France Unrest

[Aperson]

quote:

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Originally posted by Soback

Because we have people that just plain out think it's "boring", and fail to learn it's lessons. It really is that simple.

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Unfortunatly, the way history is often taught IS boring.

quote:

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Originally posted by Soback

How long do you think you will survive with those whos views are similar to yours, Grizzle, Nomad, Aperson.

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Well if riots are anything like they were in the past (in Canada) a pretty long time. As I A: can't remember the last riot and B: the last one I heard of where people died (2) was in the 1800's.

[Guest]

quote:

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Originally posted by Aperson:

quote:

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Originally posted by Soback

Because we have people that just plain out think it's "boring", and fail to learn it's lessons. It really is that simple.

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Unfortunatly, the way history is often taught IS boring.

quote:

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Originally posted by Soback

How long do you think you will survive with those whos views are similar to yours, Grizzle, Nomad, Aperson.

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Well if riots are anything like they were in the past (in Canada) a pretty long time. As I A: can't remember the last riot and B: the last one I heard of where people died (2) was in the 1800's.

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Well, Asperson, stand by, because you ae going to get a ringside seat...

Have fun!!!

[Soback]

LOL, I'm sorry Aperson. You are the only one I have sympathy for here. Reason being, you grew up under socialism, and were never taught anything else. However, my sympathy only goes so far, because as an idividual, you have a brain and instincts, and should've been striving to learn on your own. Your comment of "Unfortunatly, the way history is often taught IS boring." just re-inforces the theory that an individual really is responsible for his own education, his own progress, his own achievements, and his own life. Because if you are not interested in history, then not even a clown with monkeys on his shoulders would be able to cram it down your head.

This proves that personal ignorance is a choice, not a condition. Just like being poor, being un-skilled, being un-educated, ect...

And I don't see how it's my responsibility to pick up, support, and help out those who have failed of their own accord. I have nothing to gain from them, only to lose, as does the rest of the society, that's if you are going to make a liberal argument that taking care of others is for societies good. LOL.

Seriously Aperson, read Atlas Shrugged, it's the best thing you can do for yourself.

[Aperson]

Jaguar:

Whiping Canadians to a wild frenzy is, um, kinda hard. Unless hockey or canadian beer is involved.

Soback:

Some people find history boring, others do not. Just like some people find Math or Science boring while others do not. Also, some people are very good at historiacal studies, while others are (you guessed it) not. That's just the way it is.

Added to that there are other reasons not to study history. Such as you know, career choices, other interests etc. But hey, I guess to be an indivudual you have to study history.

Plus you seem to miss the fact that interest (or lack there of) DOES NOT mean that you are unable to learn something, it just means that you'll be less likely to seek out more information about a subject.

Finally, clowns wouldn't make history more interesting, they're scary.

[Guest]

quote:

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Originally posted by Aperson:

Jaguar:

Whiping Canadians to a wild frenzy is, um, kinda hard. Unless hockey or canadian beer is involved.

Soback:

Some people find history boring, others do not. Just like some people find Math or Science boring while others do not. Also, some people are very good at historiacal studies, while others are (you guessed it) not. That's just the way it is.

Added to that there are other reasons not to study history. Such as you know, career choices, other interests etc. But hey, I guess to be an indivudual you have to study history.

Plus you seem to miss the fact that interest (or lack there of) DOES NOT mean that you are unable to learn something, it just means that you'll be less likely to seek out more information about a subject.

Finally, clowns wouldn't make history more interesting, they're scary.

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I am NOT talking about Canadians, I am talking about all the Muslims that have been allowed in, and have not integrated into the Canadian society.

Canada is a lot like France in that respect, and when it explodes? You're screwed.....

If they attempt such nonsense here in the states, the citizens will take control of the situation, because we won't put up with such nonsense in our neighborhoods.

If they tried that here, they would be feeling bullets, not throwing molotov cocktails.

[Grizzle]

Once again Soback your infinite wisdom fails you, what do you know of the survivability of anyone on this board?

In recent history France has had two other riots sparked by poverty and discrimination and we're all still here. How so? This can't be! It's totally inconsistent with what Soback says!

Why don't you guys just cut and run NOW, what's stopping you, what are you waiting for? Surely if all your studied lessons of history have shown you the outcome of these riots then your conclusion should be to go now, while the going is still good. Just send us a postcard from where ever you two end up so we know you're still OK.

We'll all sure miss your posts around here, but you better hurry, time's a wastin!

[Guest]

quote:

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Originally posted by Grizzle:

Once again Soback your infinite wisdom fails you, what do you know of the survivability of anyone on this board?

In recent history France has had two other riots sparked by poverty and discrimination and we're all still here. How so? This can't be! It's totally inconsistent with what Soback says!

