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Ship versus ship wars (yep another one)


Outlaw
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Tac, I don't remember that Photon Torpedoes can travel at warp speed. They always show the torpedoes exiting the launch tube, they always show a few seconds travel time, THEN they show the explosion. If photon torpedoes travel at warp (faster than light right?) then the explosions would be instantaneous.

Don't ST ships battle at sublight speeds anyway? So unless they zip in at warp, pop off a shot, zip back out, zip back in ad nauseum I don't think the hyperjump vs warp argument works.

BCFreak13 wrote:

quote:

Remember that all of these ships are in different galaxies.

That's my problem right there. I am assuming that ST photon torpedoes and the various BC3K missiles would pack about the same punch in this particular fictional scenario we are talking about. ST Phasers would pack about the same punch as the BC3K IOD and PTA and so on and so forth.

I would have to give Warp speed to Star Trek and the weapons ranges. Given that ST wins even if weapons were totally comparable.

I'm just thinking of the visually close battles one would get into in Starfleet Command. Entirely different from what everyone else is talking about.

Nice theories. I enjoyed discussing.

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OK, one thing. I remember reading somewhere that if one kilogram of matter was converted to energy, you'd get an explosion that would equal 22 megatons of TNT- like a medium yield fusion bomb. So, if you stick half a kilogram of matter with half a kilogram of antimatter, you'd probably get an explosion approaching 22 megatons (M/AM reactions are, for all practical purposes, 100% efficient- they convert each other's mass directly into energy). Imagine what a much larger warhead or a warp core breach could do. Just thought that'd be useful.

Now for warp torpedoes. In Star Trek, I think that conventional photon and quantum torpedoes can only travel at warp when launched at warp. They cannot accelerate to warp velocities because they lack a warp drive. When launched at sublight speeds they remain STL. When launched at warp, they are FTL. I refer you to ST:I, where the enterprise destroys an asteroid (or other object in its way- I don't remember at the moment) with photon torpedoes while travelling at warp.

For the ol' "it's a laser" argument- Star Wars energy weapons (turbolasers, blasters, etc.) are probably not lasers. Lasers travel at the speed of light and are invisible. You don't see bright bolts or beams, no matter how powerful the weapon is. Perhaps throughout the rather lengthy time spacefaring technology existed in the SW universe, "Laser" simply came to mean "energy weapon." It is quite possible that SW "lasers" are, in fact, plasma weapons (which would work very well against ST shields- ST shields have a history of succumbing to ionized gas in nebulae). Such weapons would be, though, no match for the sheer power of antimatter warheads.

By the way, the constant 'c' is, in science, the speed of light- just to back Epsilon up. Those top speeds for those SW ships probably only had to do with their sublight engines (otherwise the time it takes to go between stars would exceed your lifetime- even when factoring in relatavistic effects [which are rather insignificant at those speeds]).

[ 05-07-2001: Message edited by: Sunanta ]

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I remember reading recently on the ST site that Torpedos are the only weapons that can be launched when a ship is in warp which would explain the FTL travel speeds of torpedos, if a torp is launched at warp it stays at that speed, likewise if launched at impulse it stays sublight.

The speed of the Capitol ships given above is for sublight speed each ship has a seperate hyperspace modifier giving its Light speed multiplier.(thus a ship with a X2 multiplier is only going half light speed which most of the capitol ships have) The M. falcon on the other hand has a .5 multiplier which means you multiply its travel time by .5 meaning its travelling at twice light speed.

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That was what I heard- For ST, Only Torpedoes can be launched while at FTL speeds. Probably since Phasers are a lot slower and if they fired going even Warp 1 the energy would rip through the hull. Like spitting ahead of a car and it hits you in the head.

And yes, SW lasers aren't really lasers, they are plasma energy stored in a small magnetic field which is discharged and recharged easily. Laser was a term back in the '70s that seemed to mean "high energy weapon", until people finally got it in their skulls that it was really just light amplified enough to become visible as a line or whichever, that can also be used as a sort of data transceiver (CDs are a prime example). Although it can be used as a weapon- just shoot a beam into someone's eyes and they're blinded.

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Guys... I know that this may not be much ... but I have seen a anime abt a ship called Sol Bianca and although the size of it is like that of a BC, it has awesome power.

Imagine a ship that can regenerate and parts it looses and they are not holographic, but actual usable parts that were destroyed ( dun know how it works ) and weapons that emit out like streams of beam weapons that have the ability to bend and slice thru any ship ( even shielded ones ) like butter. Yet it is as small as a BC. Hmmmmmm a dream come thru??? Well I think that this is the only ship that has teh abilty to rival all other ships mentioned here. If you guys have not heard of it, look for a Japanese anime called Sol Bianca it has english subtitles and you will see what I mean.

