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quote:

Originally posted by Takvah:

Kalshion all the networks covered it live.

I think Kerry was articulate and showed that he had a firm grasp on the issues that face the President. Mr. Bush was as always working from the emotion rather than the substance. How many times can you hear "it's hard work" as an excuse for utter and complete failure? Talk about screwing the pooch.

Firm grasp? yeah, right, sure thing.

He was lying through his teeth half the time, and telling the same old lies that he tells on the campaign trail.

It is hard work, but I wish he would have stopped saying it, because it did sound like an excuse after like the 6th time.

Adn Iraq is NOT a total and utter failure.

Will you knock that chicken Little crap off.

Good grief, enough is enough already. Iraq is doing MUCH better then it was, it's not paradise by any means, but the job is getting done.

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I don't think that Bush did well at all. He would get very nervous while Kerry was speaking, and he has almost no public speaking skills.

He would even at times begin to talk less than a second after Kerry finished speaking, sometimes even before. He appeared very anxious and nervous.

Also all of his arguments were mostly aimed at reminding people that Kerry changed his mind on the war in Iraq and other important issues. It is alright to change your mind on an issue if your old choice was wrong. Stubbornness will get you nowhere.

Bush's speaches were mostly about opinion and did not have many supporting facts. Kerry had all of the facts, and quotes from important people in politics and the world. Kerry was also very calm and clear about what he was trying to say.

I feel that Kerry did much better in this debate than Bush. Bush did not appear to have any idea what he was talking about, but Kerry appeared to have the new ideas that this country needs to win this war.

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quote:

Originally posted by Jaguar:

It is hard work, but I wish he would have stopped saying it, because it did sound like an excuse after like the 6th time.

Well, they both came away with their catch phrases tonight. Bush: "It's tough work" and Kerry: "I have a plan" (I just wish he'd tell us WTF it is).

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THe other thing that bugged me about this debate, besides Kerry not understanding North Korea or what is actually going on in Iraq, then again, Kerry HAS to say Iraq is a mess to get elected.

Sorry, I digress.

This debate was BORING, Jim Lehrer, from PBS, has got to be one of the most BORING press people that I have ever seen, YAWN!!!

Kerry was spouting off like he was reading from a book, and Bush was talking like he'd lost his book, Bush stayed on topic, and had a firm grasp on what needed to be done, and he did jump Kerry when he said something stupid, but it was BORING, with a capital B.

I was looking for a "their you go again" Or "I do not think my opponents youth should be a factor in this campaign" etc.

Where are the zingers? The memorable lines, the one piece that just jumped out and grabbed you?

I mean in 2000 it was Gore getting in Bushes face.

This was just a GREAT big YAWNER for me.....

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quote:

Originally posted by LostInSpace:

quote:

Originally posted by Jaguar:

It is hard work, but I wish he would have stopped saying it, because it did sound like an excuse after like the 6th time.

Well, they both came away with their catch phrases tonight. Bush: "It's tough work" and Kerry: "I have a plan" (I just wish he'd tell us WTF it is).


Expect that after he's elected.. if he's elected.. which I highly DOUBT

quote:

Originally posted by TheBunny:

I don't think that Bush did well at all. He would get very nervous while Kerry was speaking, and he has almost no public speaking skills.

He would even at times begin to talk less than a second after Kerry finished speaking, sometimes even before. He appeared very anxious and nervous.

Also all of his arguments were mostly aimed at reminding people that Kerry changed his mind on the war in Iraq and other important issues. It is alright to change your mind on an issue if your old choice was wrong. Stubbornness will get you nowhere.

Bush's speaches were mostly about opinion and did not have many supporting facts. Kerry had all of the facts, and quotes from important people in politics and the world. Kerry was also very calm and clear about what he was trying to say.

I feel that Kerry did much better in this debate than Bush. Bush did not appear to have any idea what he was talking about, but Kerry appeared to have the new ideas that this country needs to win this war.

