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Games with steep learning curves


Gol_Stoan
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There are games for the casual gamer, then there are those games that require a major manual read (like BCM) or at least several runs through the tutorials.

What are some really good games you guys have played (other than BCM) that have required some serious manual reading or have just been a ***** to learn?

Here's my short list:

BCT Commander from shrapnel games. BCT Commander is about as realistic a ground combat game you are going to find, all of the vehicles are represented by NATO symbols on a map based on satelite data and played in real time. In other words, unless you have the time acceleration on, it may take you as long as three to eight hours to breach obstacles like minefields and tank ditches. It was written by an artillery officer in the army.

Sub Command from Sonalysts. Commanding nuclear submarines, the Seawolf, 688i, and Akula. The only manual to this game is on the CD, but this game is best played if you research information on tactics and procedures on the internet. This game has autocrews to man each of the stations unless you want to do all of the sonar/radar/ESM contact designation, identification, target motion analysis, and launch presets all by yourself.

X-Plane from Laminar Research. This simulator is as hard as you make it. This simulator uses blade element theory and such to make the physics as realistic as possible. Flying a Cessna is quite easy, doing the entire reentry to landing with the space shuttle is a whole other matter. This one also includes the ability to fly on Mars realistically. It is up to version 7 now, and is updated continuously.

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Everquest.After near a year playing it you still feel like only a promising noob .Very hard to get used to play online if you never did it before.

IL-2 Sturmovik FB.Enter a combat with all settings in reallistic, and prepare to be blowed out of the sky so quick you will be saying for at least 10 minutes.

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WWIIOL. Hard friggin game, esp. the tanks. But once you get the hang of the lack of suspension, its very rewarding (As long as you don't play on the Frenchies side, PZIVs just sort of run circles around them and blow them to bits using the nice big radiator vent compliments the french engineers.)

Sub Command, also very difficult to get the hang of. As a matter of fact I still haven't gotten the hang of it.

Enigma. Maybe I'm just stupid, but this game gave me some trouble as well. Learned it quicker than sub command, but I still haven't gotten the hang of the sub combat yet.

Last but not least, Steel Panthers: World at War. This one is a fun one. Difficult to learn all the keys at first, but once you get the hang of it its a great game. Especially since its free! http://www.matrixgames.com Somebody go get it so I can kick your behinds in Play-By-Email!

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I don't understand why you guys think BCMG is so hard. Granted, the game doesnt hold your hand through everything in the beginning, but the premise is fairly simple. Get some money, go around, and blast shit. (Though I must admit trying to figure out tacops was quite an adventure).

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quote:

Originally posted by DeepFreeze:

I don't understand why you guys think BCMG is so hard. Granted, the game doesnt hold your hand through everything in the beginning, but the premise is fairly simple. Get some money, go around, and blast shit. (Though I must admit trying to figure out tacops was quite an adventure).

personally I've never found a game hard to play. Hard to master? maybe, but even wwiiol is relatively easy, you just gotta read the keymapping 3-4 times.

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Guest rtoolooze

Cmdr. WeeGee, since you like SPWAW, have you played Uncommon Valor, another great game from Matrix Games? Its also a game with a steep learning curve. But very fun to play, and covers the campaign for the south pacific in WW2. (Turn based)

I would'nt mind taking you on in a PBEM with that game.

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I have't played that one yet. Currently the only Matrix Games I own are Desert Fox and Lost Victories.

I've thought about getting Korsun Pocket, but don't have the money right now. Uncommon Valor looks pretty cool too, but once again, don't have the money.

Besides, I need to save up for UC.

And to add one to my list, almost forgot this one. This one falls under the hard to master category though.

Mahjonng. Computer or no computer, doesn't matter, this game is difficult to master no matter what. I forget how accurate this is, but this comes to mind, some chinese/japanese Philospher once said concerning it "Mahjonng takes a few minutes to learn the rules, but a lifetime to master" Or maybe that was concerning Chinese Checkers, but either way... still a hard game. (And before somebody says "But you can't remove all the tiles all the time" Thats rubbish. If you don't remove all hte tiles you loose the game. Duh! There's always a correct sequence to remove tiles.)

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quote:

I forget how accurate this is, but this comes to mind, some chinese/japanese Philospher once said concerning it "Mahjonng takes a few minutes to learn the rules, but a lifetime to master"

I seem to remember that from Othello but perhaps they borrowed it.

quote:

There's always a correct sequence to remove tiles

I beg to differ. I have had games with the last two tiles were on top of each other. But it's probably an unprovable theorem.

Try http://www.lenagames.com/ and get the free/shareware "Desktop Tapei". Three free setups, shareware if you want to buy more.

Edit: I may have to eat my words. She provides a Solution mode in the latest version.

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Guest rtoolooze

Ya, I've been thinking about picking up Korsun Pocket too. I alway's loved wargames like that. Which is why I love the computer.

I remember being a kid and having both Squad Leader, and Flat Top, (board games from Avalon Hill) reading and learning the manuals for weeks on end, and then trying to get my friends to play them with me. (I never could get them to play, grrrrr! D@mn sissy's) About the hardest game I could get them to play with me was Axis and Allies. (Good board game)

Anyway, with the computer, we can play games with steep learning curves all we want.

I'll probably pick up Korsun Pocket some time after UC.

p.s. You know, I don't know why I've never played SPWAW, just one of those games I've alway's over looked. Mabe I'll download it, learn it, and PBEM with ya.

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quote:

I beg to differ. I have had games with the last two tiles were on top of each other. But it's probably an unprovable theorem.

Hmm, thats odd; its probably a 1 in 1,000,000,000 chance.

Actually, there could have been a different sequence earlier on that would have removed that tile on top. We'll never know unless you get that exact stack though.

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I think for me the following are some of the more difficult sims--not too hard to learn, at least not taking years, but extremely difficult to master. Kind of like the game 'Othello'.

Falcon 3.0

Falcon 4.0 and SuperPaks

Grand Prix Legends (Lifetime investment)

NASCAR Racing Season 2003 (Easy, until you realize your 12 seconds too slow because of setup issues....)

SimCity 4 Rush Hour (all my folks are dyin')

Silent Hunter II

Thats just a few, and I did not include any that had a steep learning curve (or should it be a 'shallow' learning curve???) due to simply being too buggy to play.

rvs

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I have just found out about an upcoming game from Sonalysts (publisher yet to be determined). Sonalysts of course, made Jane's 688i, Jane's Fleet Command, and Sub Command.

The new sim they are working on is called Dangerous Waters. This will be similar to Sub Command but with more drivable craft. Dangerous waters will include all three of the subs from Sub Command, (688i, Seawolf, Akula)in addition will be a Kilo class diesel boat, a frigate (FFG-7), and two aircraft, a MH-60R helicopter and a P-3 Orion.

It is planned that there will be a cooperative multiplayer mode, players being able to man different stations on the same ship and coordination between aircraft and surface ships. The frigate will be able to feed waypoints to other player flown aircraft.

For more info on DW and other submarine and naval games, go here

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