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Lords fuel climate change row with blow to Kyoto


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The Scotsman

quote:

GERRI PEEV

POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT

Key points

ÔÇó Lords report finds Kyoto targets will make little change to global warming

ÔÇó Report echoes US criticisms of ecological treaty's economic damage

ÔÇó White House chairman predicts compromise on climate issues at start of G8

Key quote

"The Kyoto Protocol makes little difference to rates of global warming and has a naive compliance mechanism, which can only deter countries from signing up to subsequent tighter emissions targets" - House of Lords report

Story in full THE Kyoto Protocol has been rubbished by a heavyweight committee of peers, on the day that Tony Blair opens the G8 summit with a focus on global warming.

A cross-party House of Lords report today finds that the Kyoto targets will make "little difference" to the pace of global warming and has called for Gordon Brown, the Chancellor, to calculate how much it is costing Britain.

The report will deal a damaging blow both to Mr Blair's attempt to present a "consensus" behind global warming, and demands that the United States agrees to Kyoto in a G8 declaration tomorrow.

In a report seemingly timed to have maximum impact on the G8, which is due to release its climate change communique tomorrow, the peers said that the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change, the United Nations-backed environmental watchdog, is tainted by "political interference".

Policymakers were too focused on mitigating climate change, rather than adapting to it, they said.

Lord Lawson, a former chancellor and committee member, was critical of the way that Kyoto targets for greenhouse gas emissions had been "subcontracted" to the IPCC, which he described as "very, very flawed".

An issue so central to Britain's economy should be decided by the government, he said. "I can tell you that I was astonished when the Treasury witness said that the Treasury really wasn't involved in any serious way in this at all," he said.

"When I was chancellor, it would have been unthinkable on a matter as important as economic affairs - important in public expenditure terms - that the Treasury was not making a very thorough analysis of the issue."

The committee expressed sympathy with the United States, whose Senate voted unanimously against any climate-change treaty that could damage the economy without imposing conditions on developing countries.

Instead of trying to coerce the US president, George Bush, into signing up to the Kyoto Protocol, the UK should abandon the treaty and explore alternatives based on agreements over carbon-free technology.

"We are concerned that the international negotiations on climate-change reduction will be ineffective because of the preoccupation with setting emissions targets," the report said.

"The Kyoto Protocol makes little difference to rates of global warming and has a naive compliance mechanism, which can only deter countries from signing up to subsequent tighter emissions targets."

Since the Kyoto Protocol was signed in 1997, scientists have established that it would simply mean global temperature rising by 2.35┬░C rather than 2.5┬░C by 2100.

The House of Lords called for a carbon tax to replace the climate-change levy, while warning that policies such as saving energy and renewables were based on "dubious assumptions".

The report was angrily attacked by environmental campaigners yesterday. Duncan McLaren, the chief executive of Friends of the Earth Scotland, said there was no obsession with targets.

"The idea that we will make progress on tackling climate change without having some sort of targets is ludicrous. Without targets, there is no incentive."

Meanwhile, Mr Bush has come a long way towards agreeing with campaigners on some of the basic issues. He said in an ITV interview on Monday that the planet is warming and "obviously" man is partly responsible.

He is likely to repeat this in a G8 declaration tomorrow, in what may be described by UK ministers as a significant concession. But in Washington, aides have rounded on the European consensus on Kyoto. The president's top environmental adviser yesterday attacked European countries for their "narrow" view of global warming.

Jim Connaughton, the chairman of the White House, predicted that the G8 summit starting today in Gleneagles will end without narrowing the gap between the US and Europe over climate change and the Kyoto Protocol, to cut emissions.

Pre-summit talks to prepare the ground for a final declaration are heading towards division, the adviser said. "There's a reflection of the fact that a number of the countries are proceeding with Kyoto and some other countries are pursuing their own strategy," Mr Connaughton told US journalists before the president took off for Scotland.

Climate change and its causes is a contentious issue, dividing nations and scientists. One puzzling anomaly is the Franz Josef glacier in New Zealand, which has been growing, rather than receding, at a rate of 12ft a day, apparently bucking the expectations that glaciers would recede in a warmer environment.

The British government has argued that there is a clear consensus, which the US must accept. But the implementation of Kyoto four months ago has revived the debate, showing that the facts remain in dispute.

The G8 will discuss climate change tomorrow. The draft communique, which has been widely leaked, simply restates the general principles - and speaks of the need to curb greenhouse gas emissions. Ministers are hoping that the US will agree to an ongoing dialogue with India and China, who in 1997 were considered too poor to sign Kyoto. There will also be agreement on the importance of new fuel technologies.


Now THAT has just got to hurt Nomad BADLY!!

Now the UK House of Lords is saying NO way jose', forget this nonsense...

Gotta LOVE it, READ the fine print, and you'll say no too, JUST as the US Senate did.

