street228 Posted June 18, 2004 Report Posted June 18, 2004 quote: First off, the Bush administration NEVER said that Saddam was involved with 911, but has ALWAYS siad that there were and have been links to Al Quaeda and Iraq. I HAVE IT on tape..he most certainly DID. quote: Saddam and Al Quaeda had a Nonaggression Pact dating back to 1993, in which al Qaeda agreed not to agitate against the Iraqi regime. And the Iraqi regime in response, agreed to provide al Qaeda with assistance on weapons development. A PAST non-agression pact, and international agreements to provide weapons research...IS NOT the point!!. you are missing the WHOLE concept of the 9/11 investigation, and the statements which BUSHy baby made!!. so it is worthless to try and argue. past international connections with another foreign entity, does NOT designate a CONNECTION with the 9/11 incident, nor does it confirm coordination with TERRORIST activity, within the ALQUEDA network. Hell, ****WE****(U.S.A.!!) had ties with ALQUEDA,..AND SADDAM in the PAST. by your logic, WE are as GUILTY as SADDAM. Use some OBJECTIVE, rather than partisen reasoning, and try to get a handle on what has ACTUALLY transpired. your confusion is caused, by the fact, that you can NOT seem to differentiate, between what happened on 9/11 and the Iraqi war. These ARE two entirely DIFFERENT situations, and it WAS the BUSH administration who(through lies and propaghanda)that created this confusion, in order to ATTACK and INVADE another country for reasons, which CANNOT be verified, nor confirmed!!. This is a DANGER, to US, as AMERICANS, and our WHOLE way of life!!. It is irresponsible for our country to alienate our position throughout the world, to say the very least. quote:I have a very different picture then you do Street, but you get your info 3rd hand, and I am getting mine almost directly from the sources. RUBBISH!!...complete and outright RUBBISH!!! I get my information: from MY STATE SENATORS,MY STATE CONGRESSMAN: MY STATE REPRESENTATIVES: and ALL the same AP news releases, which the REST of us Americans, get our information!! You must know BUSH, SADDAM, OSAMA, and the rest of the WHITE HOUSE STAFF, and upper echelon PENTIGON officials personnally!!...LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL [ 06-18-2004, 12:01 PM: Message edited by: street ]
Guest Posted June 18, 2004 Report Posted June 18, 2004 quote:Originally posted by $iLk: 1.)The 9/11 commission did find ties to Al Qaida - just not ties to 9/11 with Iraq. 2.)Never has George Bush or his administration denied that Iraq had no link to 9/11 3.)This is a war on TERRORISM - not a War on Al Qaida. I fail to see the signifigance in the news media reporting it this way. Most Newspapers and media said, JUST what his title said. Saddam and Al Quaeda had NO ties at all, whereas Bush has said time and time again, that they do HAVE ties. The media took this on sentence, out of a 15 page document, and threw it around like it actually meant what they said it meant. They said NO connection, the 911 commission says there was no connection with 911. I disagree with both, sources around the world, and within our own intelligence community are POSTIVE that Saddam helped to at least finance 911, if not help in the planning. The 911 commission has IGNORED that testimony. The fact is that the media took a very specific statement, and then generalized into something that was not at all true. And then CONTINUED to use it, even after being corrected.
Grizzle Posted June 18, 2004 Report Posted June 18, 2004 Connections? Yes, even WE had connections to Hussein, and Bin Laden at times. What we need to consider is the level of collusion and cooperation. My guess is that one could write an equally lengthy book as Steven Hayes, detailing the level of interaction between the US and any terrorist, dictatorial or despotic regime of choice. Take your pick of any of histories world conflicts and you're sure to find our fingers in the pie. Regardless, this issue does nothing to change the fact that many consider the attack on Iraq to be unnecessary, ill-timed and poorly thought out by this administration. On one hand I can fully understand and accept the need to address international terrorism, on the other I feel that the administration took advantage of the fear and anger of the American people as an opportunity to invade Iraq. As we've seen the level of evidence debunked, questioned and eroded over the last year I think this should be obvious to everyone. Was Bush totally wrong about attacking Iraq? Not in my opinion, but he was so much farther from being totally right. And it was most definitely not handled with the level of diplomacy, consideration and expertise we should expect from our government. One can only hope that Iraq does survive and becomes a new democracy to set an example for the Arab world. Unfortunately, the powers that be failed miserably by overestimating the appetite for democracy in the first place. It may well be that we made a mountain out of a mole hill and will be paying the price for a long time to come.
