Legalisation

[Guest $iLk]

Since I have called for rehab instead of prison - I would think you would have agreed Cruis.In

The logic is very simple... legalize - then rehabilitate using the tax money collected. It's a win-win.

[Soback]

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Originally posted by Matchoo:

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Originally posted by Soback:

If an individual makes an error in his decission, it doesn't mean that that error was not made in his own best interest. When a child burns his hand touching the stove, you as an adult know that the decission to touch that stove is wrong one, the child doesn't, once he touches the stove and learns that it's not good for him, he learns, and therefore that first decission to touch the stove was in his best interest. He made it!!! That's what makes you an individual, you can learn from experience, personal, physical, by reading, looking, hearing etc...If however someone just makes the decission for you, and says it is so, and you have no choice about it because THEY KNOW WHATS BEST FOR YOU, then your mind has just been raped, that person is making you a zombie, a mindless drone, taking away your freedom of free will.

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I can't remember how the quote goes, but basically is says something to the effect of 'a smart man learns from his mistakes. A smarter man learns from the mistakes of others.'

At some point in history someone burned their hand on the stove and realized that it hurt. That knowledge got passed down through the generations and we now know that if you touch a hot stove, it's going to hurt. Now if you don't believe this or think that your mind will be 'raped' if you don't listen, then by all means touch the stove and prove it to yourself. (I'm guessing afterwards you will say 'wow, what a dumb thing to do. I should have known better' rather than 'I am glad I did that. I am a better person even though my hand hurts like he||.') Sometimes making a decision for someone IS in their best interest, even if they don't know it then.

I think many laws exist for the reason of protecting the many from the actions of the few rather than protecting the few from the actions of themselves, even though some laws may go overboard.

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That's is why I said that people learn by many ways. Read my post again, and THINK about the meaning of what I am saying. The decission to learn is a personal will. You have to learn, yourself, when someone else makes a decission for you, you are therefore giving away your free will. It doesn't mean you can't hire a stock broker to manage your funds, it was your DECISSION to hire a stock broker based on your own free will, just like you can fire him at any time. If you want to take advice of a friend, it is under your own free will that you can take it and do as he says. When you have no choice about something that you do, when you are doing something just BECAUSE THEY TELL YOU TO, you have given away your mind, willfully, and became a zombie. When you do somthing just BECAUSE THEY TELL YOU TO, and have no choice about it, you are a slave. Like I said, one decission, even a wrong one, made by you, is better than ten taken on faith. That's why people who make money, and get to keep it, are the ones who research things, and hire other people to HELP them, based on their research, and knowledge about those others. Would you hire a bum off the street to manage your stock account? Would you deposit your paycheck into the first bank that is closest to your house, or because someone told you to do it? Or would you take the time to see what that bank offers you, and the history of how they manage their customers money?

By your standard, you might as well relinquish all RESPONSIBILITY for your own life, and become a slave of society, work, drink eat and sleep. You might as well let them decide what you eat, when you sleep, and what you do for a living. You can't relinquish only part of responsibility for your life, you either have FREE WILL, or you DON'T, you can't have it PARITALLY. Even if you are free to decide all but one thing, you are by defenition NOT FREE.

That's why today, you have children killing others at schools, and the game company is responsible instead of the kids and their parents. They have given up their lives the moment they were born, by giving up their own free will, by giving up their responsibility for their actions. That's why you have kids jumping from one roof of the parking building to another, fall and get hurt, and the parking buildings owner is found responsible. Those kids apparently didn't have free will of NOT JUMPING, nor their parents of TEACHING THEM, they have released that RESPONSIBILITY to the SOCIETY, SCHOOLS, and parking garage owners. That's why you sue the stores for selling R rated games to kids, even when a parent buys one for his child himself. They have released that RESPONSIBILITY. That's why you see all this non-sence, illogical, and NON-ABSOLUTES. However, in this WORLD, by it's very nature, non-sence, non-absolutes, and anything illogical DO NOT EXIST, and therefore reality of things will ALWAYS catch up with you, and you will either LEARN, or get HURT, or KILLED.

So go ahead, let others who are not qualified to run their lives, run yours. LOL, reality WILL catch up.

The man who refuses to judge, who neither agrees nor disagrees, who declares that there are no absolutes, and believes that he escapes responsibility, is the man responsible for all the blood that is now spilled in the world. Reality is an absolute, existence is an absolute, a speck of dust is an absolute and so is HUMAN LIFE. Whether you live or die is an absolute. Wheter you eat your bread or see it vanish into a looters stomach is an absolute.

There are two sides to every issue; one side is right the other is wrong, but middle is always evil. The man who is wrong still retains some respect for truth, if only by accepting the responsibility of CHOICE. But the man in the middle is the knave who blanks out the truth in order to pretend that no choice or values exist, who is willing to sit out the course of any battle, willing to cash in on the blood of the innocent or to crawl on his belly to the guilty, who dispenses justice by condemning both the robber and the robbed to jail, who solves conflicts by ordering the thinker and the fool to meet each other halfway.

