Arizona Ranch siezed and given to illegal aliens

[Guest $iLk]

2 Illegal Immigrants Win Arizona Ranch in Court

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The surrender of the ranch comes as the governors of Arizona and New Mexico have declared a state of emergency because of the influx of illegal immigrants and related crime along the border.

Bill Dore, a Douglas resident briefly affiliated with Ranch Rescue who is still active in the border-patrolling Minuteman Project, called the land transfer "ridiculous."

"The illegals are coming over here," Mr. Dore said. "They are getting the American property. Hell, I'd come over, too. Get some American property, make some money from the gringos."

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I'm sure we've got politicians in Washington who give a damn.

[Kevin Trotter]

This is bad. If we have a border policy why are locals forced to enforce it? If we cant (or wont) enforce the policy why are we wasting time and resources for window dressing? Isnt this a Homeland Security issue? I'm normally in favor of yahoos like the Ranch Rescue getting it up the a##, but somehow in this case it doesnt FEEL appropriate. It seems pretty clear that both were illegal and it also seems clear that the INS dropped the ball, but it doesnt SEEM right that this outcome fits the situation that led to those two folks being"harrassed" Thetwo americans basically were arrested for doing what my tax dollars pay the INS and Border patrol to do.Perhaps we should look at contracting private indivduals who have the proper training and supervision (kinda like bounty hunters) to do some of this work. Man this does not FEEL right.

[Guest $iLk]

I read the other day that nearly 10,000 of the Illegals who came over the border this year and were caught by the Border Patrol had criminal records.

They aren't all down-on-their-luck farmers looking to make a living for their family. A sizeable percentage are leeches and criminals. We need to sort out the good from the bad.

I'm all in favor of pulling the good from Mexico. I have no desire to allow the bad in also.

[Darkling]

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Originally posted by Race Bannon IV:

This is bad. If we have a border policy why are locals forced to enforce it?

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They're not. They could have easily simply called the police and let them take care of it instead of trying to take matters into their own hands.

In addition, let's face the facts. Unless one of those boys are Indian, which by their names I would say that they're not, then either they or their parents immigrated here from another country, so basically what they're saying is let's get in and then slam the door shut on everyone else, I don't know about you but that's pretty hipocrytical to me.

I know that many of you would say but they're illegals, but the truth is that they're illegals only becuase we made it illegal. There was a time in the US when everyone was welcome except the criminals, so back then truly only the Illegals were criminals. These days if someone wants or NEEDS to come here, then they're automatically illegal.

[Grizzle]

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Originally posted by Race Bannon IV:

This is bad. If we have a border policy why are locals forced to enforce it?

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Sadly because there is no money to be made. If policing our borders was a profit venture politicians and big business would be all over it like white on rice.

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If we cant (or wont) enforce the policy why are we wasting time and resources for window dressing?

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So the Washington bureaucrats can say they've done *something*

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Isnt this a Homeland Security issue?

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Yes, but we're too busy policing Iraq to worry about our own security. Once again, there's no money in it.

[Guest $iLk]

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They're not. They could have easily simply called the police and let them take care of it instead of trying to take matters into their own hands.

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1.) Many people who call the border patrol or police are usually brushed off because the border patrol doesn't like to deal with it.

2.) An American citizen should have the right to defend his country. So long as they aren't shooting to kill along the border - I don't see a problem. Especially since all they did was detain for an hour while giving the illegals food and water - that doesn't justify siezing their property.

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In addition, let's face the facts. Unless one of those boys are Indian, which by their names I would say that they're not, then either they or their parents immigrated here from another country, so basically what they're saying is let's get in and then slam the door shut on everyone else, I don't know about you but that's pretty hipocrytical to me.

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Let's face the facts. Illegal immigrants are costing 27 Billion dollars per year in un-reimbursed costs to hospitals in border states.

The lifetime fiscal burden (according to the U.S. Government) on the public for an average illegal male is $55,000+.

Half of un-insured workers in the United States are illegal immigrants according to the APHA.

And everyone in the United States is an immigrant. That also means that for the most part our ancestors followed the laws in place to emigrate here.

