that an aggressive action by the PRC to reclaim Taiwan would only prove to be counter productive, and I think the leaders in the PRC are intelligent enough to see that the outcome of such an action would not be in the best interest of either entity. Not because of fear of retaliation from the United States.

Uncle Sam has spent far too much of our money, blood, and resources to continue sticking his nose into other peoples business. Money that would be better spent caring for the military veterans of past wars, upgrading the pay rates for current military personnel, education, paying down the national debt, repairing the Social Security System, revamping the tax codes, etc. etc ad nausea.( I misspelled Nauseum on purpose because just thinking about this garbage makes me ill).

The following is off topic, but I think it needs to be said...................................

There are many fine, intelligent people from all over the globe who inhabit this forum. Most with open minds to differing points of view.

Can a person command respect from others if they show no respect for others?

Let us not disrespect anyone's views with fiery passions of our own views in the effort to win a debate. This form of action only serves to lower and debase all of us. If the mind holding an opposing view leaves this place, and no longer shares their wisdom, then we are all lessened by that departure.

My Father taught me that...

" It's what you learn "after you know it all" that counts!"

To this day I am still learning.

I won't name any names, but.... I think you know who you are.

Some of you need to go back to school instead of talking out of it.

Keep the childish name calling behind your teeth or fingers as it were, where it belongs please.

I know it's exceedingly easy to let this slip, behind the anonymity of your monitor and a digital signal. I am guilty of it myself.

Stop and think, Is it something you would say when face to face with a stranger and risk losing some teeth?

[Charles Lindsey]

I sorta like GOA3000AD. He's been mostly polite if opinionated.

I found this link http://www.taiwandc.org/history.htm which has the following.

quote:

---

The date 17 April 1995 marked the 100th anniversary of the Treaty of Shimonoseki, in which China ceded its sovereignty over Taiwan in perpetuity. The Treaty was signed in April 1895, at the end of the Sino-Japanese War of 1894, in which the modernized Japanese imperial army defeated the antiquated Chinese Ching dynasty army.

---

Seems Taiwan has been independent for over a hundred years.

If China reforms and Taiwan wishes to re-unite then fine. If China wishes to forcefully (re) absorb Taiwan then not fine.

[Guest]

quote:

---

Reunification of Taiwan with mainland China is a subject best left to the people of Taiwan to decide. Not the PRC, or the United States, or anyone else on this planet.

---

The Taiwanese people have already made this abundantly clear, they do not and will not agree to reunification with Mainland China and the PRC.

quote:

---

The united States has no formal relation with Taiwan's government, nor are there reciprocal embassies between the two.

---

we do not have embassies because of our socalled One China policy, once the Iraqi thing is dealt with, you may be in for a bit of a surprise in that respect. We do have informal relations with the government of Taiwan and have guaranteed that we would come to thier defense in the case of an invasion from the mainland. So formal or informal it comes to the same thing.

We have a defense pact with them and will keep our word with that.

quote:

---

The PRC has been making steady progress toward a market society and away from the Russian style of Socialism. They absolutely had to do this or risk the same implosion as the USSR.

Therefore I am of the opinion that an aggressive action by the PRC to reclaim Taiwan would only prove to be counter productive, and I think the leaders in the PRC are intelligent enough to see that the outcome of such an action would not be in the best interest of either entity. Not because of fear of retaliation from the United States.

---

The Chinese are doing extremely well with thier socalled open market society, but at the same time the central controls exist. The fact of the matter is that Tienaman square was just the beginning, if the Communists do not soon start to share power with other parties, they will have a revolution on their hands whether they continue on their open market society deal or not.

Also, all exports from China have an export tax on them, so if you build product within China, you pay the government 17% of that cost in taxes, almost 50% of those taxes are going DIRECTLY into China's military machine, and China, once it has enough cash, machinery and military might, will begin it's expansionism again. This is why Clintons deals with China were terminally stupid and treasonous. The communists know that they would have imploded had they not allowed the Free economy in, but, when they have enough moeny and resources, expect and attack of some sort, and now they have Hong Kong back, expect it sooner then later.