So go head, let others run your life.

[ 08-05-2005, 07:46 PM: Message edited by: Soback ]

[Cruis.In]

But what are you going to do with the millions of people involved in drug trafficking when there bread and butter is gone? They could turn to worse things.

Arms dealing for one, but whatever it is, they will have to replace there lost income...

[Guest $iLk]

You are seriously worried about the income of columbian drug cartels?

Your whole argument against legalization has fallen to not wanting the poor drug dealers to be out of work?

Make up your mind.

[Soback]

His whole argument is in the same area as liberals against banning gas operated leaf blowers which account for 5% of air pollution by the way. Liberals claim they are against pollution and will run down any person driving an SUV or a Hummer, yet they are against having gardeners convert to electric blowers because overwhelming majority of gardeners are "poor hispanics" and it would place un-necessary harships to have them convert, jepordazing their livelyhood.

Makes as much sence as an argument that they make for clean power sources, but yet they want to ban the wind power generators by Livermore because the blades kill birds when they fly into them.

Or them raving how cars polute more when they are stuck in rush traffic, yet are against widening the freeways to ease the congestion.

Just like they are for personal freedom, yet deny you that freedom at every turn.

Cruis.In......I don't know if I should cry or laugh, either way....

[LostInSpace]

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Originally posted by Cruis.In:

But what are you going to do with the millions of people involved in drug trafficking when there bread and butter is gone? They could turn to worse things.

Arms dealing for one, but whatever it is, they will have to replace there lost income...

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Here's an idea: They could become legitimate business men selling their products as producers to any U.S. distributor. Duh. What's with this poor house thing.

[Soback]

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Originally posted by LostInSpace:

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Originally posted by Cruis.In:

But what are you going to do with the millions of people involved in drug trafficking when there bread and butter is gone? They could turn to worse things.

Arms dealing for one, but whatever it is, they will have to replace there lost income...

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Here's an idea: They could become legitimate business men selling their products as producers to any U.S. distributor. Duh. What's with this poor house thing.

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But that's too much to ask. You see, a person operating a business needs to make decissions, he needs to actually know how to run it. They do not believe a person is qualified to run his life, how could he run his own business? You see, you can not control an independent person, however you can make him a victim (the poor house thing), and once you label him as such, you can do anything you want to him, you can make a slave out of him, all the while claiming that it's for HIS OWN GOOD, he just doesn't know it yet.

That's why they claim the society knows better what is in indivuduals best interest, if the individual disagrees, he is no longer part of that society, then they claim he is an outcast, unprogressive, backwards thinking brute, all the while they are the brutes seeking to gain control over him.

All the beurocratic laws, the speed limit, the drug use, the smoking etc...etc..etc...it gives them control, because once you are labeled as a lawbreaker, you are such in everyones eyes, no matter what, all JUST BECAUSE THEY SAY SO.

[Cruis.In]

Just saying that a far worse problem could possibly be created through your best intentions to stop it.

[Soback]

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Originally posted by Cruis.In:

Just saying that a far worse problem could possibly be created through your best intentions to stop it.

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Yet by doing nothing, doesn't solve the problem.

That's what the Europe was debating, to stop the Germans, might cost a lot of lives, not to stop them, they might just expand a little and stop the war. You know where that got them right. When a problem exists, you work on it, you don't sit idly waiting, that never solves anything, as a matter of fact that only creates problems.

[Cruis.In]

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You are seriously worried about the income of columbian drug cartels?

Your whole argument against legalization has fallen to not wanting the poor drug dealers to be out of work?

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ya'll are spin doctors, just spin everything I say. Do I really have to respond to that?

My comment on the drug dealers is mainly to say that you have this grand solution to the drug problem but did you stop to think of other problems that might arise afterwards?

In life you should always think about the consequences of doing something, simple one like, if I cross the street when cars are coming, I'm likely to get hit, but if I cross the street when no cars are coming I will make it to the other side.

So nobody just cannot UP and legalise drugs or do some similarly as serious without first seeing what an impact it will have on everything.

Yes when a problem exists you work on it, you don't make rash descisions.

[Guest $iLk]

Prohibition doesn't work. Legalization will save $$$Billions$$$ per year, plus create a source of income to handle the drug problem. I think those two benefits alone outweigh the costs - considering that these drug dealers can't just find another illegal source easily to earn income. If you are sitting in a country that has a primary crop of drugs - you aren't going to be looking at anything else as a source of power or income.

Drug dealers in the United States might actually have to go to college or start a legitimate business. Or will get weeded out committing other crimes.

Short-term problem.

[Cruis.In]

You are very naive indeed if you think that it would be a short term problem, drug dealer go to college? Oh sure an average crack head once in a while picks himself up and then lectures to colleges about life on the street.

