Judge orders couple not to have children

[LostInSpace]

A couple has been ordered not to conceive any more children until the ones they already have are no longer in foster care..

Hmmm, not sure how to react to this. On the one hand I agree but on the other civil liberties are being trampled on.

[echo]

I think she should be forced to have her tubes tied. I am soo tired of people!

[LostInSpace]

quote:

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Originally posted by echo:

I think she should be forced to have her tubes tied. I am soo tired of people!

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I agree but the problem is will this issue end there? Knowing how the government and legal system is they have a tendency to go to far. If they get away with it this time, there is no telling if they won't go further and try this on any person they in "their wisdom" deem unfit to be a parent and bare children. That is what the danger is here. I'd rather see them force adoption and make the adoption process easier and get them out of the foster care system rather than them issuing a forced medical procedure. There are so many people in this country that can't have children and would love to have them

but the adoption process in this country is a joke. I can give you an example my sister who's a trained nurse and her husband who's a cop and for one reason or another couldn't have children even going the medical intervention route twice which didn't take still had to wait years before

they could even be considered a candidate for adoption then had to wait years until the adoption is final. They got so disgusted with this system here they went to china and adopted a baby took only a year and a half between all the government paper work for this country and china.

Does that make sense or what? Our government makes it more easier to adopt a baby from another country than it does it's own home grown babies. It's insane I tell ya.

[DeepFreeze]

Even though this is constitutionaly wrong, I have to agree with the judge. Some people just should NOT have kids. And worst of all, they do it at the expense of their own children. They let their kids have cocaine?! What is WRONG WITH PEOPLE? I was hoping that in a matter such as this, there may not need to be a line where the governemnt steps in and says, "Since you're such an incomprehensibly brain-dead moron, we have to do this for you." Apparently, the gene pool has gotten so low that we have to stop people from having kids.

Our mentally decayed degenerate society has gotten so bad that I am now of the opinion that people should require a license to have kids.

[Wolferz]

Here we go again,

The blind leading the blind.

This poor woman is nothing more than another victim of a wholesale Eugenics project.

First off, do you know anyone who is addicted to Cocaine? They have no proclivity to share their drugs with anyone, especially their children!

If the woman was using drugs while pregnant, the fetus would get some of it.

If a hair sample drug test was used on these children, it would come back positive for anything the mother ingested. If a standard blood test were done it is likely to show little or no traces of anything in their system. I would bet that, if any of us here had experimented with an illegal substance in our young, dumb, and not very wise school days, and had a drug test using a hair sample done, we would all show up as positive.

Blinded by sensational claims you are.

Next...

Why would this woman waive her right to counsel?

Mayhaps because of some threat by the prosecutor?

A prosecutor who was looking to add another notch to his/her belt as window dressing for future personal political aspirations?

Drug addicted women have a tendency to lean toward prostitution to fuel the habit.

Which adds a convenient vehicle for the spread of communicable diseases like AIDS.

Can you honestly judge this person as a less than desirable human in our society because she has a serious problem? Not to mention limited facts from a very sketchy article.

I saw no mention of any previous attempts to get this woman into drug rehab, just a recommendation for mental health counseling and planned Parenthood classes. Would you want to plunge yourself into the morass of our mental healthcare system. I know of very few people who have emerged from that snake pit.

Even if the attempt was made, did they have the resources to pay the bills? I doubt it.

Most Addicts are from poor families, living in less than desirable curcumstances.

The hopelessness of poverty and the pressure associated with illegal drugs is like locking an alcoholoic in a liquor store for a weekend.

Do not be so quick to judge unless you have walked in this womans' world.

Do not blind yourself to government driven media hoopla.

The wool will keep your eyes warm, but won't stop you from walking into traffic.

Edit: After further inspection of the article, It is what wasn't reported in regard to this case that raises the red flag on this piece of journalism. Just enough to invoke an emotional response from closed minds. But nowhere near enough to make a rational well informed judgement. That was the intent.

[ 05-08-2004, 03:42 PM: Message edited by: Wolferz ]

[echo]

I understand the points on adoption. I also know many people who had to do invetro or adopt. None of the people I know were jumping to obtain babies who's parents have known mental problems or addictions.

I did have a little run in with cocaine in my youth in fact for 2 years it is really all I thought about. I never ever forgot to take my birth control pill. I also got off the crap and never looked back. I know a lot of people can't do that. But come on! Am I truly the only one here who is tired of supporting these people or worse, standing by watching them screw up these childrens lives.

I feel ignorance can no longer be an excuse for people.

I just get soo mad!

I understand peoples views about giving the government or the courts too much control, but I have to agree with them when it comes to these poor kids.

In my bad years there were things I did that I can't take back and if being fixed for having a bunch of kids I abused and had to be placed in foster care, so be it.

My mom is rasing her brothers kids both of their parents killed themselves with addictions. Their kids are messed up. These kids didn't deserve it.

Just because we have the parts to bring forth life does not give us the right to abuse them. Someone needs to stand up for these kids!

[DeepFreeze]

Well I'm sorry Wolfers, but we disagree. Boohoo for all the drug addicts of the world, they can have my sympathies. But if you do not have enough presence of mind or strength of will just to keep your own life from falling into the damn gutter, than you should not have any right to have the lives of children depend on you. As their screwed up roll model, they will more than likely walk the same path, and their lives will be ruined as their parents were. Sure, some people may not make the greatest parents, but when it gets to the point that the passing of your genes becomes detrimental to others' health, then the answer is simple: DON'T HAVE KIDS!