Bunny, do you bother to check the fact's against what the Candidate said?

Cause if you had, you would've come to the same conclusion the rest of us have

Kerry lied, through and through.

He lied about his stance on the war

He lied about his support of our troops

He lied about the failing of the war

He lied so many time's that, like I said, I'd be a BILLIONIER by now

And I still ask this, what ever happened to Sandy Burger?

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Did anyone pay attention to Kerry's wife? She looked liked she was on valium or whatever they use today to shut the wife up and keep her out of the way.

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quote:

Originally posted by Jaguar:

I was looking for a "their you go again" Or "I do not think my opponents youth should be a factor in this campaign" etc.

Where are the zingers? The memorable lines, the one piece that just jumped out and grabbed you?

I mean in 2000 it was Gore getting in Bushes face.

This was just a GREAT big YAWNER for me.....

32 pages of rules fixed that.

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quote:

Originally posted by LostInSpace:

Did anyone pay attention to Kerry's wife? She looked liked she was on valium or whatever they use today to shut the wife up and keep her out of the way.

Now that was fascinating, I have never seen Laura Bush and Terasa together.

The suits they were wearing made a real sharp contrast.

Laura's looked classy, and terasa's looked trashy, and they looked like the exact same suit.

I am not sure what the heck is up with that, and terasa reminds me of Hillary, just SKERRY!!! Those legs, that's just Hillary all over, and those hips, again, Hillary all over.

Freak me out, there was such a HUGE contrast between them.

If anything, that was the only real good thing about this debate, Seeing the first lady and the candidate's wife that could be the first lady standing side by side.

Terasa Skerry and Laura Bush what a contrast that is.

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It's alright to change you're stance's on stuff

But when you FAIL to support you're own troops just so you could get elected when the time come's shows that you are unfit for command

That's my belief, my belief is that he INTENTIONALLY voted against the 87 bill so that he could bash Bush and get elected... but it's not working, you see many people are now realizing that Kerry voted AGAINST arming our troops adequently and yet Bush voted FOR it..

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quote:

Originally posted by Kalshion:

Expect that after he's elected.. if he's elected.. which I highly DOUBT

You mean to say they Kerry is going to do what he claims Bush has done with Iraq: Claiming he had a plan and he didn't.

Wow there's a shocker.

I bet he does that over and over again at the next two debates. I have a plan to get every american working and I have plan to make america more secure than it has ever been. But of course we will never hear the particulars of any of his plans.

I mean look at it this way, you have two generals and you need to pick one that you want to lead a campaign. One who has laid out a plan before you or the other who says he has a plan and when you put him on the job will implement his plan sight unseen.

Maybe one of you Kerry supporters can help us in this matter and fill us in on what the particulars of his plans are. To tell you the truth I really can't tell if Kerry would be better than Bush because I have nothing to compare against the Bush plans.

[ 09-30-2004, 11:51 PM: Message edited by: LostInSpace ]

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I trust Kerry as far as I can throw him, when someone says, I have a plan, but is unwilling to share it, I get a bit suspicious.

When he finally does come up with a 4 point plan for Iraq, it sounds exactly like what Bush is already doing, except for the international alliances with Germany and France, because that is EXACTLY who Kerry was talking about.

That is NOT exactly what I would call original.

I don't think Kerry has had an original thought, or a principled stand in his life.

But again, this debate SUCKED the big one as far as I am concerned, a TOTAL disapointment.

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quote:

Originally posted by Jaguar:

But again, this debate SUCKED the big one as far as I am concerned, a TOTAL disapointment.

Yeah, I was hoping it was going to be more free form rather than totaly scripted. Bush would have had more of a chance to dig into Kerry. This debate was a total injustice to the American people if you ask me. I guess gone are those days of rough and tumble debates.

As for the third debate, I wouldn't have let a CBS reporter anywhere near these things.

