Steve Schacher Posted November 7, 2000 Report Posted November 7, 2000 I voted first thing this morning.Get out and VOTE!!!
Eclipse Posted November 8, 2000 Report Posted November 8, 2000 I voted ------------------ Commodore Kyle Antilles ICV-Eclipse, Destiny Starstation (Nevuela) Commanding Officer, Destiny Spectre Fleet"You can only love or hate something you truly understand"
GREG MILLER Posted November 8, 2000 Report Posted November 8, 2000 Yep, made it a number one priority after work. ------------------ Commander Greg Miller GCV - Sark, Orion Starstation (CENTRIS) Fleet XO, Wing Leader, Tsunami Battle Group www.orion-hq.fsnet.co.uk'Here cometh the storm!'
SpacePhish Posted November 8, 2000 Report Posted November 8, 2000 NADER... Too bad for AL. don't attack me beacuse of my opinion[This message has been edited by SpacePhish (edited 11-08-2000).]
Ben Zwycky Posted November 8, 2000 Report Posted November 8, 2000 Well, it seems you guys have made an interesting little game of it, haven't you? ------------------ Cmdr. Ben Zwycky GCV Svoboda, ISSHQ (Saturn) Centauri Flight Group Leader, Defence Wing - ISS Fleet email:[email protected] ICQ:72897748 "honour is what no man can give you, and no man can take away"[This message has been edited by Ben Zwycky (edited 11-08-2000).]
SpacePhish Posted November 8, 2000 Report Posted November 8, 2000 HOLY ****!!!!! You people watching the news! IT's so damn close! Gore acutally won the pouplar vote. Well, it's up to Florida now. CNN said the democratic stronghold has not had their voted counted yet and Gore is short by few thousand votes...hmmmm Bush still going to win? He has a chance so does Gore. If the latest count is accurate then Bush win, if not the Gore has a chance. BOY this election is gettin interesting...
GREG MILLER Posted November 8, 2000 Report Posted November 8, 2000 It certainly has been an interesting year for Florida. Elian Gonzales, The Presidental Election, and who can forget BC:M? ------------------ Commander Greg Miller GCV - Sark, Orion Starstation (CENTRIS) Fleet XO, Wing Leader, Tsunami Battle Group www.orion-hq.fsnet.co.uk'Here cometh the storm!'
Tyrn Posted November 8, 2000 Report Posted November 8, 2000 I'm afraid that it will come down to absentee ballots which only had to be mailed yesterday and may not all arrive until ten days from now. The are an estimated 2,300 absentee votes still out in Florida. The original count had Mr. Bush leading Mr. Gore by 1,793 votes. Unless the recount shows a gap wider than 10,000* votes (my estimate only) we're in for a very long 10 days....*I say 10,000 simiply because it is unimaginably unlikely that there are enough outstanding absentee ballots to overcome that number even though it is only .17 of a percent of Florida's popular vote at the moment.ps Greg reminds me that those ten days may not be so long afterall .------------------ Commander Tyrn Marcel GCV Falcon, Wraith HQ (Lyrius) Wing Leader - Wraith Fleet/S.O.G. Fast, Furious... FIRST!" Official BCM Beta Tester Team-5 Co-Leader[This message has been edited by Tyrn (edited 11-08-2000).]
SpacePhish Posted November 8, 2000 Report Posted November 8, 2000 LOL! Derek Smart for president..hmmm I mean for Galcom Supreme Commander!Those overseas votes usually are republican, so says Bush's camp. Opps, it's time for school, tho I'm going to pick up Delta Force 3 later today.