Guest Posted June 18, 2004 Report Posted June 18, 2004 quote:Originally posted by street: quote: First off, the Bush administration NEVER said that Saddam was involved with 911, but has ALWAYS siad that there were and have been links to Al Quaeda and Iraq. I HAVE IT on tape..he most certainly DID. quote: Saddam and Al Quaeda had a Nonaggression Pact dating back to 1993, in which al Qaeda agreed not to agitate against the Iraqi regime. And the Iraqi regime in response, agreed to provide al Qaeda with assistance on weapons development. A PAST non-agression pact, and international agreements to provide weapons research...IS NOT the point!!. you are missing the WHOLE concept of the 9/11 investigation, and the statements which BUSHy baby made!!. so it is worthless to try and argue. past international connections with another foreign entity, does NOT designate a CONNECTION with the 9/11 incident, nor does it confirm coordination with TERRORIST activity, within the ALQUEDA network. Hell, ****WE****(U.S.A.!!) had ties with ALQUEDA,..AND SADDAM in the PAST. by your logic, WE are as GUILTY as SADDAM. Use some OBJECTIVE, rather than partisen reasoning, and try to get a handle on what has ACTUALLY transpired. your confusion is caused, by the fact, that you can NOT seem to differentiate, between what happened on 9/11 and the Iraqi war. These ARE two entirely DIFFERENT situations, and it WAS the BUSH administration who(through lies and propaghanda)that created this confusion, in order to ATTACK and INVADE another country for reasons, which CANNOT be verified, nor confirmed!!. This is a DANGER, to US, as AMERICANS, and our WHOLE way of life!!. It is irresponsible for our country to alienate our position throughout the world, to say the very least. If you have it on Tape, then you are the only one who does, because NO ONE has stepped forward with ANY statement, recorded, written or otherwise, that has Bush saying that Iraq had a DIRECT connection with 911. Ha has NEVER said that, if you have it on tape, I would advise you to get it to the media, because they need something to back up their nonsense quickly. And oh please, chill ou on the emotional rhetoric, 911 changed our entire whole way of life, attacking Iraq has done NOTHING of the sort, except chop off a major supplier of cash and supplies and weapons to terrorists. Don't think that I will cry over that, because I am not, and will not. We had to take out Iraq, and next will be Syria, and then Iran. This is a war on Terrorism, and the only way to hurt terrorism and defeat it, is to take out the governments that support them. This is war Street, and war is hell....... We now have a preemptive doctrine, which you may hate wiht all your might, but it's about fricking time. When a countries government acts up, BOOM, we come down like the hammer of god. Libya has bowed down, North Korea is making alot of moise but they are bowing down, Iran is squealing like a stuck pig, but they are bowing down, and if Syria doesn't watch it, we are gonna take them out as well. This is War, and war ain't pretty, but so far this administration has shown me that they do indeed know EXACTLY what they are doing.
street228 Posted June 18, 2004 Report Posted June 18, 2004 quote: quote:I have a very different picture then you do Street, but you get your info 3rd hand, and I am getting mine almost directly from the sources. RUBBISH!!...complete and outright RUBBISH!!! I get my information: from MY STATE SENATORS,MY STATE CONGRESSMAN: MY STATE REPRESENTATIVES: and ALL the same AP news releases, which the REST of us Americans, get our information!! You must know BUSH, SADDAM, OSAMA, and the rest of the WHITE HOUSE STAFF, and upper echelon PENTEGON officials personnally!!...LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL quote: posted 06-18-2004 09:51 AM There is an old saying(comes from the GOOD book): "Cast not, your perls before swine" street>'holding a bag FULL of perls,and re-evaluating who is truly worthy of them" -------------------- >>>from this point forward:>>>> [ 06-18-2004, 12:19 PM: Message edited by: street ]
Guest Posted June 18, 2004 Report Posted June 18, 2004 quote:Originally posted by street: quote: quote:I have a very different picture then you do Street, but you get your info 3rd hand, and I am getting mine almost directly from the sources. RUBBISH!!...complete and outright RUBBISH!!! I get my information: from MY STATE SENATORS,MY STATE CONGRESSMAN: MY STATE REPRESENTATIVES: and ALL the same AP news releases, which the REST of us Americans, get our information!! You must know BUSH, SADDAM, OSAMA, and the rest of the WHITE HOUSE STAFF, and upper echelon PENTIGON officials personnally!!...LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL quote: posted 06-18-2004 09:51 AM There is an old saying(comes from the GOOD book): "Cast not, your perls before swine" street>'holding a bag FULL of perls,and re-evaluating who is truly worthy of them" -------------------- >>>from this point forward:>>>> Oh puhlease Street, get a grip. I know and have contact with people within Iraq itself, within our intelligence community, and international news sources that have things to say, that you really don't want to hear. Senators and congresscritters? Come on, can we get a grip here as well. All they care about is getting reelected, they are going to tell you EXACTLY what you want to hear in order that you vate them back into office. I trust Senators and congresscritters as far as I can throw them. because most are A: dishonest B:immoral and C: only care about the next election cycle. So, again, oh Puhlease, get a grip. And again, get that tape off to the media, because they can't seem to find it.....