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quote:

originally posted by Kalshion

I was switching between CNN and Fox new's at home and CNN NEVER covered it LIVE

CNN is not an airwave television broadcast. What are called "networks" are the traditional airwave broadcast people. Meaning you can pick it up with a black and white TV with Rabbit ears.

I watched the entire thing on CBS. Just because it had the best reception tonight.

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CBS had it? hmmm and here I Thought they'd still have there head's up there ***

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Yes, CBS had it. The whole thing live and uninterrrupted. I have now flipped over to ABC and they are still doing live commentary.

Edit: But I guess they got rushed. They just switched to Jimmy Kimmel.

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I don't have cable, so I had to watch one of the networks, and CBS was the only one that I could get as well.

I turned it off as soon as I heard Dan Blather hit the speaker.

I don't watch television AT ALL, so this was very strange for my kids, to watch daddy sitting in front of the TV actually watching something live.

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See my edit above.

They didn't stick with Dan Rather though. There were plenty of other commentators dissecting the debate and saying that it will take America several days to mull this debate over and come to a conclusion.

Golly Gee thanks Mr. Talking Head.

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Bleh.

As for the debate I think Bush was status quo... he was low key in his responses and behaved like a child during Kerry's rebuttals jittering, chewing on his lip and otherwise looking uncomfortable. If that had been a press conference rather than a debate (and Presidents should be suject to these kinds of questions daily... George isn't because he doesn't handle the press) he would have stomped off all pissed and that would have been the end of it.

Kerry on the otherhand who has been totally off message for months now had an opportunity to articulate himself. Now I don't care what the people on this forum have to say about the flip flops. I could name 50 things that this President has flip flopped on... I am talking about the substance of the debate. I am talking about the perceptions of the candidates and their ability to make points. There will not be major poll swings until Kerry shows consistency by making this a 3-0 debate season and continuing to hammer his points.

Now I can't wait for Cheney v. Edwards. Poor Dick wanted to do it sitting down... guess he can't handle standing for 90 minutes, his ankles must swell (what a picture of vitality). Or maybe he understands that he is old, small and weak looking next to the vibrant Edwards. Oh well should be interesting.

[ 10-01-2004, 10:12 AM: Message edited by: Takvah ]

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I'm going to make this quick because I just don't have the time right now.

In retrospect, I think both candidates in this debate were mediocre (due to the scripting of it?). Stumblimg a few times in their responses especially when bringing up Osama Bin Laden and Sadam Hussein (mixing the names up).

Kerry to me stood there seeming Arrogant and Elitist with his botox treatment and fake tan (going for the looks rather than substance much like his "I have a Plan") while Bush was more personable speaking directly to the average american.

As for Edwards and Cheney, I wouldn't go around making fun of someone wanting to sit down for 90 minutes. To give you an example: here in NYC, which is mostly democratic as you well know, the majority of us take public transportation. I ride the subway and let me tell you there's is not one day entering that train where it's not a football skirmish for a seat when the train doors open. Now, I'm talking about from the very young to very old male or female there's not one that would not knock you aside or down to get a seat and if there's just one seat left watch out! Just for a 30 minute ride. So much for democrat social behavior it seems to get lost when it comes to sitting down. So I don't think whether you are sitting or standing during a debate is a very big deal there are more imporant issues to concentrate on than that.

BTW: I'm still waiting for one of you Kerry supporters to tell me the specifics of Kerry's plan. Don't tell he's going to follow the plans of Reagan or whoever (because of his vague reference last night). I don't want to hear about the policies of George Washington, Lincoln, Roosevelt etc... They had their day and did what they needed to do in their day and age. This is a new age now and things are much different. I want to know what KERRY himself has planned point for point. (This is the only reason why I was disappointed in Bush last night. I was hoping he'd push Kerry into telling us what the specifics of his plans are).

This makes me laugh LONDON, England (AP) -- John Kerry scored points against George W. Bush on the Iraq war during their televised debate, but both men avoided the kind of gaffe that could be a turning point in the presidential election, foreign analysts and media said Friday.