Really really really. I believe more anarchy would ensue when all those drug trafficking organizations turn to other crimes. It would be like reinforcing the army of robbers with millions of new robbers.

I just can't explain it to you if you can't grasp it, but short term problem it is not.

[Guest]

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Originally posted by Cruis.In:

You are very naive indeed if you think that it would be a short term problem, drug dealer go to college? Oh sure an average crack head once in a while picks himself up and then lectures to colleges about life on the street.

Really really really. I believe more anarchy would ensue when all those drug trafficking organizations turn to other crimes. It would be like reinforcing the army of robbers with millions of new robbers.

I just can't explain it to you if you can't grasp it, but short term problem it is not.

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Ever heard of prohibition Cruis?

It didn't work, and create crime that was rampant throughout the United States, just as the drug war does now.

Without the Drug war, and decriminalizing drugs, we do just what prohibition did, get rid of the crime related to those drugs. And there are millions of drug related crimes every YEAR.

[John Prezioso]

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Without the Drug war, and decriminalizing drugs, we do just what prohibition did, get rid of the crime related to those drugs. And there are millions of drug related crimes every YEAR.

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As much as I'd rather the heavily addicting drugs to stay illegal, it's hard to argue with you there, Jag.

[Cruis.In]

Drugs are just so huge and so incomprehensibly so, that I'm afraid you are really not grasping it's significance. I mean that from a lack of experience and not knowledge... I am a narcotics officer, or narc as you probably call them... anyway, and I don't know everything, but it is very scary.

So much people involved in trafficking, I just can't fuss my head to name them. I mean, your neighbors, baggage handlers, bus drivers, school teachers, police officers, politicians

agg it's just all corrupt.

[John Prezioso]

Okay, so assuming you recognize drugs as a problem, how do you fix said problem?

[Soback]

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Originally posted by Cruis.In:

Drugs are just so huge and so incomprehensibly so, that I'm afraid you are really not grasping it's significance. I mean that from a lack of experience and not knowledge... I am a narcotics officer, or narc as you probably call them... anyway, and I don't know everything, but it is very scary.

So much people involved in trafficking, I just can't fuss my head to name them. I mean, your neighbors, baggage handlers, bus drivers, school teachers, police officers, politicians

agg it's just all corrupt.

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Oh man, that's preciselly IT. They are involved in drug trafficing. Making money under the table, BIG money, illegaly and some willing to kill for it too. You legalize it, what happens? Are they going to traffic drugs then? Are they going to sell it on the corners for hundreds of dollars? They try that and the consumer would laugh at their face, go to the store and buy a packet like he would by a cigarete pack. Is anyone going to be shooting someone over drugs then? Do you see people shooting each other over cigaretes? Do you see politicians being bribed by cigarettes? Do you see bus drivers selling cigarettes to passengers? Do you see corrupt police officers confiscating cigarettes to re-sell them back on the streets for their own profits? The answer to all these is NO. The benefits are, personal freedom, taxes for your beloved politicians to support your society, decline in crime such as drug involved shootings, stabbings, murders, a major decrease in drug trafficing (now there would be a legal way to get them into the country, and yet another source of revenue), more jobs created as employees would be needed to run the stores selling drugs, the factories to roll those marijuana joints, the boxes to package them, the drivers to deliver them. What IS THE DOWNSIDE? Please, list me the downsides, I want to know, because so fart I haven't heard any good excuses against legalization, driving under the influence is the major excuse, and if that's it, then make alcohol and cough medicine illegal too.

However, I could see your point, as a Narc, you would be out of a job.

[Grizzle]

...nevermind

[Guest $iLk]

He's looking at it from a brainwashed policeman's point of view. I worked for a Sheriff's Department and I am well aware of the stupidity of people like those who try to cook meth after it rains and have it blow up on them.

I'm aware of corruption. And if you legalized it - you wouldn't have the corruption because there could be no profit made from it.

If I went out and sold drugs today I could make 1000% profit. If drugs were legal I could make maybe a 4% profit.

Don't let simple economics get into the way of your NARC brainwashing training.

[Cruis.In]

I was never brain washed. I quite believe in legalasing, it might confuse you to hear me say so, when all this time you think I am against it.

But if you read my first post, I am worried about the main reason behind legalising it, because you couldn't stop it, it's just sets a bad precedent to me. I made a promise to a friend dead now, that I wouldn't let policing change me, and I'm proud to say it hasn't. I've actually wanted to leave the department because I don't believe in the fight.

Anyway as for brainwashing, applies to everyone, like my other thread, A.A , the soldiers are brainwashed too you know

*look around for Jag*

(raising shields)

[Soback]

http://www.illwillpress.com/drugs.html Parental Advisory, Explicit content!!!

[John Prezioso]

Is that thing's name "Foamy"? If it is, then Foamy is my hero!!!!