But of course, their will always be people who are too irresponsible to understand this concept, and are unable to "keep it in their pants," and we have what we have now. Kids growing up with immature, drug-addict parents, that are teaching their kids the same destructive life-style.

[Wolferz]

I can understand your viewpoint, DeepFreeze, as narrow as it is.

Should we keep on running the Rat race with the blinders on so we don't see who falls beside us?

Should we just spend some tax money on a couple of dozen concentration camps? Certainly cheaper than buiding secure prisons to warehouse these government created miscreants, and we can get the first batch of prisoners to build their own housing structures by giving them an incentive to build : Work or sleep in the mud.

Once these miscreants are out of the public eye, sequestered deep in some forest or gator infested swamp, then we can sterilize them to our hearts content and it's guaranteed that they won't be doing anymore drugs or breeding more children into the same morass they grew up in.

How about we call the first one "Area 52"

Certainly a good place to put the first draftees who are not fit for military service, as guards.

Can we compile a list of other people who don't fit our patriotic productive role in American society? How about everyone who is drawing welfare or disability? They certainly fit the mold of a drain on our society. Lock them up too, then ever so quietly channel them into a TDP apparatus and make oil out of them.

That cures the need to feed them.

et joila, problem solved.

I think we have forgotten the most basic concept here folks. We are free to pursue our God given right of freedom. If we take that away from the least of us, then we take it away from all of us.

Is that what you really want?

My apologies for being abrasive, but coldhearted reasoning tends to derail free societies and it ticks me off to see things like this happening.

History always repeats itself.

"Come on down Nazis, here's YOUR second chance."

Don't give anyone else a second chance this time.

[DeepFreeze]

Now, now, Wolferz. I hope you're not comparing me to a Nazi. Ok, fine. Howabout this idea? How about we just let everything go and let natural selection take control. Afterall, I see it's been lagging behind lately, which is the only explanation for how weak and helpless beings can survive long enough in this world to pass on their genes.

So instead of my initial plan (from your perspective) to shoot them all and put them in a mass grave, I'll take a more hands off approach and let them do the work for me.

quote:

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Can we compile a list of other people who don't fit our patriotic productive role in American society? How about everyone who is drawing welfare or disability?

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Ok, you're starting to blurr the line with this a bit. This isn't about patriotism and role models, this is about natural selection. I'm not the reason that they are hooked on cocaine, and neglect their children so they can blow every dime they have on more nose candy. You're not the reason either. Only they are, and in all probability, their kids would have died long ago without the intervention of everyone's favorite Big Brother.

I didnt stuff it up their noses so they would get addicted. I didn't put it in snazzy commercials with supermodels saying "Cocaine is the coolest!" They made a conscious effort to get to where they are now and it is THEIR fault. On top of that they also chose to bear children into the same circumstances and that is also THEIR fault. If they are ruining lives of children simply by having them, you have to draw a line somewhere. And instead of ruining more lives, they simply should not have children at all.

[Matchoo]

My wife and I are in the process of being certified to be foster parents, and last night we went to our fist of eight 4-hour courses. The entire time was spent discussing the development cycle of children from when their born until they are adults. Many things must happen for a child to develop their physical, emotional, congnitive, and mental abilities correctly. If these things aren't done at the right times through life then it can cause long lasting effects that require a lot of work and time to repair.

If their 4 children are in foster care, then the state has decided that the children's welfare isn't being properly met and they have legally have the right to remove them from the situation. The parents and the children can then get the treatment they need, and when sufficient progress has been made then the children can return to the parents.

To have any more children before this happens is a REALLY bad idea. As soon as the child was born they would be put into a foster situation, and even though the child would be taken care of, it would prevent the child from being able to make critical advances in development such as bonding with and learning trust their parents.

If the judge is allowed to make this decision, it could eventually escalate to the point where people aren't allowed to have children because they aren't smart enough, or don't make enough money, or are handicapped, etc.

So even though I understand the situation the judge is trying to prevent, I don't think that she should be allowed otherwise it could create a far worse situtation down the road.

this is just my 2-cents, though.....

[ 05-13-2004, 06:41 PM: Message edited by: Matchoo ]

[BladeMasterX]

honestly heres my two cents, if a straight couple is going ot have children, the maximum they should have is two, because the world is already beginning to get overpopulated, look at china. if you only have two, the world will stay at relatively the same population, because in the future the children would be taking the place of the mom and dad in the population. This is my two cents though.

[echo]

I think people should be able to have as many children as they can take care of. THEM not the government THEM and if they can't then they shouldn't have any.

I work really hard to provide for my two, yes it would be nice to leech off the system while I sun myself, but it's not my style. I know others who do not feel that way and take all they can. The kids then grow up to repeat the cycle.

I truly think if someone has 4 they can't take care of they should not have more. As it is if the couple mentioned in the article has another

they do time, so they don't get to keep that kid either. How many of their kids are we supposed to care for?

Matchoo I think you and your wife are wonderful for opening your home to kids who need it... Best wishes!!!