street228 Posted June 18, 2004 Report Posted June 18, 2004 quote: So, again, oh Puhlease, get a grip. street>..*Got a FIRM grip on REALITY*>>
Guest Posted June 18, 2004 Report Posted June 18, 2004 They just seem to be coming out of the woodwork. From one of your favorites Street, the AP. quote: ASTANA, Kazakhstan ÔÇö Russia gave the Bush administration intelligence after the September 11 attacks that suggested Saddam Hussein's regime in Iraq was preparing attacks in the United States, President Vladimir Putin (search) said Friday. Putin said he couldn't comment on how critical the Russians' information was in the U.S. decision to invade Iraq. In Washington, a U.S. official said Putin's information did not add to what the United States already knew about Saddam's intentions. The official, speaking on condition of anonymity because of the sensitivity of the information, said the Russian tip did not specify a time or a place where an attack might take place. The Bush administration in part justified the invasion of Iraq by saying Saddam had links to terror groups, including Al Qaeda (search). The U.S. commission investigating the Sept. 11 attacks said this week there was no evidence of any collaboration between Iraq and Usama bin Laden's terror network. Putin said Russia didn't have any information that Saddam's regime was actually behind any terrorist acts. "After Sept. 11, 2001, and before the start of the military operation in Iraq, the Russian special services, the intelligence service, received information that officials from Saddam's regime were preparing terrorist attacks in the United States and outside it against the U.S. military and other interests," Putin said. Nope, no reason to attack Iraq, no reason at all, no reason to get rid of Saddam, no reason at all. Bush had NOTHING and NO reason to Attack Iraq, none at all. Yeah, right..... Geez, you guys live in some sort of fantasy world......
Grizzle Posted June 18, 2004 Report Posted June 18, 2004 quote:Originally posted by Jaguar: I know and have contact with people within Iraq itself, within our intelligence community, and international news sources that have things to say, that you really don't want to hear. Senators and congresscritters? Come on, can we get a grip here as well. All they care about is getting reelected, they are going to tell you EXACTLY what you want to hear in order that you vate them back into office. I trust Senators and congresscritters as far as I can throw them. because most are A: dishonest B:immoral and C: only care about the next election cycle. So, again, oh Puhlease, get a grip. And again, get that tape off to the media, because they can't seem to find it..... As opposed to the military who always operates on the principal of honesty and forthrightness? It's a romantic thought, but far far from the ultimate truth. There isn't a more well oiled propaganda machine that exists that can out do any given countries military. You speak as if the military has no interest in seeing itself succeed and expand (ie "get re-elected"). If the last years events are any indication of the level of competence and truth in our intelligence and military communities then we'd all be well advised to take anything they say with a grain of salt. That includes your "inside sources" Jag. No disrespect to the hard working, valiant enlisted men and women, past or present, intended.