China is our Next USSR, and with 1 billion + people, it will not be pretty. Thank goodness their ballistic missiles are pieces of garbage, or we could really be in trouble, although they have threatened to take out LA if we intervened in anything that they do.

quote:

---

Uncle Sam has spent far too much of our money, blood, and resources to continue sticking his nose into other peoples business. Money that would be better spent caring for the military veterans of past wars, upgrading the pay rates for current military personnel, education, paying down the national debt, repairing the Social Security System, revamping the tax codes, etc. etc ad nausea.( I misspelled Nauseum on purpose because just thinking about this garbage makes me ill).

---

That's another reason that I am thankful that you are not in charge. If China attacks Taiwan, we will intervene and attack China, and China will have cut it's own economic throat, their BIGGEST trading partner is the US.

We need to watch China like a hawk, and take care of and nip in the bud ANY expansionist military actions by them.

China is a danger to us all, and until the people boot the communists from power, they will continue to be a threat to ALL democracies.

Reality is a real pain I know, but that is what is real.

Communists wish to force their form of government on EVERYONE, their perfect world so to speak, but it nothing but destruction.

SSI, military pay raises etc are all well and good, but if we are militarily pounded by China, none of those will matter a hill of beans, and I guarantee, that the US will be China's first target.

They can kill us economically right now if they wanted to, but they are not ready, once they are, be prepared for major problems in the US as our goods are cut off, because Walmart, K-mart and 90% of other retailers will have NO stock and will have to scramble to stock their shelves, our manufacturers that are actually building here are using probably 80% of Chinese products in their finished goods, etc, etc, but once Chinas does this, the follow up from them will be military. Expect it, because it is going to happen.

China has us by the short and curlies economically, and the noose is tightening. China is a huge danger, and you are fiddling while Rome burns.

As I say, within our lifetimes, we are going to see major economic and political chaos, it is coming, and all the different policies, shortsighted nonsense, political garbage, economic games etc will all come together and Boom, the world will explode.

Should be an interesting show.

There are ways to stop it, but this post is too long already.

[Wolferz]

Thanks for that slanted view, Jag;)

Al I can say is,"You call us Chicken Little?"

[Guest]

I know history, and all the political, economic, religious, and of course human interactions, tell me that within 25 years, history will again repeat itself, only this time in a much bigger way.

All the indicators are there, and the indicators show that history will again do what it always does.

Human nature is very predictable, and we are doomed repeat history, because no one listened the first time.

An I am an optimist Wolferz, cause in all honesty, most that understand history expect it much sooner then I do.

And I also believe that it may not be too late to stop it, but being that I also know human nature, bread and circuses, and "it Can't happen to me", we will continue happily to our destruction.

Look to history, it has MANY lessons to teach, and the end of the United States as it is, and the end of the free world economy as it is, is chugging along right for you, and in your happy zeal, you can't see it coming.

I live every day knowing that history will repeat itself, and knowing that there is a way to stop it, and knowing that it's NOT gonna happen.

So call me chicken little if you want, but you are failing to see the BIG picture, you see all the little things, Iraq, China, Europe, North Korea, Islam, etc etc, but you are not putting the pieces together and seeing the puzzle as a whole, and when you do, the realization will hit you like that train I was warning you about...

[DeepFreeze]

Somehow, I can't help but think the days of the United States are almost up. I have come to realize this:

Rome + 2000 years = USA

1. Initial strong leadership ensures the prosperity of the fledgling nation.

2. The fledgling nation forcefully expands into the surrounding regions to increase its power.

3. The country basks in its success while the presence of corruption and arrogance grows.

4. Numerous exterior aggressors and internal conspirators whittle away at the nation.

5. Collapse.

It looks to me that we're on step 4. And considering that it only took 200 years to get there, expect the United States to only exist until the year 2040 (as long as we follow the path that we're on, and thats being optimistic I might add).

