Video card shopping

[Guest]

I just bought a new PC last week with these specs:

466MHz Celeron

64mb of memory (will upgrade to 128mb)

Presently, I don't know what video card I want to buy. Should I wait for the new voodoo 5's this May or buy a GEForce card. I want to know which card you guys recommend and the lowest prices you can offer me. Thanx.

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"Do not fear the unknown, embrace it."

cmdr. Kron

ICV Vanguard

[Guest]

For performance go with the Geforce 2. It outperforms the V5500 for about $50 more (Unless you want to wait for the 64 meg version of the Geforce 2). However if cost isn't an issue then go with the over-the-top V6000 which has better image quality and a fill rate no one can even touch (Plus better compatibility and better Linux drivers).

Personally I think the Geforce 2 hits the sweet spot for price and performance (in comparison with the V5500 and V6000 voodoos).

[Guest]

The other advantage of the Geforce 2 is that they are supposedly now hitting stores. Compared to at least a month wait for the Voodoo 5 and a few months wait for the ATI Radeon.

[Guest Ron Wallin]

Dark, if you've got to choose between the Voodoo 5 and the GeForce 2, I personally would go with the GeForce 2 (the 128mb version if you have the money). However, the few reviews available put the voodoo 6 just slightly ahead on the visual qaulity (which is highly subjective and dependent on how you perceive your monitor).

Your best bet is to search the web (ezines, etc.) and find reviews. Then, based on the amount of money you want to spend, pick the card that best suits your needs.

Heck, I'm still using a 16mb TNT and it's pushing the games I play at more than 40fps. I'm happy with that. When and if I need the raw horsepower (aka, BCM, et al.) I'll upgrade. But I'll be upgrading to an Elsa or 3dLabs card for the processing I'm soon to need for my projects...

[Guest]

There's no 128 meg version of the GeForce 2 I know of in the works (though the card can support it). There is a GeForce 2 Ultra with 64 megs on the way but it wont be out for a bit (I'm sure they want to suck up as many 32 meg sales as possible before putting out the 64).

There is a 128 meg version of the Voodoo 5 called the 6000 (not the Voodoo 6), the card has a huge amount of memory bandwidth (something the Geforce 2's have a problem with) and an VERY high fill rate, if you can afford it it's an insane card.

[Guest Ron Wallin]

Yes, there is no 128mb version avail. yet. However, the technology does not yet exist for the HUGE memory bandwidth the voodoo is claiming... However, if you have the proof, leave the link!

BTW, perhaps the best review (impartial and accurate) i've found for the geforce is at Tom's. So far, he's the only one that seems to understand the issues: Due to the current RAM situation (DDR being the fastest I know of) and it's bandwidth limitations, NO vid processor will ever reach its true potential!

But, I rant... Like I said before: Decide how much you want to spend; look at the reviews; get the card that best fits your budget.

[This message has been edited by Ron Wallin (edited 05-03-2000).]

[Guest]

With a 466mhz Celeron you might want to go with a Geforce 1.

A Geforce 2 is a better card, but the rest of your system is probably not strong enough to take advantage of the additional power. Also, Geforce 2 cards cost about $350, while Geforce 1 cards cost $300 or less.

I recommend getting a Geforce 1, such as the Creative Annihilator Pro or Asus V6800. If you purchase a Geforce 1, make sure that it has DDR memory (it will say on the box - DDR memory costs more, but is much better than SDR memory). Use the money you save not getting a Geforce 2 to get an additional 64mb of RAM for your system.

If you had a faster system (Pentium III, 600mhz or faster) I would recommend getting a Geforce 2.

[This message has been edited by canusa (edited 05-03-2000).]

[Guest]

Ron Wallin: No problem... here you go...

http://www.hardwarezone.com/ubb/Forum2/HTML/022747.html

Here's a taste...