street228 Posted June 18, 2004 Report Posted June 18, 2004 Jag, at the rate things are going, I think you will find, you will have less and less co-supporters for this administration, AND it's LIES. check THIS OUT! http://www.veteransforcommonsense.org/news...cle.asp?id=1754 street>>>> wondering what JAG'S stand will be when the he is all alone, in his views
Guest Posted June 18, 2004 Report Posted June 18, 2004 So, let's see what we have here? 1: We have 14 UN resolutions that were ignored. Each threatening some sort of action that never came. 2: We had games played with the inspectors, 24 hours later, all WMD's would have been moved etc, and the inspectors let in. 3: We got an entire LIST of WMD's from Iraq itself, but there is only proof that a small amount of WMD's on that list were ever destroyed, and that was by the UN inpectors. 4: Iraq had ties to NUMEROUS terrorist organizations, PLO, Saddan payed Suicide bombers 10K a piece to their survivors and families. He made a pact with Al Quaeda, there were NUMEROUS terrorist training camps in and around Iraq. Zarcowi, number 3 in Alquaeda went to a Hospital, RUN by Uday Housein to be treated for his wounds from Afghanistan, and stayed in Baghdad for weeks afterwards. Hezbollah, there is a huge amount of evidence that he gave them major financial contributions. 5: The WMD's, a convoy left the Iraqi desert for the Syrian border, where it ended up is anyones guess, but according to Iraqis and intelligence on the ground, the convoy was full to the gills with WMD's. This was shortly before we invaded. 3 cargo ships, again, according to Iraqis and Inetlligence sources, loaded with equipment to make WMD's and WMD's themselves have literally disapeared, again, they left shortly before the invasion. It seems that over 1000 tons of Scrap metal per month were sold to numerous countries around the world. The "scrap metal" has turned out to be some of the labs, etc, that Saddam had for making WMD's. this scrap metal, has again, conveniently disapeared. It shipped to Turkey, Syria, Iran, and some European countries. There are just SOME of the reasons that we HAD to take out Iraq, and QUICKLY. But, we farted around with the UN and the peace at all costs idiots, and that gave Saddam the time he needed to get his WMD's etc out of the country, to continue in other places. Some WMD's have been found within the country, Sarin gas artillery rounds, cyanide salts etc. There is NO doubt that the WMD's existed, it is now a matter of where are they now. After the invasion, Jordan thwarts a WMD attack, 99% positive that it came from Iraqi stockpiles, that are most likely from the convoy that went into Syria. The terrorists now have WMD's, thank you peaceniks and the UN, because if we had invaded 2-3 weeks earlier, they would have still been within the country and we could have gotten them. And people wonder why Bush was in such a hurry. We had ALL kinds of reasons that we had to invade Iraq, and QUICKLY, but we still got there too late, now it is matter of preemptively going after those that either have those weapons, or have the facilities to create more of those weapons. Cry all you want, but the faster we go, and the more terrorist supporting countries that we take out, the less likely they will have the chance to use one of those WMD's that they NOW have, because we were slow, and we can save ourselves, preemptivley from a WMD attack. If Kerry somehow wins the election, and stops the war on terrorism, as he is saying he will, and if as you say above, I am all alone in my beliefs, which are based on facts, not wishful thinking and conspiracy theories, such as yours are, then I predict this. Within 6 months, by May of 2005, with Kerry in office and the preemptive war on terrorism over, we will have a massive terrorist attack within the US which will make 911 look like a picnic. Sarin gas, anthrax, smallpox, and very possibly a nuclear weapon of some sort. When people actually believe the lass media propaganda, and the emotional nonsense that you are spewing, there will be a MAJOR WMD attack on the shores of this country.
street228 Posted June 18, 2004 Report Posted June 18, 2004 its all been heard. SOME truth mixed in there, with little TRUE justification for what HAS transpired. Even Bush has been smart enough to stop repeating the BS
Guest Posted June 18, 2004 Report Posted June 18, 2004 quote:Originally posted by street: well, never say that you weren't given fair warning. Fiddle away while Rome burns, that's fine, but if Bush is not reelected, we are ALL toast, because if Kerry or any of his type of ilk is elected, we are dead, or at least a good portion of us. Pearls before swine indeed, here piggy piggy, not very smart animals are they? I think this is rather amusing actually. You with your, "I hate Bush" and he is destroying this country, and no matter how ,many facts you give me, no matter what evidence you have. I STILL hate Bush, and I still think he's wrong. even if what he is doing is the ONLY way to save us from a MASSIVE terrorist attack. I would rather have a MAJOR terrorist attack here in the US that Kills THOUSANDS of people, then admit that I am wrong.... and Bush actually does know what he is doing... Pretty sad Street, no, not pretty sad, VERY sad. I feel for you, I really do, I couldn't live like that, I like logical thought, and facts. Emotional rhetoric and nonsense is something that I really dislike, but you seem to love it, and live it.
street228 Posted June 18, 2004 Report Posted June 18, 2004 JUDGExKTF is 100% right!! and I do NOT stand ALONE! quote:Fiddle away while Rome burns, that's fine, but if Bush is not reelected, we are ALL toast, because if Kerry or any of his type of ilk is elected, we are dead, or at least a good portion of us. LOL I assure you, I am not sitting here doing NOTHING. I have probably spent more money and time fighting this ignorant president's position, and chances for re-election, than you have earned or hours you have worked this year. as for your FEAR doctrine, that the U.S. is doomed, if Kerry wins... Stupid AGRESSIVE REACTION is what gets innocent people KILLED, NOT intelligent action.