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I know that many of you would say but they're illegals, but the truth is that they're illegals only becuase we made it illegal. There was a time in the US when everyone was welcome except the criminals, so back then truly only the Illegals were criminals. These days if someone wants or NEEDS to come here, then they're automatically illegal.

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1.) You are correct that they become illegal aliens when they break our immigration laws.

2.) How can you tell who the criminals are if all of them are hopping the border?

3.) Incorrect - they can follow immigration laws and if they check out to be a good person with a clean record and a good work ethic - bring em on.

[Darkling]

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Originally posted by $iLk:

3.) Incorrect - they can follow immigration laws and if they check out to be a good person with a clean record and a good work ethic - bring em on.

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Actually, the US has made it so dificult to come here, that what you're talking about is almost impossible from certain countries. As an example, my Wife is Columbian and some of her Uncles have been trying to get a visa to come here for over 10 years and is turned down every time. The man isn't a criminal, he's a hard working person that wants to join the rest of his family here, but the US government has made it almost impossible for him to come here.

Also, as for all that talk about how Imigrants 'Cost' the US Billions, that's all a bunch of BS. Why do you think that we don't have stagnating economies like many European countries and Japan who have around the same birthrate as we have here in the US? It's because of Immigration, these people provide a fresh pool of workers to do the things that we don't want to do, like collect trash and pick tomatoes, in addition many of them come here and start their own businesses and provide employment to millions of citizens. Go to NY and see how many shops were opened up by Imigrants, the same in Miami and "Little Havana" in Miami, the same in Los Angeles and numerous other cities where Imigrants tend to congregate.

The truth is that the US keeps current laws the way they are to placate Ignorants like yourself, but they don't actively enforce them because the US knows where the money comes from. Hell Imigrants like myself and my brother probably each pay more in taxes per year than what most poeple EARN in a year. It's like any other issue, you want the truth, just follow the money.

[LostInSpace]

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Originally posted by Darkling:

Hell Imigrants like myself and my brother probably each pay more in taxes per year than what most poeple EARN in a year.

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Did you come here legally or illegally?

[John Prezioso]

Darkling:

I feel your pain about the rest of your family in Columbia, but I still stand by the statement that immigrants migrating here must follow the proper legal avenues. If you don't even show respect for the laws of the country your moving to, how can you expect to be a good citizen? I want hard working people like your dad to come over, but I want them to do it legally.

Frankly, I think it would be easier for those with the desire to do it legally if all of the people with NO regard for our immigration laws were barred from entering. As it is, it's just utter chaos.

[Guest $iLk]

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The truth is that the US keeps current laws the way they are to placate Ignorants like yourself

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Or it could be because an open border policy is suicidal for a nation, especially when facing enemies in Latin America & terrorists - and the only ignorant people are those who don't recognize this.

[Darkling]

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Originally posted by LostInSpace:

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Originally posted by Darkling:

Hell Imigrants like myself and my brother probably each pay more in taxes per year than what most poeple EARN in a year.

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Did you come here legally or illegally?

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My Mother came here Legally, but my Father came here Illegally and was later naturalized. I was born in the Dominican Republic, but that was a fluke, my mohter was visiting her sick father and I was born 3 months early. After 4 months my mother brought me back to our house in NY and I've been here ever since (I'm now 38).

My Wife's Parents both came here Illegally, but were later naturalized. They NEVER used any sort of welfare program or anything like that and through hard work and dedication, they now own several Million dollars worth of Real Estate in NY.

[Darkling]

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Originally posted by $iLk:

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The truth is that the US keeps current laws the way they are to placate Ignorants like yourself

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Or it could be because an open border policy is suicidal for a nation, especially when facing enemies in Latin America & terrorists - and the only ignorant people are those who don't recognize this.

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The US didn't have an "Open Border" policy, they scrutinized EVERY person coming in, so if someone was a criminal they would be sent back to where they came from. The current policy of severely limiting Immigration has made it easy for criminals to mingle with Hard working poeple that are just looking to come here and WORK for a living. It is this policy that has made it EASIER for criminals and terrorist to get into the US.