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What about ION cannons? I wonder if they would dissable ST ships......I guess no one will know......

But In the book: "Star Wars: THe Essential guide to Weapons and Technology" it says "When a blaster is fired, a small amount of high-energy blaster gas moves from the gas champer to the gas conversion enabler. There the gas is excited by energy from the weapon's power source........The excited gas passes into the actuating blaster module, where it is processed into a beam comprised of intense energy particles coupled with light. The prismatic crystal focuses the beam, and is futher focused as it passes down the barrel. The final particle beam, or bolt contains high energy particles that cause tremendous damage to anything they hit; the bolt's visible light is a harmless by-product of this reaction.

Thats how blasters work, and One can probably assume that that is also how the big turbolasers on the big ships work too..... So it is not just light.. it is gas or something along those lines.

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Ok if we're going to bring anime/manga into this then there is one ship that deserves a mention, do you remember a series years ago Robotech, well the battlecruiser called the SDF1 in that series was a power to contend with, measuring over 3/4 mile long with an aircraft carrier strapped to one side carrying its fighter craft the main weapon on the ship was devastating..... and the range was huge aswell (I think in the first episode it destroy three capitol ships orbiting the moon from earth)

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The SDF-1, at optimal operating efficiency would be able to smack around just about anything it came into contact with. The main gun could chew even the Colossus to pieces from far outside of it's range, and it's fighter compliment would have the advantage of maneuverability over just about anything. The only problem they'd have would be lack of shielding on them, and their hulls are practically paper thin (aside from the main character's Veritechs of course.. bwa haha). Of course, the SDF-1 might get into trouble if just about every damn ship from every game/movie was thrown at it....

Well, maybe Star Trek might have an edge. Cloaking devices would let a ship get close enough to do massive damage before the crew even realized what was happening.... and the pin-point-barrier-system isn't exactly the most efficient defense system in existence. Still though, the SDF-1 could pull it's weight in a fight, at the least, and then some.

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Ooo goody! Another techie discussion!

About ST photorps and phasers:

According to the ST:TNG Technical Reference manual, phasers travel at c and are therefore useless at warp (with one very narrow exception: there's a good chance at hitting a target in warp when firing dead ahead at a ship approaching dead on); phaser effective range is limitted to 300000km too (1 second and higher travel times give targets too much time to evade). Photorps launched sublight travel sublight, though they can accelerate some but not past c. Launched in warp, they have a warp sustainer coil that keeps them moving at about warp 9.

About ST ship caps.

HEY! Who forgot to put in the Death Star?! If we assume we got a completed DS II on our hands without the silly exhaust port vulnerability, that'd probably kick some booty! But then maybe this qualifies as a station, but if it does it sure moves around a lot...

Robotech:

Awesome series! Have all the eps on video and CDROM RealMedia format, plus all 21 books! (BTW, did I mention I'm a Robotech fan? ) Agree 100% that SDF-1 main gun (when operable ) would do some serious damage to anything in its way. Then you got its Daedalus Maneuver, where it literally punches an arm into a ship's hull and then disgorges a zillion missiles inside the poor ship. Fat lotta good armor/shields will do you there. Though I'm not too sure if it could do this on a ship with raised shields; it'd probably have to wear them down first. And besides the pin-point shield system, it also later had a general shield system that had an unfortunate tendancy to overload under heavy fire and then cause a catastrophic explosion 50 miles in diameter. Which means that if BCs concentrated enough fire on it and then got way out of the way, they could probably strip it of shields. SDF-1's main weakness would be its poor shielding, but it's still physically huge and defended by an large number of fighters. It's hull armor is also self-repairing to a degree...

And let's not forget the Robotech Master's motherships either; from what I recall the Army of the Southern Cross was just barely able to hold their own against them mainly because the motherships were running critically low on their Protoculture fuel reserves. Operating at full capacity, a mothership had its powerful guns, the "snowflake" shield array that managed to turn aside all incoming fire and so on... Early victories against them were more luck than effective combat. And the Zentraedi: well, those ships may be more or less comparable to a BC but without shields, but then again they have 4 million capital ships not to mention the ships' Battlepod fighters, so sheer numbers may give them an edge if nothing else does. The Invid AFAIK never had any capital ships, just the clamshell carriers which weren't too heavily armed.

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quote:

Originally posted by Joel Schultz:

Robotech:

Awesome series! Have all the eps on video
and
CDROM RealMedia

Any idea where I can get the episodes I have about the first 9 but they took them off the market before I could complete the series.

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Have you forgetan wing comannder,(Damn spelling) I bet the tiger claw could fall to any of the above mentioned ships in a matter of seconds, (WC1, when I fail a mission I kill it... about 1 minuet of continus fire,,, boom)

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any WC ship would be easy meat for any ship of any other universe.