Guest Posted June 18, 2004 Report Posted June 18, 2004 quote:Originally posted by JUDGExKTF: quote: 1: We have 14 UN resolutions that were ignored. Each threatening some sort of action that never came Why does the US only talk about UN resolutions when it benefits them? Taliban prisoners anyone? UN membership contribution anyone? You have no right to talk about the UN. The UN is an instatution dedicated to peace not some lame excuse todo whatever you like, The US only complies to UN regulations when they feel like it. quote: Cry all you want, but the faster we go, and the more terrorist supporting countries that we take out, the less likely they will have the chance to use one of those WMD's that they NOW have, because we were slow, and we can save ourselves, preemptivley from a WMD attack. I politly ask you, where are the WMD? So many attacks and not one WMD found..... Ok im out of this discussion, this is why America has a bad name in Europe. You think you can call all the shots in the world without answering to anyone or anything. THIS IS WHAT CAUSED 9/11 IN THE FIRST PLACE. Apparently people like you haven't learned anything from it. We have learned something from it, when the world tells us to do something, we tell it go fly a kite and do what we want. America First buddy!! That's just the way I think, sorry, I don't care what the rest of the world thinks. America does what is in it's best interests PERIOD.... And how many times do I have to tell you? the WMD's are now scattered around the middle east, if we had gone in earlier, we would have gotten them, but now they are in Syria, Iran, and other countries. Saddam got them out because he knew we were coming, and did not want them to be taken. Terrorists now have them, syria now has them, and someone, somewhere has 3 cargo ships loaded to the gills with the stuff. Nice huh?
Guest Posted June 18, 2004 Report Posted June 18, 2004 quote:Originally posted by street: JUDGExKTF is 100% right!! and I do NOT stand ALONE! quote:Fiddle away while Rome burns, that's fine, but if Bush is not reelected, we are ALL toast, because if Kerry or any of his type of ilk is elected, we are dead, or at least a good portion of us. LOL I assure you, I am not sitting here doing NOTHING. I have probably spent more money and time fighting this ignorant president's position, and chances for re-election, than you have earned or hours you have worked this year. as for your FEAR doctrine, that the U.S. is doomed, if Kerry wins... Stupid AGRESSIVE REACTION is what gets innocent people KILLED, NOT intelligent action. well, after the next WMD attack, you will be standing alone, trying to figure out how you could have been so wrong. Then again, you're never wrong, right Street?...ROFL Your emotional spewing and total disregard for the actual truth stuns me, but does not actually surprise me. You are indeed a LIBERAL, you may try and say that you WERE a Republican, but there is no way in heck. You are a Democrat, always have been a democrat, and always will be a democrat. The emotional spewing forth of nonsense is typical of a liberal Democrat, so there is NO doubt in my mind, that you are one... Aggressive action is the ONLY thing that these people understand, (the terrorists) just in case I need to spell it out for you... and intelligent aggressive action is really what they understand and will kill them, and that IS EXACTLY what Cush and team are doing. Intelligent aggressiveness and military power placed in the right places, diplomacy in other places, and a combination in other places. This administration has been nothing short of genius in doing all of these at just the right time. The media hates it, you hate it, and liberals hate, whereas I love it. Because it is ALL coming together, there has NOT been attack on our soil since 911, and we are killing terrorists by the hundreds.... So cry, whine, pay money, but when it all comes to the bottom line, you are very vocal minority, but a minority none the less. Your rhetoric is laughable, your facts are not even close, and your arrogance is hilarious..... The facts back me up, and leave you in the dust, you are living in a fantasy land, whereas I live in the REAL world. Facts mean things, they CANNOT be ignored for long, and my facts will prevail, because they are indeed "facts". It's been fun watching the rhetoric and nonsense spew forth from you guys this morning, but I have things that I need to do today.....