As for your comment on respecting laws and the like, I have a family friend who is here illegally, he fled Columbia to get away from the Narco-Terrorist who were out to kill him, what did he do wrong? He dared to serve as Mayor under the current Administration. They basically told him that his town had to pay them for protection and he refused, as soon as his term was over his Government assigned body guards were reassigned to the new Mayor and basically he was on his own. He figured that he would go out to Bogota, where it's safer, but they found him there and tried to kill him. He appealed to the US to let him come here to get away from these Murderers, but after 6 months of living on the run and getting shot in the arm, he finally said screw it and came here illegally. He now works in a restaurant waiting tables, since there is nothing else he can do with his "Illegal" status. This is a man who is a former Mayor, has a Law degree and a Masters of Business Administration. Reduced to waiting on Tables? Yeah, the US is totally fair in their Immigration Policy.

[Guest $iLk]

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The US didn't have an "Open Border" policy, they scrutinized EVERY person coming in, so if someone was a criminal they would be sent back to where they came from. The current policy of severely limiting Immigration has made it easy for criminals to mingle with Hard working poeple that are just looking to come here and WORK for a living. It is this policy that has made it EASIER for criminals and terrorist to get into the US.

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I'm going to agree with you to a point here. I believe that strong immigration laws - but fair immigration laws mixed with a strong sealed border would be in the interests of this country and those who would contribute to this country.

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As for your comment on respecting laws and the like, I have a family friend who is here illegally, he fled Columbia to get away from the Narco-Terrorist who were out to kill him, what did he do wrong? He dared to serve as Mayor under the current Administration. They basically told him that his town had to pay them for protection and he refused, as soon as his term was over his Government assigned body guards were reassigned to the new Mayor and basically he was on his own. He figured that he would go out to Bogota, where it's safer, but they found him there and tried to kill him. He appealed to the US to let him come here to get away from these Murderers, but after 6 months of living on the run and getting shot in the arm, he finally said screw it and came here illegally. He now works in a restaurant waiting tables, since there is nothing else he can do with his "Illegal" status. This is a man who is a former Mayor, has a Law degree and a Masters of Business Administration. Reduced to waiting on Tables? Yeah, the US is totally fair in their Immigration Policy.

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Congratulations to your friend. I'd be the first to step up and sponsor him if I could. But he has no right to be here.

From the sounds of his qualifications - the person who turned down his immigration papers has some explaining to do.

[Guest]

Darkling

I AM from Colombia. Born and Raised there. Moved here when I was 19. Was raised during the narco war when the medellin cartel was bombing the fug out of the country and they WERE the government in more than half the nation.

Your wife's uncles visa issues im almost sure are due to background checks. It only takes the fact that you either were in the same school/job/neighborhood as drug lords&underlings or just happen to be unlucky enough to have their same last name to have the US gov spend decades ignoring your visa requests.

Believe me, the checks the FBI does are insane. My dad's application was almost rejected just because he had the same first and last name of some completely insignificant and unknown little drug lord that lived in the same city we lived in (heck we hadnt even heard of the guy and believe me over there you KNOW their names). If the military police had not caught and killed the guy a few months before we applied for the visa i know he wouldve been denied it. And this was before sept 11 mind you.

As far as your friend the mayor goes: Hats off to him and the balls he had to be a mayor or even work for the mayor.

However, that does not excuse him for engaging in criminal activities. Illegal entry into the US is a criminal act. Sound harsh even to my own countryman but the reality is: The USA is not the only country that he couldve gone to.

My family had Canada and France and Holland and Sweden as backups and we were ready to put our applications in if the US ones did not go through for all of us. While we were not 'marked' as your friend was we were definetely 'on the list' as my family owned and ran an industrial chemical distribution company which ferried lots of stuff that could be used in the drug processing. heck some of the shipments were even intercepted and stolen along the way by you know who. When the gov. began their military crackdown (amazing thing really.. we couldnt believe the gov was going after them effectively for a change) that them drug lords began to search for alternatives.. and after a big guerilla attack just blocks away from our house my dad decided to just pick up and leave inmediately.

And here we are now. Legally and happy. Wouldve been the same in Canada or Holland or any other country.

For what its worth, I wish your friend and your wife's uncles luck.