However, there is an additional card in play. The world's economy is largely dependant upon the US, so if we go down, everyone goes down.

Besides, someone mentioned how bad a nuclear war would be somewhere near the beginning of this thread, but you can't forget that with the innumerable thousands of nukes that exist today, its only a matter of time until somebody uses one.

Ultimately, we have engineered our destruction from day 1. Our country, and the entire world, is enveloped in untold layers of bureaucracy, that we will need a miracle to stop what was set in motion so long ago. No organism in the known universe has spent so much energy trying to destroy itself as a human being. Unfortunately, it seems our entire species is a failure of genetics, as we not only destroy ourselves, but also each other, and everything around us.

We, as a species have the power to create true wonders, but unfortunately, we also have the desire and the means to destroy them and the entire planet several times over in the blink of an eye.

I am truly amazed that our species has survived as long as it has. Maybe I'm being overly pessimstic, but I don't think so. It's a shame, too, because we've done so much in the comparatively short amount of time humans have been on this earth compared to most other animals.

Each and every person has the potential to be either a god, or a walking deathstar, and it will not be until we truly understand and come to terms with who we are and what we wish to be, and what we wish to do, that we will be able to make truly responsible decisions about our futures and those of our peers.

[/sermon]

Hmm...looks like I wrote another book. Sorry. I'll stop rambling now.

[ 04-18-2004, 11:03 PM: Message edited by: DeepFreeze ]

[Grizzle]

You guys must tell some really scary bedtime stories.

[LostInSpace]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Grizzle:

You guys must tell some really scary bedtime stories.

---

Got that right. I start off with the perennial favorite Goldilocks and the three nukes.

[Guest]

Does that scare you?

It should, because it is the truth.

History is repeating itself, AGAIN, and until we can scare a lot of people with the truth, instead of ignoring the fact that it's happening, the better.

It needs to change quickly if it's going to save us, otherwise, history will repeat itself and who knows what will happen after that.

Yes, it's scary, because it's the truth, no bedtime story about it.

[Wolferz]

Our only problem in this day and age and this country is the Bourgeois class system of Capitalism and the arrogance of those born into the upper class, who will stop at nothing to maintain their status quo.

They have infiltrated our government as a means to control their wealth and the people who help create their wealth. Kind of like Communism in reverse. This is not a modern day idea, it is what has driven history for centuries. It has been the cause of numerous wars and the death of billions.

This was recognized 2 millinnea ago.

IE:Hear this, you who trample upon the needy,

And would bring the poor of the land to an end,

Saying, When will the new moon pass

That we may sell grain,

And the Sabbath that we may offer wheat for sale,

Making the ephah small and the price great,

And falsifying the scales;

Buying the poor for silver,

And the needy in exchange for a pair of sandals,

And selling the refuse of the grain." From the Old Testament Book of Amos."

So you see, Jag, you assume that everyone here, but yourself, has no knowledge of history.

And you know what happens when we "Assume"

[ 04-19-2004, 07:47 AM: Message edited by: Wolferz ]

[DennyMala]

Communism as capitalism are only two ideas, the good and the bad of this two are only dues to the acts that a governement does to follow that guideline.

Personally I'm a left wing italian and I dislike both oppressive communism and extreme capitalism/liberism. My thought is an economy system that is able to develop at a rate that allow less rich people to be aided and sustained and that make rich people contribute more than others to the common good without permit to anyone to make money on others weakness or faults.

In this way there will be less too poor and less too rich with a welfare system that can take care of the needs of the population; just like the scandinavian model.

Just my 2 cents...

[Guest]

Well, Wolferz, I don't agree with that Class Warfare rhetoric. Yes, there are some rich people that are doing what they can to destroy us, but there are also poor people and middle class people that are attempting to destroy us.

To blame one class of people is the same as blaming the sun for setting at night and rising in the morning.

Socialism is destroying us, and it will continue to destroy us. This Robin Hood attitude of the Democrats and the Republicans will be our downfall. The continued overtaxing of those that earn the wealth and the passing out to those who don't earn the wealth.