street228 Posted June 18, 2004 Report Posted June 18, 2004 quote:And how many times do I have to tell you? the WMD's are now scattered around the middle east, if we had gone in earlier, we would have gotten them, but now they are in Syria, Iran, and other countries. Saddam got them out because he knew we were coming, and did not want them to be taken. Terrorists now have them, syria now has them, and someone, somewhere has 3 cargo ships loaded to the gills with the stuff. Nice huh? Parinoia at it's BEST. FEAR, FEAR and more FEAR. The RALLEY call for a LYNCH MOB...is OVER. Why do you persist? Even BUSH has shown enough sense, to have stopped with that technique. Follow your GOD (i.e.BUSH) and harp on how bad a government Iraq was. Better yet, go one step further..and promote an ATTACK on NORTH KOREA(the WORST dictator in the world). or are you afraid of a third world country which REALLY COULD put a hurt on us, if they chose to? (I need some more popcorn...and WHERE the hell is my DRINK?)
street228 Posted June 18, 2004 Report Posted June 18, 2004 quote: You cant win from people who have nothing to lose.This is something, which is only learned, when one is face to face(in person), with an enemy which has nothing to loose. The radical right, in this country, cannot comprehend the consequence of their action, and will ultimately, bring upon themselves, their own worst fears. quote: I just hope for the sake of your country, and the people who did not vote for Bush that there are some more people like Street over there. have no fear, my friend. There are close to 60%, in this country, who are fired up. Kerry just broke the RECORD, for independent campaign contributions,(NO COORPORATE LOBBIEST)$140 MILLION. and it's growing!!! EVEN LONG TERM EXTREME RIGHT WING REPUBLICANS are coming out of the woodwork, and beginning to speak up. The last election, and this administrations underhanded actions, ARE being RECOGNIZED by the MAJORITY. This ESCAPADE toward world dominance,based on LIES and intentional misconception, WILL come to an end. EVEN if bush wins this coming election(which I am coming to doubt, more every day). America, has always been subject to hysteria, when something drastic insues;however, our system of government HAS it's checks and balance in place. THOUGH slow to respond...the system works. RADICAL "RULE BY FORCE" ideals, can NEVER hold the American MAJORITY hostage, through fear,on an indefinate bases!!
Guest Posted June 19, 2004 Report Posted June 19, 2004 I just love liberal nonsense, because the nonsense is so obvious.... 60%, ROFLMAO!! That is hilarious. Right now, the polls show 57% for the war on Iraq, and guess what? After what the press did with the 911 commission statement, people are wondering what else the press has lied about. The number FOR the war, and FOR president Bush are now growing, and will continue to grow from now on. The best thing that Kerry could do would be to sit on his hands and shut up, but he is loudly proclaiming the nonsense the media is feeding, and it gonna backfire on him BIG time. The American people are learning the truth about Kerry, the Democrat party, and what the war on terrorism REALLY means as far as our survival. Bush will win the next election handily, and the war on terror will continue, just as it should. We are now fighting the terrorists where they live, and with our trained military personnel, and the terrorists are dying, as they should. The only thing they understand is terror, so we shall bring it to them in spades, and if they dare to attack us again, they will regret the fact that they were ever born, and a lot of their countryman will as well. We are the ONLY super power, and if you attack us, and kill our civilians, prepare to die. Because our vengance is swift, powerful and permanent...
Steve Schacher Posted June 22, 2004 Report Posted June 22, 2004 Editorial from New Hampshire's The Union Leader, Iraq and al-Qaida: Connections, maybe even to 9/11: quote:SO, the 9/11 Commission found multiple direct links between al-Qaida and Iraq, right? Actually, yes. But you might not know that if you just scanned the headlines last week. Newspapers from The New York Times to The Union Leader ran misleading headlines based on a misleading report. New York Times columnist William Safire pointed out yesterday that the commissionÔÇÖs staff put out the preliminary report with little if any involvement from the commission members themselves. Safire reported that the commissionÔÇÖs chairman, Tom Kean, told ABCÔÇÖs ÔÇ£This WeekÔÇØ that commission ÔÇ£members do not get involved in staff reports.ÔÇØ So in reality, not only was there no official conclusion that Saddam Hussein and al-Qaida never crossed paths (as some headlines suggested), but what little information has been presented under the commissionÔÇÖs name does not represent the views of the commission members themselves. Richard Miniter, author of ÔÇ£Losing bin Laden,ÔÇØ has interviewed some of the commissionÔÇÖs staff. He has concluded, as he wrote in the New York Post last Thursday: ÔÇ£Yesterday, the commission announced there was ÔÇÿno credible evidenceÔÇÖ linking Iraq and al Qaeda. In reality there is a wealth of evidence that the august panel has ignored.