argee Posted November 8, 2000 Report Posted November 8, 2000 Sad thing is if Bush wins the electoral count he will become a president that got less total popular vote than Gore. I can see the debate across the country then. It will mean (and should) be the death of the elctoral college. Could Nader turn his 96000 votes in Fla. over to Gore? (not saying he would want to)
Wold Posted November 8, 2000 Report Posted November 8, 2000 I Voted...And no, Nader can't turn over his votes after the election to help another canidate. He would have to do that before the election by dropping out of the running. Of course if there is another election held in Florida, or even in some districts because of some mismanagement then the voters could rethink their positions....------------------ Commodore Wold ICV-Drakr, Spectre HQ (Antis) Commanding Officer, Spectre HQ Spectre FleetICQ 4669033 "You can only love or hate something you truly understand"
Eclipse Posted November 8, 2000 Report Posted November 8, 2000 I don't think that the electoral college should be abandoned, just revised.------------------ Commodore Kyle Antilles ICV-Eclipse, Destiny Starstation (Nevuela) Commanding Officer, Destiny Spectre Fleet"You can only love or hate something you truly understand"
Tyrn Posted November 8, 2000 Report Posted November 8, 2000 quote:Originally posted by argee: Sad thing is if Bush wins the electoral count he will become a president that got less total popular vote than Gore. I can see the debate across the country then. It will mean (and should) be the death of the elctoral college.Even if it does not happen, it should mean the end of the Electoral College. BTW, this would not be the first (fifth I think) time that the Electoral College vote was not the same as the popular vote. quote:Originally posted by Wold: Of course if there is another election held in Florida, or even in some districts because of some mismanagement then the voters could rethink their positions....Oh, I hope not. The backlash potential is too great for my liking. I simply hope and pray that one of the candidates (either one, although I voted for Bush) comes away a strong winner in Florida.------------------ Commander Tyrn Marcel GCV Falcon, Wraith HQ (Lyrius) Wing Leader - Wraith Fleet/S.O.G. Fast, Furious... FIRST!" Official BCM Beta Tester Team-5 Co-Leader
Cruis.In Posted November 8, 2000 Report Posted November 8, 2000 how democratic is that? Where one guy got the majority of votes but yet may not win....why have a vote if the majority doesnt win. ------------------ Captain Cruis In ICV St. Helens, Sygan Starstation (Sygan) CEO, Sygan Starstation Balor Fleet"You can only love or hate something you truly understand"
Akuma Minako Posted November 8, 2000 Report Posted November 8, 2000 Heh, I just hope Jean Chretchien dosen't win...He's such a Newfie. Umm.... I'm not making sense am I...Oh right you're all in the STATES! Well welcome to Canada ladies and gents, we're headed towards an insurgancy up here. Gawd. ------------------ Commander Akuma Minako GCV - Tenchi, Orion Starstation (CENTRIS) Deterrence Battle Group www.orion-hq.fsnet.co.uk
Steve Schacher Posted November 8, 2000 Author Report Posted November 8, 2000 quote:how democratic is that? Where one guy got the majority of votes but yet may not win....why have a vote if the majority doesnt win. First, everybody has to remember that we are not a democracy -- we are a Republic. That means we elect Representatives who do the actual voting, whether in Congress or the Electoral College. In the Electoral College it is the states that vote, not the people. A bit of history:The Constitution recognizes two main entities: the Federal government, and the States (made up of the people). James Madison said: quote:"The powers delegated by the proposed Constitution to the federal government are few and defined. Those which are to remain in the State governments are numerous and indefinite. The former will be exercised principally on external objects, as war, peace, negotiation and foreign commerce. ... The powers reserved to the several States will extend to all the objects which in the ordinary course of affairs, concern the lives and liberties, and properties of the people, and the internal order, improvement and prosperity of the State." There was no popular vote until about 1820 or so. Back then, distances between towns was great, and news traveled slowly. The states would vote on Electors who would travel to the state capitals, where they would deliberate on the candidates. The intent was that the most knowledgable or well-informed would make up a committee which would evaluate all the candidates and make a recommendation to the state as to who should be president. Then, the state votes would be tallied (weighted by population) and the winner would become President.Sometime around 1820, the popular vote started to be recorded, and this debate has been ongoing ever since.
Tyrn Posted November 8, 2000 Report Posted November 8, 2000 quote: The intent was that the most knowledgable (sic) or well-informed would make up a committee which would evaluate all the candidates and make a recommendation to the state as to who should be president. Then, the state votes would be tallied (weighted by population) and the winner would become President.In short, the citizens of the United States are now smart enough to choose for themselves, by popular vote, who should govern in every elected office except that of President.The intent of the Electoral College may have been noble and great, but in this Information Age is it anything but a hindrance to the exercise of the will of the people?PS. I'm not trying to put words into Steve's mouth here, just using his accurate description of the Electoral College as a spring board.------------------ Commander Tyrn Marcel GCV Falcon, Wraith HQ (Lyrius) Wing Leader - Wraith Fleet/S.O.G. Fast, Furious... FIRST!" Official BCM Beta Tester Team-5 Co-Leader[This message has been edited by Tyrn (edited 11-08-2000).]
Guest aramike01 Posted November 8, 2000 Report Posted November 8, 2000 Heh, I like the electoral college. It's determined by population. And, the popular vote of each state is taken into account. The reason for the disparity is simple - a lot of people don't vote. The way the electoral college is set up, with each states electoral vote numbers decided by the population, if every eligable voter in each state voted, it would be nearly an even hypothetical impossibility that the nation's popular vote would lose. Especially if they did it the right way and divided it by district. I mean, let's say Florida is decided by one vote. That state's populace is split. But all 25 votes go to the victor. Heh. Btw, I, for one, don't see voting as a priviledge or a right - I see it as a responsibility.------------------ Vice Admiral Michael Kristophers ICV-Intrepid, Spectre (Antis) Fleet Leader Spectre Fleet Official Tester, Battlecruiser SeriesYou can only love or hate what you truly understand![This message has been edited by aramike01 (edited 11-08-2000).]
