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Warren Spector and Thief3 team laid off

Shamelesss ganked from here

quote:


Quoting off Shacknews, Warren Spector has left Ion Storm. While Ion Storm Austin was a laughing stock producing the amazingly unprofitable Diakatana the "other" Ion Storm that Warren Spector worked for actually was successful. It made Deus Ex which was one of the best games of all time in my opinion and in an amazing feat of incompetence somehow screwed up the sequel. Deus Ex 2 will forever be remembered as one of the biggest and most profound disappointments in PC gaming and how anyone could screw up such a sure fire sequel remains beyond me. Messing up a sure thing hit like the sequel to the follow up "best game of the year" has to mean you did something wrong, which of course he has never admitted and in fact claims to be proud of the changes he made in the sequel. They just released Thief 3 which is based off the highly successful Looking Glass series and reviews are around 80. Seems they didn't **** it over like DX2 but they didn't try to make it that good either. They undoubtedly hurt sales by refusing to release a demo as well (mainly because the demo of DX2 probably cost them more sales than the game has made to date... it was that bad). I'll be getting the game today so expect to see some type of review on it in the next few days and a first impression later tonight. Really I have no sympathy for Mr. Spector. He still insists he did everything right with DX2 which is basically a kick in the nuts to all your fans because very VERY few people who bought Deus Ex bought Deus Ex 2. I have no problem with a designer wanting to take a creative license but when you make an incredible ground breaking new genre and then turn the sequel of it into a carbon copy action first person shooter your gunna take A LOT of shit for it. If he was so dead set on making a good console game (DX2 was clearly meant to be a console game and not a PC game see many forum posts on the issue on the Eidos forums) he should have just created one rather than trying to fit a square peg in a round hole. It takes a serious amount of ****ing up to destroy a game series as popular as Deus Ex but Mr. Spector managed to do it with only 1 sequel so I'm not surprised he left, was let go, or fired or whatever it may be. Really my only comment to him would be, "what the hell did you expect?".

Ok after some AIMing and emails I'll elaborate on why dues ex 2 was such a goddamn failure. First let's see what made DX 1 a success. It was totally revolutionary. You had a first person shooter, stealth game play from Thief, cyberpunk hacking, rpg skills, interactive computer systems, and an amazingly deep story. You can read my review for more details. Basically DX 2 took all of this and ignored it. DX 2 had no rpg elements, had no sneaking, had shitty AI, a cheap hackneyed story where nothing you did mattered until the last level, and awful performance despite terrible graphics, and totally unrealistic and lame computer hacking (you had a button marked "hack" that always worked and then you had unlimited time to do whatever you want). The only things the original and sequel had in common was the general game world and the ability to collect and use cybernetic augmentations. While it would have been ok for the game to be a spin off series, marketing it as the sequel to one of the most successful and revolutionary games of all time was a very, very bad idea. The game was severely dumbed down to make it "more accessable" to the XBOX and new players and by doing so they killed the highly complex world and game play that made Deus Ex such a hit. You can't dumb down classical art and make it better.


[ 05-28-2004, 01:39 PM: Message edited by: Supreme Cmdr ]

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Guest Hellbinder[CE]

I just cant believe all these dev teams and creative houses that are getting laid off/shut down. And in the meantime one bad game or stupid ripoff game after the next gets released.

It is a scarry thought to think of how bad the game market will be even 5 years from now.

I *guess* publishers are necessary but in my opinion they are destroying the PC game market.

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Guest Remo Williams

quote:

Originally posted by Cmdr Chavik:

Got my copy. 3 Discs; 3 Gig worth of space required. Hehe. Time to install.

I went out and grabed a copy today after reading this topic. I'm impressed with what I've seen so far. What are your impressions thus far Chavik?

The lighting and shadow FX are cool. I sort of like being able to switch to the third person perspective from time to time also, but mainly play in first person.

Also like how they changed how you pick locks. Its a bit more time consuming until you get the hang of it, but alot more relistic IMO.

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I've been playing the demo to see how it ran before I picked it up, I'm pretty happy it can run 1024x768 with everything except bloom and vsync on. I do get a slowdown every now and again but nothing too bad.

As for actual gameplay I'm enjoying that too, though the demo seems to really load you up on equipment before each mission.

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Guest Remo Williams

quote:

Originally posted by Eclipse:

I've been playing the demo to see how it ran before I picked it up, I'm pretty happy it can run 1024x768 with everything except bloom and vsync on. I do get a slowdown every now and again but nothing too bad.

As for actual gameplay I'm enjoying that too, though the demo seems to really load you up on equipment before each mission.

Yeah the game play is well kept inline with the orignal premise. I was afraid they would have changed it but it looks like they have done Looking Glass justice.