ÔÇØ Some of that evidence is making headlines this week, even though it is old news. The misleading report from the staff of the 9/11 Commission has made old stories of Iraq-al-Qaida ties into news again. The Iraq-al-Qaida ties reported by Miniter include:ÔÇ£Abdul Rahman Yasin, a member of the al Qaeda cell that detonated the 1993 World Trade Center bomb, fled to Iraq. U.S. forces recently discovered a cache of documents in Tikrit, SaddamÔÇÖs hometown, that show that Iraq gave Yasin both a home and a salary. ÔÇ£An al Qaeda operative now held by the U.S. confessed that in the mid-1990s, bin Laden had forged an agreement with SaddamÔÇÖs men to cease all terrorist activities against the Iraqi dictator.ÔÇ£In October 2000, another Iraqi intelligence operative, Salah Suleiman, was arrested by Pakistani authorities. Suleiman was shuttling between Iraqi intelligence and Ayman al Zawahiri, al QaedaÔÇÖs No. 2.ÔÇ£An Iraqi defector to Turkey, known by his cover name as ÔÇÿAbu Mohammed,ÔÇÖ told the Sunday Times of London that he saw bin LadenÔÇÖs fighters in Iraq in 1997. At the time, Mohammed was a colonel in SaddamÔÇÖs Fedayeen. He described an encounter at Salman Pak, the training facility southeast of Baghdad, where militants trained to hijack planes with knives ÔÇö on a full-size Boeing 707.ÔÇ£In 1998, Abbas al-Janabi, a longtime aide to SaddamÔÇÖs son Uday, defected to the West. At the time, he repeatedly told reporters that there was a direct connection between Iraq and al Qaeda.ÔÇØThe vice chairman of the 9/11 Commission, Richard Hamilton, has said that the Iraq-911 tie was ÔÇ£not proven one way or the other.ÔÇØ ThatÔÇÖs a far cry from saying there was no tie. All we can say for sure is that the jury is still out.
Steve Schacher Posted June 22, 2004 Report Posted June 22, 2004 New York Times column by William Safire, The Zelikow Report: quote:WASHINGTON ÔÇö "Panel Finds No Qaeda-Iraq Tie" went the Times headline. "Al Qaeda-Hussein Link Is Dismissed" front-paged The Washington Post. The A.P. led with the thrilling words "Bluntly contradicting the Bush Administration, the commission. . . ." This understandably caused my editorial-page colleagues to draw the conclusion that "there was never any evidence of a link between Iraq and Al Qaeda. . . ." All wrong. The basis for the hoo-ha was not a judgment of the panel of commissioners appointed to investigate the 9/11 attacks. As reporters noted below the headlines, it was an interim report of the commission's runaway staff, headed by the ex-N.S.C. aide Philip Zelikow. After Vice President Dick Cheney's outraged objection, the staff's sweeping conclusion was soon disavowed by both commission chairman Tom Kean and vice chairman Lee Hamilton. "Were there contacts between Al Qaeda and Iraq?" Kean asked himself. "Yes . . . no question." Hamilton joined in: "The vice president is saying, I think, that there were connections . . . we don't disagree with that" ÔÇö just "no credible evidence" of Iraqi cooperation in the 9/11 attack. The Zelikow report was seized upon by John Kerry because it fuzzed up the distinction between evidence of decade-long dealings between agents of Saddam and bin Laden (which panel members know to be true) and evidence of Iraqi cooperation in the 9/11 attacks (which, as Hamilton said yesterday, modifying his earlier "no credible evidence" judgment, was "not proven one way or the other.") But the staff had twisted the two strands together to cast doubt on both the Qaeda-Iraq ties and the specific attacks of 9/11: "There have been reports that contacts between Iraq and Al Qaeda also occurred after bin Laden had returned to Afghanistan, but they do not appear to have resulted in a collaborative relationship." Zelikow & Co. dismissed the reports, citing the denials of Qaeda agents and what they decided was "no credible evidence" of cooperation on 9/11. That paragraph ÔÇö extending doubt on 9/11 to all previous contacts ÔÇö put the story on front pages. Here was a release on the official commission's letterhead not merely failing to find Saddam's hand in 9/11, which Bush does not claim. The news was in the apparent contradiction of what the president repeatedly asserted as a powerful reason for war: that Iraq had long been dangerously in cahoots with terrorists. Cheney's ire was misdirected. Don't blame the media for jumping on the politically charged Zelikow report. Blame the commission's leaders for ducking responsibility for its interim findings. Kean and Hamilton have allowed themselves to be jerked around by a manipulative staff. Yesterday, Governor Kean passed along this stunner about "no collaborative relationship" to ABC's George Stephanopoulos: "Members do not get involved in staff reports." Not involved? Another commission member tells me he did not see the Zelikow bombshell until the night before its release. Moreover, the White House, vetting the report for secrets, failed to raise an objection to a Democratic bonanza in the tricky paragraph leading to the misleading "no Qaeda-Iraq tie." What can the commission do now to regain its nonpartisan credibility? 