Sometimes I REALLY, REALLY LOVE the Brits!!

Oh and this nonsense that Bush said what he said, I want to hear the ENTIRE interview, because something has been taken OUT of context.

Because we have NOTHING to do with Global Warming, IF it is actually happening, the amount of greenhouse gasses that we emit are NOTHING compared to what nature puts out.

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When manmade CO2 and other greenhouse gasses is 0.28% of what the TOTAL greenhouse gasses are, I am NOT going to freak out and yell like some chicken little.

Also the military has contigency plans for EVERY scenario that they can think up, no matter HOW RIDICULOUS or unlikely, including a dramatic climate change scenario.

THis whole Global Warming thing, and man is the cause is completely and TOTALLY ridiculous.

The earth's climate changes, this is a fact of life, and no matter WHAT we do, we are not going to STOP the earth from doing what it does.

So, destroy 30% of our economy, and NOT make ANY effect on Global warming, because we ARE NOT CAUSING it, or listen to the REAL scientists, who KNOW that Kyoto, or ANY other treaty will NOT stop the earth from doing what it does...

You elitists and your socialist NONSENSE...

Of course 141 countries signed it, they have extra POLLUTION credits to sell, they don't have to worry about anything but raking in the dough from the first world countries that would HAVE TO BUY them.

Kyoto is a socialist scheme to milk 1st world countries of money, so that the 3rd world countries can rake it in and still starve....

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Given the scientific data, Kyoto would have little to no affect on actual worldwide CO2 emissions. Of the top 10 polluting cities in the world, 9 would remain unaffected by Kyoto.

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quote:

So, destroy 30% of our economy, and NOT make ANY effect on Global warming, because we ARE NOT CAUSING it, or listen to the REAL scientists, who KNOW that Kyoto, or ANY other treaty will NOT stop the earth from doing what it does...


REAL scientist?...RFLMAO

It is a shame. One, of nominal education, can have the audacity to to make such a reference toward "PROFESSORS" within their OWN specialized fields.

REALLY!!!

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quote:

Originally posted by nomad:

You mind citing the source of this supposed 0.28% ?

From the Earth's Institute of Columbia University

Excerpt:

Carbon dioxide levels today are nearly 30% more than they were prior to the industrial revolution. What is truly unprecedented about current carbon dioxide levels is the speed in which they have risen. In the millions of years of known geological history, the Earth has never experienced such a rapid rise. The signature of human influence is unequivocal.There is no doubt that we have caused this change to the atmosphere from burning fossil fuels.


Unequivocal?

ROFLMAO!!!

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quote:

Originally posted by Prez:

Ov vey! You environmental wackos are starting to remind me of McCarthy and his obssession with communists. LOL!

Hmm, I just had a thought. What if these wackos along with the politicians really know that it's mostly a natural phenomena and cannot be stopped and to put a smoke screen over everything to make the people feel good and secure that something is being done with the promise of it getting better by their intiatives.

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quote:

Originally posted by LostInSpace:

quote:

Originally posted by Prez:

Ov vey! You environmental wackos are starting to remind me of McCarthy and his obssession with communists. LOL!

Hmm, I just had a thought. What if these wackos along with the politicians really know that it's mostly a natural phenomena and cannot be stopped and to put a smoke screen over everything to make the people feel good and secure that something is being done with the promise of it getting better by their intiatives.


LOS, that is EXACTLY what is happening.

They DO know better, but they are socialists to the core.

Kyoto is a socialists dream, take from the rich, the ones that will have limited pollution credits, because they use them, and give to the poor, the third world nations that DON'T use their pollution credits, and are therefore able to SELL them to the highest bidder from the first world "polluters".

This is also a POWER thing, if there is a problem, then the government HAS to fix it. Right? So the governments give grants to scientists that will "prove" that global warming is caused by man, and therefore the government will HAVE to have power in order to DEAL with the problem.

People that say the Iraqi war is this, IGNORE the fact that Global Warming caused by man, is EXACTLY this.

I find it hilarious as h$ll actually....

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quote:

Originally posted by Capn Crunch:

Jaguar, you are TRULY The Lord of The Flies. You fit the role perfectly.

And that means exactly what?

Because I know that Global warming being caused by man is NOT only complete and utter nonsense, but a political movement to create a worldwide socialist movement that will take money from first world countries and give it to third world ones? Just as Kyoto does.

BTW, a fuller explanation in your posts would be a good idea, and changing your avatar would be an even better one...

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quote:

Originally posted by Capn Crunch:

Jaguar, you are TRULY The Lord of The Flies. You fit the role perfectly.

What you need to do is read up a little like on Earth's historical climate past etc.. With all the fear mongering, I'm surprised they are not using Venice as a wake up call to us causing global warming. However, those of us with a modicum of intelligence know the real reason why Venice is being flooded.

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