This is the thing that makes me laugh the hardest:

"Kerry seemed to show that he had the stuff to be president. He had more facts in his head, and he was able to explain his position in Iraq," Strothe said. "He is back in the race. This will help him in the race."

Facts!? What facts? Position? Kerry's position on Iraq is basically the same as Bush's. These people did watch the same debate I did didn't they? I guess these people must have ignored the fact that Kerry voted against the 87bil to better arm our troops so they can do an even better job.

[ 10-01-2004, 11:56 AM: Message edited by: LostInSpace ]

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Its alright to change your mind on an issue, but not to change your position on an issue.

When a leader changes his position on one issue several times he loses any credibility, for it shows indecision from part of the leader or worse, that the intel the leader is receiving is weak, showing weakness not on the leader's part but from the institutions in which he relies in to make informed decisions.

A leader changing his mind can be shown by not wanting to sign a certain law then signing it later on after getting better information.. but not changing his position on a law by voting FOR it and then AGAINST it just because it no longer suited his agenda.

Once you start something you have to follow it through.

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At least Bush had an answer for every question that Kerry tossed

And the funny thing is, Kerry had a hard time countering what Bush said

I voted for the war before I voted against it -

Kerry

We will never agree on how this turned out

Our resident liberal's think Bush did a bad job

Our resident conservatire's think Bush did a great job

Our resident neutrals (undecided) think both Bush and Kerry did an ok job

My take on the subject, Kerry kept on trying to Lie but every lie he threw out Bush had a counter for it

Don't forget, Kerry was apart of the Debate team that's why he looked so good on the stage. Bush however wasn't part of any such team, so I personally think they did ok but it still burns me up that Kerry kept saying "I have a plan"

Well, if you have a plan... TELL US YOU TRESSIONUS TRAITOR!

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Kerry has a plan: "To REMOVE an incompetant phycho misfit from a position of power"

Only plan he needs. Anyone in their right mind, could see the nervous little kid, caught with his finger in the cookie jar, trying to justify his incompetant behavior.

I enjoyed the hell out of the debate, It was quite refreshing, to see bush stumbling all over himself

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Mixed Messages on Winning the War on Terror

ÔÇ£CanÔÇÖt Win The War On TerrorÔÇØ Asked ÔÇ£Can we win [the war on terror]?ÔÇØ Bush said, ÔÇ£I donÔÇÖt think you can win it. But I think you can create conditions so that the - those who use terror as a tool are less acceptable in parts of the world.ÔÇØ [NBC, ÔÇ£The Today Show,ÔÇØ 8/30/04]

Mixed Messages on Osama Bin Laden

QUESTION: Do you want bin Laden dead?

BUSH: I want justice. And thereÔÇÖs an old poster out west, that I recall, that said, ÔÇ£Wanted, Dead or Alive.ÔÇØ [bush Remarks, 9/17/01, emphasis added]

BUSH: And [Osama Bin Laden is] just  hes a person who has now been marginalized. His network is -- his host government has been destroyed. Hes the ultimate parasite who found weakness, exploited it, and met his matchSo I dont know where he is. Nor -- you know, I just dont spend that much time on him really, to be honest with you. II truly am not that concerned about him. [bush Remarks, 3/13/02]

Mixed Messages on Protecting the Homeland

Bush Thought Homeland Security Cabinet Position Was "Just Not NecessaryÔÇØ And Blocked Its Creation. In October 2001, White House Press Secretary Ari Fleischer said Bush opposed creating Office of Homeland Security position for Ridge. "[T]he president has suggested to members of Congress that they do not need to make this a statutory post, that he [Ridge] does not need Cabinet rank, for example, there does not need to be a Cabinet-level Office of Homeland Security is because there is such overlap among the various agencies, because every agency of the government has security concerns," Fleischer said. [White House Press Briefing, 10/24/01]

REALITY CHECK!! on who is the REAL flip flop, or liar, you choose...