Why don't you guys just cut and run NOW, what's stopping you, what are you waiting for? Surely if all your studied lessons of history have shown you the outcome of these riots then your conclusion should be to go now, while the going is still good. Just send us a postcard from where ever you two end up so we know you're still OK.

We'll all sure miss your posts around here, but you better hurry, time's a wastin!

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I am where I need to be Grizzle, because the people around me are of the same political stripe that I am, and there is indeed strength in numbers.

Poor Grizzle, he still doesn't understand....

[Aperson]

So far the muslims that have "not intergrated" have pretty much been told: "Keep your beliefs but follow our rules" as was seen when the Ontario Goverment refused Shari(sp) rule for muslims. So long as that happens everything should be fine and hopefully no violence will break out (and if it does, quickly contained).

[Grizzle]

quote:

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Originally posted by Jaguar:

Poor Grizzle, he still doesn't understand....

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I don't understand you and Soback, that's for sure. What I do understand is that you two are making a mountain out of a mole hill. As I said before, in a few weeks when this all blows over, I'll be interested to see your rationale for how this situation failed to metastasize into a global threat.

Of course if all this time you've been speaking of eventualities, then let me beat you to the punch and state that today marks the beginning of the end of the world.

[Guest]

quote:

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Originally posted by Grizzle:

quote:

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Originally posted by Jaguar:

Poor Grizzle, he still doesn't understand....

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I don't understand you and Soback, that's for sure. What I do understand is that you two are making a mountain out of a mole hill. As I said before, in a few weeks when this all blows over, I'll be interested to see your rationale for how this situation failed to metastasize into a global threat.

Of course if all this time you've been speaking of eventualities, then let me beat you to the punch and state that today marks the beginning of the end of the world.

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You have NO idea how close to the truth you are, because when the threat from Islam is FINALLY handled, they will choose to destroy us all, then to not have power.

Islams goal is NOTHING less then world domination, and if you doubt it, then you haven't been paying attention.

[Grizzle]

I do not doubt that Islamic fundamentalists and extremists want world domination. But they are a small minority of the Islamic faith. Just like Christian fundamentalists are in the minority.

I wouldn't dare generalize all Christians as bible thumping, prudish, abortion clinic bombers who lock their children away in the basement to punish them or protect them from the evils of society because it's simply not true. And so it is with Islam.

Now if you are arguing that ALL Muslims are bent on world domination then I simply don't see it that way. Yeah I know, it's in the Q'uran, but the vast majority of Muslims do not follow Islams teachings to the tee, only the extremists do.

So do the Islamic extremists have potential to cause harm to the world? Yes. Could they possibly ever succeed in taking it over? Nope, they simply don't have the numbers. Unless of course they execute Executive Order 66...(dun dun dunnnnn [que ominous music])

[Guest]

Well Grizzle, 19 fundies did a lot of damage on 911, or did you forget about that?

Fundies are in charge of Iran, and guess what? They have nukes, or will very shortly, there have been numerous terrorist attacks thwarted that would have killed THOUSANDS of people, and terrified the moderate muslims to such a point where they might actually join them if it seems they might win.

This is not a simple thing Grizzle, and these fundies are DANGEROUS, and are out to KILL you, and me, and ANYONE that is NOT a Fundamentalist Muslim, and that INCLUDES OTHER muslims.

They want nothing more then world domination, and a few of these nuts with nukes can and will do a lot of damage.

The riots in France may be "kids", but they aren't really, they are TERRORISING the french citizens in order to get what they want.

Complete autonomy for their own areas, with NO French police, laws, or anything else, if they get it, then Europe is screwed, and it can, and will explode into something no one will be able to control.

[Guest]

quote:

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Originally posted by nomad:

Tonight, 200 youths fired on anti-riot police with hunting guns, hurting 34 police officers, two of them badly.

In parallel, the emigrant community has begun to condemn these acts, stating that they are absurd and can only damage emigrant's interests. The french community, all political tendencies alike, are know begging the government to take firm actions, whatever may be the cost.

I suspect we have reached the level of bi-partisan popular support the government was waiting before cracking down on the mobs. Again, I have no crystal ball, but having lived in France many years and knowing their mentality, I think that we will see a much more aggressive law enforcement stance in the next days.

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Chirac was waiting so that he could destroy his political rival, which he may indeed have done.

They should have taken this thing to that level a week ago. As his rival said, they are scum, and need to be dealt with in that fashion.

2 to the chest, one to the head, end of riots...

[LostInSpace]

I just saw a report on ABC stating that Chirac was kind of stuck between doing what he wanted to do and that is use all the force available and the Liberals who just wanted to throw money at them to quell the situation. These are pretty much the words that was stated on ABC.

