Victory for Iraqi's

[LostInSpace]

BAGHDAD, Iraq (CNN) -- Polls have closed in Iraq's first free election in a half century, with officials reporting a higher than expected turnout of registered voters amid attacks and threats of violence.

These insurgents are un-believable:

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There were eight other types of attacks as well, including one in which insurgents identified Iraqi civilians as having voted -- based on the ink on their fingers -- and threw grenades at them, killing them.

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This isn't a surprise:

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In former president Saddam Hussein's hometown of Tikrit, polling stations were virtually empty.

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[LostInSpace]

Here's a statement from LtCol Oliver L. North in which I agree with: Washington, D.C. - By February 1, it will have happened twice in less than four months, though it is more rare than an eclipse of the sun, a shooting star or a volcano eruption. It ought to be celebrated as a magnificent, historic event, but no: the January 30 Iraqi election, like the October election in Afghanistan signifying the birth of a new democracy, and the first vote of a long-oppressed people is being presented by the media as a dangerous event to be avoided at all costs.

For months, the so-called mainstream media has struggled to depict the Iraqi elections as a fools' errand foisted on the people of Iraq by George Bush. When I was in London earlier this week, the BBC and many European newspapers were predicting an "invalid outcome" because "the Sunni population is boycotting the vote." On Tuesday, Senate opponents of the President's Iraq policy lined up behind former Ku Klux Klansman Robert Byrd and Teddy "the swimmer" Kennedy to pillory Dr. Condoleeza Rice - and declare Iraq to be "a quagmire...a total failure."

I was listening to Wolf Blitzer this morning on CNN and he almost sounded dispondent that there was not alot of violence. Every question he posed to a guest speaker on his time slot was couched in questions of violence. I eventualy turned him off with disgust. Nothing not one word of good from him about alot of the Iraqi people, from the sick to healthy, who showed up to vote.

[Guest DocHoliday]

In all truth, we do not know, who or how many voted. Being as we are, in a different part of the world. The whole thing could be staged and we'd never know it.

But on a more serious note: the problem people have with forceful institution of democracy (even though we both know it's the best system so far) is that it did not take into account the current culture of a given country (especially the ones that had the opposite before).

Democracy comes from within, not from outside. Just like freedom. If a person does not feel free, outside freedom doesn't really influence that right away. And the other way around: if I feel free, it doesn't matter what kind of system I have (at least in theory)... In Iraq, democracy is just a bold experiment.

This is why people expect violence generally, but media as you implied, but didn't say, actively LOOKS for it... to boost ratings.

Cheers,

Doc

[Guest]

The Kurds have been a Democratic society since the end of the Gulf War, the Shiites are excited because they are a majority and may actually get some power now, and the Sunnis are of course PO'd because they have ALWAYS been a minority and cnould only hold power through force.

They are now SOL, 80% of the people in Iraq are thrilled with a Democratic process, if the Sunnis are PO'd, well, too fricking bad....

[Guest DocHoliday]

The Kurds do not have their own country (unless you can point it on a map), so they are cannot be democratic society but are instead (as they were before) spread over Iraq, Turkey and so other countries, basically at the mercy of their respective gov'ts...

"They are now SOL, 80% of the people in Iraq are thrilled with a Democratic process, if the Sunnis are PO'd, well, too fricking bad...."

Where do you get your data? No offense, but if it's the media, you cannot be sure... I think it's more like:

- 20% are thrilled since they are probably rich and already close to power,

- 40% are totally confused,

- 20% are afraid for their lives and

- 20% are happy, because now they can get away with any kind of terrorist shit...

Especially after US troops are eventually kicked out/asked diplomatically to leave the territory of a sovereign nation. I mean, as time passes more and more US soldiers will die in more and more unnecessary situations...

Mark my words, within 5 years, Iraq will again be a dictatorship, because the people just won't know what to do with democracy...

Cheers,

[Guest]

Sorry Doc,

But the Kurds in northern Iraq, whom we have been helping since the Gulf War are indeed a Democratic society, they literally are a state of Iraq, just as the Shiites will have and the Sunnis.

The Iraqis are going to build a Federal government, just as we have, with states, just as we have, with their own governments.

I get my info straight from the horses mouth, so to speak, from people that are there.

The people of Iraq are excited and thrilled about the Democratic process, and I know that it is not only going to be just fine, but that the insurgents are now totally illigitemate, and will lose now that the Iraqi people have spoken.

THe people there do indeed know what to do with a Democracy, and a dictatorship is now IMPOSSIBLE, because the people are now armed, and will NOT put up with another dictator. And the people are armed with REAL weapons, AK's and assault rifles of every sort, they will defend themselves and their families from anyone who tries to become a dictator and do what Saddam did.