While Bush Failed to Have a Plan, Kerry Will Make it A Priority To End Nuclear Weapons Programs In North Korea, Kerry will make it a priority to end nuclear weapons programs in states like North Korea and Iran. As President, Kerry will continue the six party negotiations, but will also be prepared to talk directly with North Korea. John Kerry would adopt a comprehensive approach based on the hard realities that confront us. While Kerry would maintain all options, including military ones, he would be willing to negotiate on a range of issues of concern to both parties, including North KoreaÔÇÖs concerns for its security and economic development. [NYT, 9/12/04], [Washington Post, 7/9/04] [Washington Post, 8/6/04]

North Korean Nuclear Capability Has Quadrupled Under BushÔÇÖs Watch While He Sat By and Failed to Do Anything. The Bush administration's erratic handling of the North Korean nuclear crisis has served only to create confusion and put North Korea's despotic leader, Kim Jong Il, in the driver's seat. Bush initially said he would ÔÇ£not tolerate nuclear weapons in North Korea,ÔÇØ yet since he took office, North KoreaÔÇÖs nuclear capability has ÔÇ£quadrupled,ÔÇØ with U.S. intelligence services estimating that Pyongyang now has fuel for up to eight nuclear weapons. According to Bush Administration officials, ÔÇ£The United States has determined that North Korea is working on new ballistic missile systems designed to deliver nuclear warheads and that it is testing the technology by proxy in Iran.ÔÇØ [ABC, ÔÇ£This Week, 9/12/04; Christian Science Monitor, 9/15/04; Associated Press, 8/5/04; NYT, 9/12/04]

Former Bush Special Envoy to North Korea Said Bush Lacked An Effective Strategy To Deal With North Korea. ÔÇ£Charles Pritchard, formerly Secretary of State Colin Powell's top official dealing with North Korea, has warned for months that "the White House lacks an effective strategy to dissuade North Korea from building up its nuclear arms." Under Bush's watch, "North Korea's nuclear arsenal, which was once thought to number one or two weapons, appears to be growing substantially." According to Pritchard, the situation has deteriorated because "the administration has neither offered much of a carrot nor wielded a stick." The administration has refused to engage North Korea in direct negotiations or "put the North Koreans on notice that further developments will trigger economic sanctions or perhaps even military actions." [united Press International, 9/21/04]

Where is the FACTS??? gimme the FACTS? ok..here are just a FEW of what i have availiable!!!

[ 10-01-2004, 03:23 PM: Message edited by: street ]

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Very ammusing street

Now, here's my question, what ever happened to Sandy Burger?

quote:

Originally posted by street:

Kerry has a plan: "To REMOVE an incompetant phycho misfit from a position of power"


Not sure if that's Sarcasm or not, but in politic's I don't like Sarcasm.. it get's people killed..

I find Kerry to be more a Phycho than Bush

And I hardly find that a PLAN, I find that more like a personnel Vendetta...

I want him to tell me EXACTLY what he is going to do. Until then I REFUSE to even look in his direction

He say's he wants to get the UN involevd

Uh huh, it's like I said.. The terrorist's want this guy in office because the moment he get's in office and the moment he use's the UN, WE WILL LOSE THIS WAR and we'll bombing galore in the US

Check the fact's street

He wants to get rid of the Patriot Act

Right now because of that act we are SAFER (no attack's since 9/11, we've captured a lot of people trying to cross the border with explosive's and such in there cars)

He wants to get rid of bush's Tax Cuts

Thanks to those Tax Cuts my father has more money to use on food and supplys

He want's to down grade our military (typical liberal)

Right now, thanks to Bush, our military is stronger than it was when CLINTON was in office. And yet you want this guy, who is willing to DOWN GRADE AND CUT military spending, to be in office? How do you expect the US to be protected if our military is cut down?

[ 10-01-2004, 04:08 PM: Message edited by: Kalshion ]

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