The V5 has the raw power to handle it, be it the 2-chip 5500 or the 4-chip 6000. The main thing about the 3dfx T-buffer FSAA is it uses a segmented memory pool for textures instead of the unified one used in the GTS(the Geforce 2) To see the benefit here is simple ... it spells "flexibility", We take the V5-5500 2 chip solution as an example, with this segmentation, each of the VSA-100 chip has access to the data it requires independently. Thus, a chip can be fetching texture data while the other is writing a pixel to the screen. It's like 2 persons rotating a given job, with 2 pairs of hands passing the items around, it speeds up the operation as in contrast to that of 1 person. In addition, the memory bandwidth is effectively doubled since in this case, we have two memory interfaces (2 x 128bit vs 128bit in the GTS). This design tops out faster and more advanced memory (eg.DDR) in terms of "effective" speed and bandwidth because the flexibility is just not into the other implementations. (*I cannot imagine what the VSA-100 can do with DDR memory although it doesn't support it for now.)

BTW I've found Tom's Hardware to be an extriemly biased sight and he's not well respected in certain parts of the hardware community. If you want the specifics I can give those too.

[Gallion]

Ok, here be my six-bits. I have recently completed componet procurement and final assembly of my nre system. I perused a plethora of locals doing research of various componets. Here is what I found:

ASUS 6800 - Decent GeForce based v-card for the $. Procured and installed. Lasted about a week before the black-screen-of-death (aka fried the v-card somehow )hit me. Replaced this card with the Hercules 3dProphet DDR-DVI - which is better performing v-card IMO.

Voodoo Based v-cards - Only go with these 3dFx chipset based v-cards if one must have a v-card that can handle Glide based software. I am also waiting for the Voodoo5-6000 v-card to hit the market.

Key to any v-card is the mobo. If your mobo cannot handle AGP 4x then what ever v-card one procures will be seriously hampered or next to useless.

TTFN

[Guest]

Untrue. At least with present Geforce DDR cards and avaialable CPUs, AGP4x makes virtually no difference.

I had the opportunity to compare 2 systems running Quake 2, at 1024x768 high detail. One system was a Dell Gigamine (1 ghz Pentium III) with Dell 64mb geforce DDR on Intel i820 mobo with AGP4x enabled. The other system was a Pentium III 600mhz overclocked to 828 mhz with AGP2x.

On this system, the overclocked rig outperformed the Gigamine in software mode and only performed 4 fps behind the gigamine in hardware (software: the 828 scored 24.5 fps, while the Gigamine scored 23.8 fps; hardware the 828 scored 116.8 fps, while the Gigamine scored 120.1 fps).

Note: because the overclocked system I was using was on a BX motherboard, the AGP port was overclocked. This means that the AGP4x on the Dell was only going 43% faster than the other computer rather than 100% faster for true AGP2x.

However, others agree that AGP4x doesn't make a significant difference in performance. Check out the Creative Labs Annihilator message board for posts or read the geforce faq (there should be links in that message board). Note: There are a LOT of messages in that board - they get 200 posts each day. Others concur that AGP4x makes little difference right now. You can confirm this Gallion by running timedemos with and without AGP4x enabled.

Bottom line: don't worry about AGP4x for the current generation of cards and CPUs. It doesn't affect performance much.

[This message has been edited by canusa (edited 05-05-2000).]

[Gallion]

quote:

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Bottom line: don't worry about AGP4x for the current generation of cards and CPUs. It doesn't affect performance much.

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This is true. I had to make a minor v-card swap and resorted to [old] Creative Blaster v-card (AGP 2x/4x) in new system and there is/was no noticable difference in new AGP 4x mobo (v-card still strapped and configured for AGP 2x).

However, IME when trying to run an AGP 4x v-card on mobo w/ AGP 2x slot (440bx based chipset) mega hangups and no-worky-worky. I should have been clearer in my previous post and stated that one may have difficulties running an AGP 4x v-card on a mobo with an AGP 2x/1x slot

This is my experience only, others will have various experience(s).

TTFN

[This message has been edited by Gallion (edited 05-05-2000).]

[Guest]

Thanx canusa. Will b getting a GeForce 1 card now. Makes sense getting a GeForce 2 card for the stronger processors though because of its special capabilities.