Something else I notice is they did away with the sword and replaced it with a dagger nice change also in my book.

You won't have to worry about being over equiped in the full version. They give you only the very least you need to survive in the beginning.

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good to hear... one of the best things from the first two was deciding to use a water arrow on a torch or wait and try to sneak past to save the arrow for later.

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Thief 3 dosn't really look that great and it runs aweful. After a couple hours of SERIOUS tweaking I was able to push 16fps. What's bizarre is that I get the same framerate regardless of resolution and most graphic sliders. The game engine is, simply put, one of the worst I have EVER seen. It killed Deus Ex 2 (although that had other problems too) and, for me, it kills Thief. I'm wondering now if $163 is worth upgrading my Ti4600 to a Radeon 9800Pro. That's a lot of money for a starving-college-graphic-arts-student-who-desperately-needs-a-good-DV-camera. I think I'll go play through Far Cry again at 29fps.

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Guest Fox__Trot

The SC's become a damn rumor mongor just LOOK at that I really doubt they laid off Spector since he's a "developer" not a "programmer" and what not...

-Who cares- Fox

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quote:


Originally posted by Fox__Trot:

I really doubt they laid off Spector since he's a "developer" not a "programmer" and what not...

-Who cares- Fox


Rubbish. Anyone can get laid off - or quit - regardless of who or what you are in the biz.

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Scriv... Thief looks pretty good with the bells and whistles turned on... IIRC your card doesn't support any of teh DX9 stuff to get it looking pretty.

Not sure what your framerate problem is though it could be vid card linked, I'm running a constant 30 to 40 FPS with nearly everything turned up to max on a 9600pro.

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Runs fine for me. I'm not particularly fond of the scene loading within a level but I am getting used to it. I have no problems with at all with the game lagging or anything.

Scrivener has a vastly different opinion than I do. AKA he don't know what he talking about.

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Guest Fox__Trot

Eh still I hope spector isnt gone since I like his games... if he is "gone" I sort of hope he winds up over with the Tabula Rasa group since you know its "Lord British" making an MMO thats going to be "Diffrent" and since spector's the man behind theif 3 maybe we can get an MMO with REAL sneaking and stuff ... yeah... in my dreams..

*sigh*

Such a let down

-Fox

PS: Wait's to see if spectors really been fired - ign.com's got a report (quote follows)

"Ah rumors... well that sounds like a good one... but it is just a rumor," said the representative. "He certainly has not been laid off."

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quote:

Everybody is entitled to their own opinion.

Perhaps I was a bit harsh.

quote:

I'm downloading the Demo to see if I can get it running on my ageing system.

Your system is better than mine and I have no problems. A bit of a wait on scene loading but that's it. I have a 9600SE. I'd be curious to hear about your experience. Maybe it just barfs on certain vid cards.

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quote:

Originally posted by Cmdr Chavik:

Your system is better than mine and I have no problems. A bit of a wait on scene loading but that's it. I have a 9600SE. I'd be curious to hear about your experience. Maybe it just barfs on certain vid cards.
:)

I have a older video card so I wanted to see how many FPS i can obtain for my machine. He might have had issues with the FPS b/c of a slow graphics card. I have trouble with UC around buildings.

I'll say something when I'am able to get through the demo a good ways.

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quote:

Originally posted by Cmdr Chavik:

quote:

Everybody is entitled to their own opinion.

Perhaps I was a bit harsh.

quote:

I'm downloading the Demo to see if I can get it running on my ageing system.

Your system is better than mine and I have no problems. A bit of a wait on scene loading but that's it. I have a 9600SE. I'd be curious to hear about your experience. Maybe it just barfs on certain vid cards. :)


Well after playing the game at 800x600, full shadow detail, bloom on. I got FPS that range from 10-45. There is a room early in the demo that is dark except that there is moon light shining in about 3 closed stained glass windows. There are numerous swords on racks that if you push the racks the swords will fall from the rack and clank on the floor(Cool :-)) this is where the FPS bottomed out.

Overall, this is a good game I have a few nitpicks here and there, but nothing that kills the game in my opinion.

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Guest Remo Williams

I love the game well what I've got to play of it anyway. Its to bad some people have to place blame on a game instead of their system where it belongs, but you hear the same thing around here from time to time about the BC series so whats that tell you.

I have all the bells and whisles blowing in the game and get about 50-55 FPS at 1024X768. At times it will drop to around 30 FPS but thats it.

Over all this is an excellent game I highly recommend it. Well for most people anyway.

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No I don't have the special wall climbing gloves yet.

I have completed the training mission which sort of morphs into a complete mission.

I am now on the second (first?) mission where you start in Garret's house and go to South Market Quarter, South Market Proper, and what not.

I made it to the Pagan underground then I got creeped out. That music and that sibilant chanting really gets me.

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