1. Require every member to sign off on every word that the commission releases, or write and sign a minority report. No more "staff conclusions" without presenting supporting evidence, pro and con. 2. Set the record straight, in evidentiary detail, on every contact known between Iraq and terrorist groups, including Abu Musab al-Zarqawi's operations in Iraq. Include the basis for the Clinton-era "cooperating in weapons development" statement. 3. Despite the prejudgment announced yesterday by Kean and Democratic partisan Richard Ben-Veniste dismissing Mohammed Atta's reported meeting in Prague with an Iraqi spymaster, fairly spell out all the evidence that led to George Tenet's "not proven or disproven" testimony. (Start with www.edwardjayepstein.com.) 4. Show how the failure to retaliate after the attack on the U.S.S. Cole affected 9/11, how removing the director of central intelligence from running the C.I.A. would work, and how Congress's intelligence oversight failed abysmally. 5. Stop wasting time posturing on television and get involved writing a defensible commission report.
street228 Posted June 22, 2004 Report Posted June 22, 2004 quote: We are now fighting the terrorists where they live, and with our trained military personnel, and the terrorists are dying, as they should. The only thing they understand is terror, so we shall bring it to them in spades, and if they dare to attack us again, they will regret the fact that they were ever born, and a lot of their countryman will as well. We are the ONLY super power, and if you attack us, and kill our civilians, prepare to die. Because our vengance is swift, powerful and permanent... This whole mental attitude presented, in the aforementioned quote,IS TRUE TERRORISM!! And, in the end, it will be STOPPED, I assure you! the only question here, is: "How long it will take; How much damage this mind set must impose, upon this nation, before the PEOPLE rise up and stop it; and, What will be required, to put an end to it!!" Preach what you will, but people, like yourself, are a DIRECT threat to our WHOLE way of life, here in AMERICA. Much MORE of a threat, than ALQUEDA ever was! There is NO justification for this mentality, which reflects the bush administration's mind set. The IMPORTANT thing NOT mentioned ?? "IRAQ-WAS-NOT-RESPONSIBLE-FOR-9/11!!!"
Guest Posted June 22, 2004 Report Posted June 22, 2004 quote:Originally posted by street: quote: We are now fighting the terrorists where they live, and with our trained military personnel, and the terrorists are dying, as they should. The only thing they understand is terror, so we shall bring it to them in spades, and if they dare to attack us again, they will regret the fact that they were ever born, and a lot of their countryman will as well. We are the ONLY super power, and if you attack us, and kill our civilians, prepare to die. Because our vengance is swift, powerful and permanent... This whole mental attitude presented, in the aforementioned quote,IS TRUE TERRORISM!! And, in the end, it will be STOPPED, I assure you! the only question here, is: "How long it will take; How much damage this mind set must impose, upon this nation, before the PEOPLE rise up and stop it; and, What will be required, to put an end to it!!" Preach what you will, but people, like yourself, are a DIRECT threat to our WHOLE way of life, here in AMERICA. Much MORE of a threat, than ALQUEDA ever was! There is NO justification for this mentality, which reflects the bush administration's mind set. The IMPORTANT thing NOT mentioned ?? "IRAQ-WAS-NOT-RESPONSIBLE-FOR-9/11!!!" I love how you guys move the goalposts. This is NOT a wae about 911, this is a war on TERRORISM..... GET IT? Saddam supported terrorist organizations around the world, INCLUDING Al Quaeda. There is NO excuse targeting civilians, there is NO excuse kidnapping and beheading civilian contractors. These terrorists are ANIMALS and should be dealt with as such. They deserve death, nothing less, nothing more... This is NOT a war about 911, this is a WAR ON TERRORISM in all it's guises, and if you feel that we are somehow the terrorists in this scenario, then you are the one with a lack of perception on this whole deal. You are seeing conspiracies everywhere,there is ONLY one conspiracy, to destroy terrorism. That is the ends, and it is not pretty, and it ain't nice, and it ain't gonna be short, but it is going to be won, and the terrorists are going to die until there are no more terrorists.
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