I totally disagree with you, the Iraqi's do indeed want democracy, and they are going to have it, as yesterday showed.

[Kalshion]

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Originally posted by LostInSpace:

I was listening to Wolf Blitzer this morning on CNN and he almost sounded dispondent that there was not alot of violence. Every question he posed to a guest speaker on his time slot was couched in questions of violence. I eventualy turned him off with disgust. Nothing not one word of good from him about alot of the Iraqi people, from the sick to healthy, who showed up to vote.

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How the heck can you find that surprising? You ARE talking about CNN here (Communist New's Network)

Listened to Mister Bill on fox new's, he had a few things to say about that wacko (no, not the child melister)

I actually find it insulting that the only thing the main stream media is capible of is false reporting and corruptiveness, it's very sad really

But, anywho, I'm glad the Iraqi's voted in this election and didn't let the terrorist's win

Now, perhaps we'll see a bit more change.. i hope

[Guest DocHoliday]

Jaguar, I honestly hope you're right, but I just don't see it happening.

[Guest]

ABC News Australia

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Iraqi villagers kill 5 insurgents

By Middle East correspondent Mark Willacy

The residents of a small Iraqi village have killed five insurgents who had attacked them for voting in last weekend's national elections.

Several other insurgents were also wounded.

The insurgents raided the village of al-Mudhiryah south of Baghdad after warning its inhabitants not to vote in the election.

The villagers fought back, killing five of the insurgents and wounding eight others.

The insurgents' cars were then set alight.

Al-Mudhiryah's tribal sheikh says his people are sick of being threatened by Islamic extremists.

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ROFLMAO!!!

Now why haven't we heard about this in the US.

Freedom is spreading, the Iraqi's will not put up with the Insurgents for much longer.

The Insurgents have LOST, and they are going to die at Iraqi hands.

Ya just GOTTA LOVE IT!!!

[Guest Remo Williams]

You'll never hear that in the US or Europe it pisses to many people off to see the truth, and realize what a mistake it was to deny help to a people that were suffering under a dictator.

The main opposition to liberating Iraq was France since they were the ones that were going to lose all the sweet oil and construction deals Saddam was going to give them for opposing the US in the UN. So they drummed up as much anti-liberation propaganda as possible and spread it across Europe to a public they knew would just eat it up without question. Then when that failed in some cases they started threatening EU membership to Eastern Europe EU hopefuls.

You wont see that in the news either go figure, but of course thatÔÇÖs not what they want to hear. Then they would know the truth and that would never work.

[Lotharr]

Hey guys...

Not really glad to see things change yet they stay the same.

If you think that the troubles are over in Iraq your just wrong. If you think the insurgency is over youÔÇÖre very wrong. Indeed, Wolfowitz himself recently worried in a congressional hearing of what a ÔÇ£build up of expectationsÔÇØ could mean unfulfilled.

Guerrilla fighters donÔÇÖt attack strength but still did some damage on election day. Many Kurds thought they were also voting on founding an independent state. The Shia are appointing Al-Sistani to lead them. IÔÇÖm no expert but a lap dog of America is something I donÔÇÖt think America will find.

Put aside the reason for war were supposed to be defensive..total BS.and focus on the fact that now the previously oppressed are now taking a dominate political role. A democracy founded on such precarious foundations is an extremely fragile proposition.

Take a look at http://www.denverpost.com/Stories/0,1413,3...2688749,00.html

You think troubles are over think again.

[Kalshion]

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Originally posted by Lotharr:

If you think that the troubles are over in Iraq your just wrong. If you think the insurgency is over youÔÇÖre very wrong. Indeed, Wolfowitz himself recently worried in a congressional hearing of what a ÔÇ£build up of expectationsÔÇØ could mean unfulfilled.

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Do yourself a favor and re-read EVERY SINGLE REPLY, no one here has said ANYTHING that the troubles are over

[Guest Remo Williams]

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Originally posted by Captain_Proton:

Im sure this has been posted before but I didn't see it and I want to hear everyones opinion.

What do you think of the war in Iraq?

The most simple answer in 4 words:

Biggest success since Vietnam.

I think it IS Vietnam all over again. We're fighting a war we never should have started, we're losing alot of men for really nothing and we're spending alot of money that we don't have. Mr.Bush and his compulsive spending disorder. Yeah, I know Saddam Hussien was a bad man but we should've left that country alone, see? Almost the same case as Vietnam.

Vietnam: bad communist country did bad things, we have to go in and blow the hell out of it, we lose alot of guys, we lose more guys, we send in more guys, we lose those guys, we pull out, we lose.

Iraq: bad terrorist country, did bad things, we have to go in and blow it up we lose alot of guys... ... see what I mean? It just hasn't gotten as bad yet, and I hope it doesn't, but it seems like it will.

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