Steve Schacher Posted November 8, 2000 Author Report Posted November 8, 2000 The other thing about the Electoral College is this:The Constitution recognizes two main entities: The Federal Government and the State Governments. This was intended to be a Federal government of the people (through the States, based on the Tenth Amendment). These governments had to mutually co-exist. Individuals were represented as States, and the States were represented in the Federal government.Regarding the Electoral College, think of it as each State government having its own Presidential election. It is the States that decide the President, not the individual people. The people vote within their states, and then the State votes for the President.Congress is also aligned by State. Each state gets two Senators and several representatives. If we want to eliminate the Electoral College as a State device, why don't we also eliminate State representation in Congress and elect everybody by national election?
Whisper Posted November 9, 2000 Report Posted November 9, 2000 Going off with what Aramike said: yes, many people don't vote. Heard on CNN that about 25% were predicted to not show up. In some (but not many) cases, this is do to some event that prevents people from going to the stations. But most people either don't feel like it or don't think there vote will matter OR don't endorse any canidate. Russia has recently created a new option for the "Don't Matter"'s and "Everone's an @@$"'s of the voting populace. Now in every ballot in the country a "None of the Above" mark is availabe. If "None" beats all the canidates, the parties have 3 months to put together another canidate, and the old ones are chucked. This seems quite democratic. People are now able to state thier dislike for everyone. Very nice. Vote yes on "None"!
Tyrn Posted November 9, 2000 Report Posted November 9, 2000 quote:Originally posted by Steve Schacher: . . . why don't we also eliminate State representation in Congress and elect everybody by national election?Because such an idea is the epitomy of stupid and we both know it. Here's your chance to convince me: If you can in anyway show the benefits of the Electoral College, and I don't want you to run the rhetoric cirlce you've already shown - I want real concrete benefits, as compared to the benefits of state representation in Congress then I'll buy the belief that the Electoral College is beneficial. Simply to say that it represents the states is not good enough because by your arguement, why don't we just let the Senate and House determine the President?!------------------ Commander Tyrn Marcel GCV Falcon, Wraith HQ (Lyrius) Wing Leader - Wraith Fleet/S.O.G. Fast, Furious... FIRST!" Official BCM Beta Tester Team-5 Co-Leader[This message has been edited by Tyrn (edited 11-09-2000).]
Steve Schacher Posted November 9, 2000 Author Report Posted November 9, 2000 Read this article ( http://presidentelect.org/letter.html ) for one person's view on how the Electoral College actually gives minorities stronger representation in national presidential elections than they would have in a popular vote. Here's an excerpt: quote:The Electoral College protects minority interests from a tyrannical majority. For example in a direct election, since African-Americans account for about 13% of the population, they could only account for 13% of the vote. In the Electoral College, African-Americans account for 25% of Alabama's 9 votes, 27% of Georgia's 13 votes, 31% of Louisiana's 9 votes, etc. Farmers, once a very influential constituency, now make up less than 4% of the population. Why would a candidate worry about this small group in a direct election? In the Electoral College system, farmers do make up sizable parts of several states, and thus their combined strength in a smaller pool of voters gives them more power. Because minority groups (be they African-Americans in the south, farmers in the midwest, etc) are usually concentrated in some states and not spread evenly throughout the country, their influence is greater. quote:why don't we just let the Senate and House determine the President?! They do, in the case of an electoral vote tie.[This message has been edited by Steve Schacher (edited 11-09-2000).]
Gallion Posted November 9, 2000 Report Posted November 9, 2000 quote:...Simply to say that it represents the states is not good enough because by your arguement, why don't we just let the Senate and House determine the President?!Depending on how the Electoral Vote goes on Dec 18th, we just may get a chance to see this fubar in action. Last time was in 1876 I believe, The House of Perpetraitors elected Hayes as the president 56 hours before inauguration. He lost both the popular and electoral college elections.Love it or leave it I say. If one leaves then take someone along.TTFN------------------ Fleet Commander Gallion (Pro Tem) GCV Graf Spee, Starbase Cerberus Fleet Leader - Wraith Fleet (Pro Tem) Wing Leader - Wraith Fleet/Corsair Wing "Run Silent, Run Deep" Corsair Cove Official Tester, Battlecruiser Series[This message has been edited by Gallion (edited 11-09-2000).]
Tyrn Posted November 9, 2000 Report Posted November 9, 2000 quote:Originally posted by Steve Schacher: Read this article ( http://presidentelect.org/letter.html ) for one person's view on how the Electoral College actually gives minorities stronger representation in national presidential elections than they would have in a popular voteNow that makes sense. Doesn't mean I like it but at least I can see a reason to keep it in place. As to the tie situation...knew that and it is one reason why I don't like the Electoral College but then again any vote can turn up a tie and there has to some mechanism to break it. Here's another interpretation of why it exists from CNN: quote:The reason we have an Electoral College is that the founding fathers thought there would be several candidates for president and that the Electoral College would narrow the field to two or three. Then the House would make the decision. But the party system made the Electoral College a rubber stamp and the process simply didn't work out the way the founding fathers thought it would.------------------ Commander Tyrn Marcel GCV Falcon, Wraith HQ (Lyrius) Wing Leader - Wraith Fleet/S.O.G. Fast, Furious... FIRST!" Official BCM Beta Tester Team-5 Co-Leader
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