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Civil War in Iraq? Where is it?

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It is as dangerous as lead.

Leaching into Water supplies from a surface impact would make a negligible impact on water supplies, it would be a just another parts per million pollutant, such as lead.

It would not cause any problem health effects in the long term because of the small amount, just as lead is in any water supply in small amounts.

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Guest $iLk

Jag is correct. The radiation from depleted uranium cannot penetrate a sheet of paper. The danger comes if it is taken internally - which as he has pointed out, in most cases will not happen in any signifigant amount.

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O well, I guess that the DU was bad example of dangerous modern weaponry. I still think that it may cause surprising health and ecological effects. Nevertheless, it was just one examble, while fact remains that modern warfare is way more lethal, both to people and enviroment.

-v

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As Einstein once said, WWIII will be fought with I don't know what, but WWIV will be fought with sticks and stones.

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I see very little has changed in this neighborhood. I guess you should never let a little thing like the truth ruin a good argument.

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Really, well then, what's the truth as you see it Race?

I have talked to people on the ground, I am in contact with soldiers that are THERE, outside the Green zone.

Please, tell me what your sources on the ground in Iraq are telling you.

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Guest $iLk

My best friend was there from 2004 - 2005 in Force Recon. He said the majority of the people they were fighting near the Syrian border were Iraqis - not Syrians or Iranians.

He says this is because their local economies have gone to crap because we cut off trade with Syria - and they are getting fired up by a bunch of radical clerics.

In his opinion, 90% of the Insurgency is home-grown.

That is not to say that Iran and Syria are not involved somehow in getting them weapons. But it is Iraqis who are doing the fighting - on both sides.

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quote:

Originally posted by Jaguar:

As Einstein once said, WWIII will be fought with I don't know what, but WWIV will be fought with sticks and stones.

Einstein also once said that "the universe and human stupidity were infinite, but that he was not sure about the former."

All I'm saying it's great to have opinions and that everyone's an expert. The problem is that even the people on the front lines don't see the big picture, so how can we see it from here who are fed second or third hand information by biased media and government?

All we know is that people are dying on both sides and for what? I certainly hope it's all worth it. I'd like to believe that the Iraqi people and the rest of the world are better off now that Saddam's no longer a threat, but I'm not really sure about it. Who can we believe if both sides lie? Nobody's telling the truth, the innocents because they don't want to get involved, the guilty because they have no choice.

I hardly watch the "news" anymore.

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I would like to think that even if every soldier over there doesn't see the big picture they have a very clear view of the little picture in their area. If we take those little pictures from all over Iraq we can put together a pretty accurate big picture of whats happening.

From what I've been able to gather, the problem is bagdad and the anbar province the rest of Iraq is pretty quiet.

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Kind of reminds me about when I first moved to Miami, and all my friends where like, OMG!! You're moving to the Murder Capitol of the World!.... Well I didn't believe the hype, because I know these guys are just trying to sell a story, I did however, find out why they got this reputation. There's a small patch of a city called Liberty City that encompasses about 20 square blocks or so, just outside of Downtown Miami. This small area was in the middle of a Drug war and the VAST majority of the people who were getting killed were rival drug dealers. To hear it from the news in Rhode Island, where I lived at the time, you would think the entire city was up in flames, with shootouts at 'High Noon' on a daily basis. No, a VERY small group of people living in a poverty stricken VERY small tract of land, had taken up the press' time and imagination and that's all they talked about for years. It got to the point that ANYONE who died in this area, be it from a gunfight, heart attack or car accident, became the speculation of bloody gang warfare. Anyone who bothered to look into the truth, found that it was all just a load of hype. While there definitely was a problem with the area, people die on a daily basis for a variety of reasons that had NOTHING to do with the fighting, and to top it off, Miami, is a VERY big place with so much going for it, but of course, these guys just wanted a Negative, Headliner, so they got the story that they were looking for.

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Jag,

My source on the ground is a kid who lives down the street from me named Richie. He is 26 years old. He joined the Marines to pay for school and to serve his country " Like my pops did" he said. When my wife and I moved here 15 years ago, Richie was one of a few kids with any hustle in him, and hired himself out to cut grass shovel snow, you know that kind of thing. He was the kind of kid you could pay before the job was done knowing he would always finish his work.

Richie graduated HS and worked a couple going nowhere type jobs before he decided to become a Jarhead. The last time he cut my grass six years ago he teased me, saying he'd write me from Lejune and let me know what is really like to be in the service, since I was in the Air Force and didnt really know. For the next few years I'd see him off and on when he was on leave, picking his little brother up from my neighbors across the street. He'd stop by and we'd tease each other, I'd remind him that in '82 the Corps had thier Police train under USAF personnel cause at the time they didnt have a police academy, and he'd say would that have been 1882 or 1982? It was our little joke and we repeated it often. Then he got deployed

His Unit was outside Fallujah and responsible for training Iraqui police. He did two tours with scarcely 7 months in between. He came home last week, and while I was taking a nap, the doorbell woke me. I opened the door to find Richie beaming like always, and a prostethtic arm from the right elbow down. Still wearing that goofy assed grin for the next two hours we drank Guiness and talked. About his girlfriend, his brother, his unit but not about the arm. He didnt complain or agree with my opinion for our reasons for war. He said and I quote" All that shit is for politicians and people sitting home to figure out. I just wanted to do my duty without shaming myself and family and come back home" The one thing he did say was for the most part the whole deal over there was a "world class cluster**** " and half the time you didnt know if the Iraqui they were training were police or insurgents. " Shit, sometimes they was both" he said

Richie is not dumb, not by a longshot, he was a Marine with a job and absolutely no political axe to grind.

Jag I love you like a brother but your sources "on the ground" (as if you were in the Intelligence community) are soldiers too with a job to do and probably no better qualified than Richie to give an accurate picture on what is going on over there outside thier own little patch of the world. And if they are privy to details the rest of us are not privy to they should probably keep theose details to themselves.

The truth is relative. People filter thier truths through the lens of thier worldview. Vets who come home and have an axe to grind with Bush and Co., probably had one before they were deployed.

Semantics. Civil war/Insurgency? what is the difference? Comparing it to Liberty City is stupid. To my knowledge they were not car bombing 60 or 70 people at a time in Miami. No one in that country is safe for long and cannot say they are with a clear conscience.

I was staioned in outside Athens Greece in 1984. My second day on base (Helinikon AB) a Navy Captain assigned to the US Embassy was shot and killed outside our base. Two KKE members on a scooter rode alongside his staff car and opened fire. It was the first of a rash of such shootings, that went on for six months or so. Everytime we went off base and heard that sound we literally dove for cover. 22 years later I still get nervous when someone passes me on a scooter. That is why I scoff at the notion that Iraq is a garden spot with a few rough areas and life is just breezing by. I hope you all will excuse my histrionics, but I wonder how many more Richie's will be popping up on doorsteps in this country and for how much longer?

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