[Soback]

This is what happens when you take away guns from the population. Or when you have liberal population that is allergic to guns. They can't even defend themselfs. Instead, it has been almost a week, and the riots just continue, destroying everything in sight. Waiting for the government to take care of things, as always. This is just yet ANOTHER proof, government is never the answer, and they NEVER protect the citizens, just like the police, they are there AFTER the crime, to take down the report, that is if there's any of the victims are alive to give one.

[LostInSpace]

So far:

PARIS, France (CNN) -- Rioters fired at police and burned schools and churches in an 11th night of violence in France, despite words from the president that restoring order was a top priority.

*4,300 vehicles have been burned

*Ten riot police were injured

*A school was torched.

*A church was set ablaze

*Rocks thrown at two buses hit a 13-month-old child in Colombe, an official with the Interior Ministry said. The child was in serious condition.

*Two schools in the southeastern town of Saint-Etienne

*A police station

*A social center

*CNN correspondents have said renegade youths have turned neighborhoods into no-go zones, even in the daytime.

There is also this:

PARIS, France (Reuters) -- One of France's largest Islamic groups has issued a fatwa against rioting after officials suggested Muslim militants could be partly to blame for violent protests scarring poor neighborhoods around the country.

[John Prezioso]

Off-topic, I know, but legal gun ownership is almost universally equated with lower crime, Nomad. And countries with total gun bans (like Japan) absolutely do not have lower crime rates.

There are TONS of reports that prove both of these points. It would take me an hour just to post all of the ones I know of.

[John Prezioso]

Your numbers are not applicable to this discussion, since in the U.S. gun grabbers have managed to remove peoples' legal right to keep and bear arms in the majority of U.S. cities where the crime rate is the highest. It also ignores the fact that youth violent crime in general in Japan is up 300% in the last 20 years. Only a city by city analysis of the U.S. can tell the true story. In my view it is not even a discussion, since the numbers overwhelming support the idea that legal gun ownership is directly proportional to lower crime.

This is my last post on this, since it is way off topic and I don't want to get in trouble, but the record needs to be set straight.

[Aperson]

Other factors probably determine crime rate more than whether guns are legal or not.

[Grizzle]

quote:

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Originally posted by Aperson:

Other factors probably determine crime rate more than whether guns are legal or not.

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Wot?! This is Amurica, where guns not only lower crime, but also help prevent tooth decay.

Seriously, how can this statistic be proven? If guns prevent crimes from occuring then how can you count the crimes aborted because someone owned a gun? Is this based on some sort of prison poll?

How many times did you crap your pants when your victim pulled out a gun?:

A: None

B: 1 or 2

C: 3 or more

D: Only after you've eaten a Burrito

Oops, we should probably start a new thread for this topic.

[John Prezioso]

Needless to say that is true; gun ownership is only one variable in the equation. of course, the information is all there for your perusal. Across the board, in cities with higher private ownership, violent crime is lower. You can draw any conclusions you want from that, but I know what I get out of it.

But getting back to the original topic- Soback's point still stands. If private gun ownership were more prevalent throughout France, the riots would have most likely been stopped the first or second evening. And that poor woman might not have been set on fire. And that unfortunate man might not have been beaten to death. Etc, etc, etc.

I laugh to think what would happen down here in my neck of the woods if a riot were to break out. Gun ownership in my part of Memphis is extremely high. I don't think rioters would get very far before my community banded together and started putting them down like rabid dogs.

[Aperson]

Maybe, there is of course the chance that the rioters might decide to use firearms after they've been shot at.

[John Prezioso]

Of course. My money, though, is on the rioters moving to an area where the chance of getting their lawless butts shot off is lower. In other words, a city with gun-grabbing Democrats in charge.

[Guest]

quote:

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Originally posted by Aperson:

Maybe, there is of course the chance that the rioters might decide to use firearms after they've been shot at.

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Let them, rioters are normally those that are poor, uneducated, and liberal, they have NO idea how to use a gun.

I Would rather be the target of an untrained gun toter then a trained one.

MOST trained gun owners are law abiding citizens who will not riot to just destroy property to make a point, they will go after those who have created the problem.

Let then grab guns, then they are REAL 110% pure LEGAL targets....

[Aperson]

quote:

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Originally posted by Jaguar:

quote:

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Originally posted by Aperson:

Maybe, there is of course the chance that the rioters might decide to use firearms after they've been shot at.

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Let them, rioters are normally those that are poor, uneducated, and liberal, they have NO idea how to use a gun.

I Would rather be the target of an untrained gun toter then a trained one.

MOST trained gun owners are law abiding citizens who will not riot to just destroy property to make a point, they will go after those who have created the problem.

Let then grab guns, then they are REAL 110% pure LEGAL targets....

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So would that make them not legal targets beforehand?

Hopefully if a riot does end up happening near you then turns into firefight that your right.