Could I have a copy of that PM? I got the original Macross series in vhs, but id like them on DVD.

The ONLY thing that really dissapointed me when I was in Japan was the lack of subtitled anime DVD's I did find translated manga everywhere, but no anime. *sniff*

The domes on top of the ISD's towers are their shield generators. Where are you getting the idea they are not? a pair of A-Wings blew them up before the final A-Wing crashed into the conn room.

Why am I still in this subject? heehee.. must be the anime....

PD: Anime lovers, get a copy of EARTHIAN. Damn good pair of movies, worth every damn penny at ANY price you get them at. Try Amazon.com first

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Guest macross

I'll throw my support in for the SDF-1 Macross (love that ship - hence my nick), but I think it's been covered pretty well (the main cannon could really take out just about anything, but it is a bit lacking in the shield department.). Oh, and the slow recharge is another vulnerability...

Here's a question for you anime fans:

SDF-1's main cannon vs. the Yamato's wave motion cannon...which would win?

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Guest macross

Oh, speaking of ships from different universes fighting...I just remembered - I have a video tape lying around my house somewhere (buried amongst a few hundered anime tapes) of a "movie" called X-23 Part II: Electric Boogaloo, which is a tape a guy made of different ships fighting.

This guy was working at a PBS station in Alabama (I met him at DragonCon), so he had access to great video editing equipment. He would make the different ships fight just by creative editing - one shot of the Yamato firing it's guns, followed by a shot of, say, the Enterprise being hit. Pretty funny stuff, but it's two and a half hours, so it definately drags.

Lessee, I think it included the Yamato (from Starblazers) versus the Enterprise-A, the Arcadia (from Captain Harlock) versus the Enterprise-D...um, I remember a bit about the chicks from Bublegum Crisis versus the T-1000...I may have to go dig that up again and watch it...

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Children........ You guys don't get it. Even if all the ships were in the same galaxy and every thing still worked, The Death Star 2 and Eye of Palpatine, would destroy alot of ships. Then the rest of the Star Wars galaxy would follow up and take out another huge chunk. And if all else fails, retreat to Courasant. The shields on that planet are 4 layers thick and they have a huge generator powering it. (Yes planets can have shields the bothan home world and Mon Calamari does too) Plus if all the powers of the universe banded together (New Republic, Ssi-Ruvii, Imperial Reminant, Yuuzhan Vong, and all the smugglers, pirates, etc.) They would decimate those ST and BC and all those anima shows. And if they got all the shipyards together in one place they could churn out at least another Death Star and a few thousand fighters in a month. Think about all of the forces in the Star Wars universe and the type of weapons they have. The Death Star 2 would have been very difficult and the way they constructed it, the super laser would recharge in a matter of minutes. Star Wars is the ultimate power in the universe and no matter what all you guys and girls tell me I wont be convinced other wise. So pleasee take into recognition all of the Star Wars forces. I know Star Trek have alot too, but their hulls are relatively thin. Ever time they are in a fight, every three minutes "We have a hull breach, putting up annular containment field." They rely too much on shields. Plus if needed the Empire has cloaking shields. And just to tell you, Yes there are Ssi-Ruvii they are in the book "Truce at Bakura" Yuuzhan Vong are in the book "Dark Tide II" The Imperial Cloacking shield is in the book "Specter of the Past" just so you know. Now if you'll excuse me I have better things to do.

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BCFreak13 don't get upset. We are not trashing Star Wars. Remember the title of this thread is ship vs ship. Which I take to mean one on one.

Star Wars, even if you take only the movies, is a highly populated galaxy/universe. The only thing that could compete with them would be other highly populated universes like Babylon 5. Then you have to say that everyone in one universe is against every one in the other universe.

Personally I think the shadow ships from Babylon 5 would team with the Empire from Star Wars. All the good guys from Babylon 5 would side with the rebels from Star Wars and they would gain more members as they went on.

Ship vs ship: What about a solarian class interceptor from BC3k against a TIE fighter? In Star Wars a Tie fighter vs X wing; one could take the other out with a couple good shots. Solarian interceptors have shields so all else being fairly equal it's a no brainer to me.

What about a B5 fighter against a TIE fighter?

Any Wing Commander fighter against a TIE fighter?

Any Wing Commander fighter against any BC3K fighter?

Some interesting scenarios in there.

Ship vs ship.

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If you want to compare fighters, think this:

The Tie/fighter-interceptor have no shields. They are cheap fighters made by thousands.

The tie/phantom is not truly known, but it's a large fighter vessel with 3 lasers, a strong shield, and a cloaking.

The tie/advanced-defenders should be the one to be compared to other universe's fighters.

A IC would win against a t/f, maybe against a t/i, but I doubt it would against a t/a or t/d. Maybe a Zenstar of s24-raven would.

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  • 7 months later...

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