You're idea is an old one and a dangerous one, it is that attitude that has created the forces that will destroy us. You are one of the ones that have created the morass that will be our downfall.

You may know history, too bad you ignore it what is actually occurring and did occurr.

Class warfare is what is destroying us, and your continued preaching of such nonsense will bring that destruction on even faster.

Too bad you haven't figured out the message, instead of spreading the disease.

[Guest]

quote:

---

Originally posted by DennyMala:

Communism as capitalism are only two ideas, the good and the bad of this two are only dues to the acts that a governement does to follow that guideline.

Personally I'm a left wing italian and I dislike both oppressive communism and extreme capitalism/liberism. My thought is an economy system that is able to develop at a rate that allow less rich people to be aided and sustained and that make rich people contribute more than others to the common good without permit to anyone to make money on others weakness or faults.

In this way there will be less too poor and less too rich with a welfare system that can take care of the needs of the population; just like the scandinavian model.

Just my 2 cents...

---

And that is what is leading to our destruction.

Thank you for pointing that out.

It's a nice idea, and sounds wonderful, but in the long run it will destroy you.

Bread and circus's and the Robin Hood complex, it will destroy us.

One of these days, read Atlas Shrugged, and understand that that is what the government will force those that produce to do. It is happening, it will happen, and you will scream that it isn't fair.

Life is not fair, socialism in any form will destroy the host that if feeds off of, and that host is the producers of that country.

Punish the producers for producing, and pretty soon you either A: Don't have any producers, or B: you get very Greedy producers that will do all they can to protect their wealth, including taking over the government if they can to stop it, or moving offshore to protect themselves.

Socialism light is destroying us, and yet you guys continue to spout it like it's only fair.

Well, it is what will destroy us....

[Grizzle]

No Jag, I'm not scared.

Not because I don't believe what you say (all things must come to pass and the US will cease to exist at some point), but because there isn't a damn thing I can do about it.

I'm not religious by any stretch of the imagination, but here's a Christian prayer excerpt that puts it in rather profound terms:

God grant me the serenity

to accept the things I cannot change;

courage to change the things I can;

and wisdom to know the difference.

Does wonders for peace of mind.

[Guest Fox__Trot]

*sigh* you two have PROVED the point

look how quickly you get bogged down in diffrences in IDEALS you know thats lead to war before?

and you have both proved the point with what im sure you'll refer to as a "Debate" or "Discussion" in order to "cover up" you're "mistake" of "dooming" the world in a "the world is doomed" thread btw i only read the 2nd page

[DeepFreeze]

And this is why I propose we all become hermits.

[street228]

Just a personal view and opinon(i.e. Not looking for a debate!!)

quote:

---

History is repeating itself, AGAIN, and until we can scare a lot of people with the truth, instead of ignoring the fact that it's happening, the better.

---

History is doomed to repeat itself, as long as the only "remembered history", is the product of those who win the wars. For there are viable views, if not justification, for the acts of all who choose to repel any deemed an oppressor; However, FEAR is the root of misunderstanding, which lies at the foundation of EVERY conflict in history.

Though I agree complacient mindsets allow men to walk blindly into self destructive scenerios, I firmly believe EDUCATION, devoid of motivation by fear, is much more constructive in achieving positive results.

I have also noted: throughout history, every national leader, of every political persuasion, who used FEAR as a tactic upon their population,

used the FEAR, as an avenue to achieve a more daunting, and less respectable agenda.

quote:

---

you'll refer to as a "Debate" or "Discussion" in order to "cover up" you're "mistake" of "dooming" the world in a "the world is doomed" thread btw i only read the 2nd page

---

And here, discussion and debate(I personaly feel) are two entirely different animals. and would pre fer the latter. As debates are nothing more than a way to attack, any with opposing opinion, to justify anothers ideology; however, a discussion, allows any and all opinions to be heard, and to be accepted or discarded by the individual who reads them.

just my 2 cents, after reading this thread.