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Gun Control


AWells
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Anyways, reading the latest issue of "America's First Freedom," a magazine published by the National Rifle Association, and they have an in depth article on gun control across the pond in the UK. It made for interesting reading, and I was wondering what other peoples opinions on the issue is, especially considering the fact we have people from that side of the pond in our little community here. Here's a few of the highlights that the article mentioned...

England enjoys a near total ban on firearms and is currently working on adding pellet and bb guns to the banned list, and Australia isn't too far behind as far as gun control goes.

England and Australia have the highest crime rates among the top 17 industralized nations. The UN Interregional Crime and Justice Institute released a report in July which found England and Wales to be far ahead of the rest of the Western world in violent crime.

In 1999 a farmer confronted three burglars in his home with a shotgun. He killed one, wounded another, and third got away. All three burglars had between 29-53 prior arrests for eveything from burglary to assault police officers. The farmer recieved a life sentence for the burglar he killed, ten years for the one he wounded, and an additional 12 months for having an illegal weapon (a higher court later overturned the sentencing and reduced it to a total of 7 years).

The wounded burglar was actually consulted on the issue of whether his intended victim should be eligable for parole! Even worse, the burglar is out of prison already, while the farmer is still locked up and the Government has given the burglar 5,000 pounds (roughly equal to $7,000 or so US) to help fund a lawsuit by the hardened criminal against the farmer who shot him!

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Did you REALLY needed to make something about this? You must be sadistic!

I'm NOT participating. The concerned people (AKA Jaguar) know my opinion, and i won't change it. However, I find pellet guns banning a little extreme. Personally as long as you cannot carry guns publicly, or that the access to guns is not fast and easy (such as a shotgun in the locker), and the owners trackerd for any danger, I'm ok. I'll probably go buy myself a BB rifle some day, not more.

and the farmer conviction is unfair. He should have gotten a year or less, mainly becasue he had an illegal weapon.

[ 09-25-2002, 04:25 AM: Message edited by: Epsilon 5 ]

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Gun Control means hitting what you are shooting at. That's my opinion.

The year gun's were banned in Australia, bank robberies soared I believe some 73%.

In England last year several women were raped by a man who was armed with a small caliber pistol since no one could defend themselves.

Screw gun control.

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I am not only a member of the NRA, I am a certified gun safety instructor.

I carry a concealed weapon at ALL times, own a number of weapons, have trained mmy 6 year old daughter in the rules of gun safety, have taken her shooting, a Winchester 67A single shot .22 caliber rifle is what she uses.

I am an expert marksman, 2 inch shotgroup at 50 yards with my carry weapon, and if assaulted, I will shoot to kill. NOT wound, KILL.

I believe in the right of self defense, a criminal LOVES unarmed victims, and if a country outlaws it's citizens from defending themselved via firearms, then they create a NATION full of victims.

Also, If you are NOT allowed to defend yourself with a firearm, you are NOT a citizen, you are a subject, a serf.

The old saying that I have on my car is as right about gun control as any that I have seen.

"If you outlaw guns, Only Outlaws will have guns"

In other words, criminals do not care about the law, THAT'S why they are called CRIMINALS.

[ 09-25-2002, 11:02 AM: Message edited by: Jaguar ]

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I'm glad that I live on this side of the pond..

And I'm for gun control, not everyone is as responsible with guns as Jaguar.

Consider the phrase "Opportunity makes a thief"..

That kind of proves that the phrase "If everone had a gun there would be no crime" is a myth.

And Jag, murder is murder, if you can disable without killing, do it.

Yes, I have a hunting permit.

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Cur,

To kill someone in self defense is NOT murder, it's not even MANSLAUGHTER.

If someone breaks into my house, I will kill him. To disable is to invite lawsuits of all sorts.

Kill the perpetrator, he's 6 ft under and cannot sue me. That is the problem with all these crazy lawyers, if I weren't afraid of getting sued, I would wound the perp.

And who is going to say who is responsible and who is not?

Does that mean that if I feel that you cannot be responsible with your speech, that I can regulate that as well? Some people are just too stupid to speak out in public, should we be allowed to regulate that?

The 2nd amendment is a RIGHT, not a priviledge like driving a car. ANY type of regulation is unconstitutional.

Therefore to regulate it is against the rules. It is self regulating. when someone commits a crime with a weapon, they should either be killed in the act by another armed citizen, or should be tossed in jail for life. PERIOD, no 3 strikes, no nothing, if you commit a crime with a firearm, you are going away for ever.

That would cause the armed crime rate to plummet. and it has, wherever the crime with a weapon has been enforced, the crijme rate with a weapon has dropped remarkably.

Regulate ownership is not the answer, because it's no ones business but the owner of the weapon.

AGAIN, it is a CONSTITUIONAL right, RIGHTS cannot be regulated by the government, PERIOD!!!

[ 09-25-2002, 03:01 PM: Message edited by: Jaguar ]

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quote:

The poor guy probably only had a double barrel, should have had an Automatic and none of the witnesses would have survived!!!


Actually it was a pump action Winchester holding 5 shots. I think I read somewhere on that site I linked to that the wounded burglar was hit with over 100 pellets, so he was probably shooting bird shot which is probably why he only killed one of them. The lesson... use at least #4 shot for defense.

A few more misc tidbits from across the way in the United Victim... you're statistically 3 to 4 tmes more likely to mugged in London than in New York City. Doctors in England are recieving training from Army personnel on battlefield medical techniques in response to the ever growing number of gun shot wounds. Two school teachers were arrested recently for having guns in thier house... I bet that people in England feel safer knowing guns are out of the hands of those dangerous teachers.

Also, the same British lawmakers who brought the nation the joys of gun control are looking at other ways to combat crime. One of their latest ideas is the doing away with the protection from double jeopardy. This will allow the government to prosacute the same person over and over again for the same crime until they get a conviction. Also, they want this new change to be retroactive. This means they could bring somebody back to court for a crime they were found innocent of 10 years ago or more.

And of course some nice bits of info from the good ole US of A...

In a two year audit is was discovered that the Immigration and Natulization Service had some 539 weapons (mostly firearms) that they seem to have misplaced... the FBI has an additional 212 weapons that seem to have been lost. There's also an additional 211 FBI weapons that went missing in a period not covered by the audit.

At LAX airport, security screeners consficated a 2" plastic rifle from a G.I. Joe figure. It's nice to know that GI Joe won't be hijacking any aircraft, isn't it?

During the Clinton administration, Janet Reno sent 130 federal agents armed with automatic weapons to 'rescue' 6 year old Elian Gonzalez and send him back to Cuba. Just 10 miles away from this spectacle of government force in action terrorists where taking flight lessons in preparation for Sept. 11th.

[ 09-25-2002, 03:35 PM: Message edited by: Litvyak ]

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quote:

Does that mean that if I feel that you cannot be responsible with your speech, that I can regulate that as well? Some people are just too stupid to speak out in public, should we be allowed to regulate that?

I'm not familiar with any vocal expression that could physically harm anyone, so your analogy is a bit lacking.

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quote:

I'm not familiar with any vocal expression that could physically harm anyone, so your analogy is a bit lacking.


I seem to recall a particular European leader who took power in the 1930's. Vocal expression was his strong point, actually. Through his speeches and rhetoric he insighted a nation to support genocide and a campaign of conquest that cost millions of lives. Oh... and he supported gun control, too

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No Cur,

It is NOT lacking, but since you are in Finland I will give a little lesson in the Bill of Rights over here on the other side of the pond.

1st amendment of the United States constitution states.

quote:

Amendment I

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances.


Now I will show you the 2nd amendment.

quote:

Amendment II

A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state,
the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed.
(emphasis added)


You'll notice that it is the 2nd amendment, not the 3rd, not the 4th, the 2nd.

They are in order of importance.

In the US, a CITIZEN has a right to keep and bear arms, PERIOD!! Therefore, Since the government cannot regulate the 1st amendment, The government CANNOT regulate the 2nd.

NO, the analogy is NOT lacking, not when thought about in a constitutional context.

Again, you are from Finland, so I will forgive you not knowing this, but if you were a US citizen, I would have bitten your head off for NOT knowing your rights, and not realizing the context.

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Is it me or does it seem like half the people who are aganst Gun Control want it like it was in the days of the Old West? When nearly everyone carryed a 45 on their hip.

Just imagine that today...

You'd have Jhon Who fanatics carying twin Beretta 92s, Macho men and old grannies carrying Desert Eagles, war vets with their colt 1911s, Dirty Hary wannabes and other old grannies with mid/long barrel 45 revolvers. The "techies" with Sigs or Glocks with scopes, laser sites, suppresors and extended clips. As well as the rest with just a stuby revolver or a 22 pistol.

And just think, combining that with cars, today's pycho drivers and rush hour.

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quote:

You'd have Jhon Who fanatics carying twin Beretta 92s, Macho men and old grannies carrying Desert Eagles, war vets with their colt 1911s, Dirty Hary wannabes and other old grannies with mid/long barrel 45 revolvers. The "techies" with Sigs or Glocks with scopes, laser sites, suppresors and extended clips. As well as the rest with just a stuby revolver or a 22 pistol.


And just think... in most of the United States all of that is perfectly legal. Hundreds of thousands of Americans legally carry hand guns every day and guess what? Most of the time you'd never know.

In the United States guns are used to prevent crime vastly more than they're used to perpatrate it. In the majority of cases where guns are used to stop a crime in progress a shot is never fired. The mere fact that a criminal's intended victim was not willing to be victimized is usually enough to send the perp packing. Criminals prefer to prey on the weak.

And guess what else? These armed citizens own cars and have to drive in traffic everyday just like the rest of the population. I've yet to see a gun fight erupt over traffic conditions, yet, have you??

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I have to go with Litvyak on this one; nothing is preventing most people from owning a gun, so your scenario is valid.

Anyway, I donÔÇÖt think there are many old grannies who could handle a Desert Eagle, and techies have better things to spend there money on then scopes and laser sights.

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I just read all of the articles on that site. Talk about a bunch of liberal **. Their main argument is that he didnt have a right to kill the kid, and the kid shouldn't have been killed. Well, the kid wouldn't have been killed if he didn't invade the guy's house. Whose fault is it? THE STUPID KID'S! Also, didn't Locke establish property rights awhile ago, and most law is based on those rights? What is British law based on? "Lets hope everyone is nice"?!?

Read all of those links about the case on the website that's linked to above. It makes me want to cry because of how stupid some people can be. The guy felt like he was in danger in his OWN HOME, he took a gun and shot it at the threats, and one got killed. The argument i've been hearing from those news stories is "theft isn't a justification for killing someone", but again, what are you supposed to do, ask "Are you planning on stealing something, or do you have a gun and are going to kill me?" If I was the burglar, i'd take that opportunity to pull out a gun if I had one and shot the guy.

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Epsilon 5, that song should be titled 'Don't take your guns into the bar'. Alcohol and guns just don't mix. Granted most people I know who carry will drink socially while carrying (socially I define as one beer an hour or less), none of them would even think of handling firearms drunk. Responsable firearms ownership requires maintaining clear judgement, which obviously the cowboy was lacking if he decided to draw his weapon because somebody was laughing at him.

quote:

And that, darling, is called Darwinism.


I like Dragon Lady more and more every day

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