Kalshion Posted December 4, 2002 Author Report Posted December 4, 2002 I guess I am a little paranoid at time For that list not to be done, it has to be preatty long.. Im really looking forward to seeing it
Epsilon 5 Posted December 4, 2002 Report Posted December 4, 2002 Ok, I tried to remember as many details as I could (and I probably missed alot), but here is a pretty large list of features (and how they are used) for BCO, EnB and Jumpgate. I tried to stay as impartial as I could. I am much expecting BCO, and I have very good knowledge of Jumpgate, the 2 only real competitors. And I'll repeat a point : it's mostly about space. BCO does it all. It makes it best overall (unless the game gets programmed really bad, but I will not think that way ), but the file shows mostly aspects about the space environment. Note that I have no mention of graphics. Graphics are either good or decent in all, and I believe it doesn't matter. But anyhow, JG would lose, since both BCO and ENB will look/look better. I also skipped the fact that BCO is still far off. oh, and ... FLAME AWAY! color> [ 12-04-2002, 12:20 AM: Message edited by: Epsilon 5 ]
Raven Posted December 4, 2002 Report Posted December 4, 2002 Flame away eh? When exactly was the last time anyone got flamed on this forum? I don't know enough about E&B or Jumpgate to have much of an opinion, but why in the name of all that's unholy is cool above great and great above excellent? I mean, shouldn't excellent be above great, and great above cool? [ 12-04-2002, 04:17 AM: Message edited by: Dragon Lady ]
Supreme Cmdr Posted December 4, 2002 Report Posted December 4, 2002 Well, the table is slanted and makes no sense. Probably not even worth debating, but here are some comments of how ludicrous some of the points are. btw, these notes I'm making are all from BCM GALAXY SIZE: There is NO way in hell that JG even has ANY galaxy that is even close to the size of the BC galaxy. In comparision, the BC galaxy is HUGE compared to JG's LARGE.GALAXY ASPECTS: The second galaxy coming doesn't cut it, does it? BCG has a second galaxy linked to the current one. So how come that was not mentioned, since BCO is essentially BCG - and this is, in fact, mentioned in the FAQ? And very few reliable backdoors? wtf does that mean anyway? Who asked anyone to use fluxfields? And even without fluxfields, how can anyone say that the BC galaxy has only one main travelway. Besides, what does that mean anyway?METHODS USED TO HIDE: Newsflash! you can (a) stay out of radar range ( put your radar in passive mode to hide © the radar range on planets is nowhere near vast - thats just rubbish. In fact, its based on altitude, speed, target size etc etc. A much more complex system than JGAVAILABILITY OF VESSELS: Rubbish. Read the BCO FAQ.AVAILABILITY OF SYSTEMS: Rubbish. Read the BCO FAQ.PvP ASPECTS LIMITATIONS: Rubbish. Read the BCO FAQ.RESULT OF DEATH: Rubbish. Read the BCO FAQ.DOCKING METHOD: Color me baffled, but uhm, how come this is not colored as NORMAL? What does docking in a port add to the game? If we're giving points for this, might as well give points for the 200+ or so other features that JG lacks.TRAINING SYSTEM: OK, this one baffled me. Can someone read this and tell me which part of my brain is frozen please?MONTHLY COST: heh, I think the farther down you go on the table, the worse it gets. OK, so JG gets a +1 because its fee is $9.99 and BCO has no set fee yet? LOL!!!SOFTWARE ACQUISITION METHOD: Two boxed versions? huh?SECTOR SIZES: Rubbish. Try it. Just the known sector size alone (as seen in Tacops) is about the size of several JG sectors lined up edge to edge.The table was informative but a tad slanted and only because E5 did it in a hurry and without actually researching the BC items. And thats probably because he plays JG more than he plays BC.
Fractux Posted December 4, 2002 Report Posted December 4, 2002 *DELETED* Next time, stick to the topic. If you want to cover BCM tech support, post in one of the tech support threads. [ 12-04-2002, 01:45 PM: Message edited by: Supreme Cmdr ]
Fractux Posted December 4, 2002 Report Posted December 4, 2002 quote:Originally posted by Fractux: *DELETED* Next time, stick to the topic. If you want to cover BCM tech support, post in one of the tech support threads. Anyways, I'll post my edited version, taking out the tech stuff, so others can read what I have to say. ---- edited post: All I'm going to add is this. I agree that E&B is very limited in comparison to BCM. However, I play the game regularly and I'll tell you what keeps me interested. And from a previous post I made where I aid it was getting boring, my recent dealings in game have shown me what makes E&B fun. Yes, the entire game model in nothing new, different factions, trading, missions. The fact is that E&B has a very good system of getting people to work and play together in groups, not only in everyday play, but also in forming the large organizations [referring to guilds]. E&B has a really good system for getting people to play together, to cooperate and keep them interested not only in the game itself, but in the in game community. The game is NO FUN AT ALL IF YOU PLAY SOLO. By your self, this game offers nothing spectacular. Combat isn't all that intense (though is not as easy as point and click. You do have to manage your resources and skills) and the trading and mission system is nothing new. Now that I've gotten back into the guild I was in, I finally have people to talk with while I warp. Some people dock E&B for the warp times, but in fact, it gives you time to chat with other players, make posts on the market channel and plan groups. OK, I'll cut it short so I don't ramble. E&B's strength is in its push to get people to group together and cooperate. This is where it shines. Outside of this fact, E&B doesn't have much more to offer. All I can say is while I wish it could have more to offer, the game is very stable and I never have any problems with it. It may be a simple model but everything pretty much works and works well. E&B, for me, allows me to keep my character all the time, which is why I have kept playing it. If I could keep my character in BCM going I wouldn't be playing any other game. Cheers! ---- There, spared everyone the technical problems. Cheers! [ 12-04-2002, 02:00 PM: Message edited by: Fractux ]
Fractux Posted December 4, 2002 Report Posted December 4, 2002 Oh yeah, I'm not trying to strike up an E&B defense here.. heh... but Epslon 5, there's just a lot of inaccurate stuff in your tables about E&B, and somewhat bias towards JG with your points system.. heh... A few minor things : As far as systems availability goes, you can only use items at certain skill levels, but you can purchase them at any level, and purchase them from other players. And you get special items from completing missions. Like, got a special sheild that you can't buy for completing missions. "You could run out of ammo but with lasers you have unlimited fight" - well you can't, you have reactor energy as well. Trust me, the reactors can't recharge fast enough for you to keep using your lasers if you are decked out with them. Live events - they plan events for people all the ime. They have in game events to train people, like they just had one about the manufacting skill, and they have ones coming up about explaining the exprience point system to new players. They also had space market days that let you go to specific areas that they told traders to go to to sell a certain item. Anyways, I still have yet to play JG in a while. So i can't comment on it. As far as BCO goes, well it ain't ready so I don't know Cheers!
Epsilon 5 Posted December 4, 2002 Report Posted December 4, 2002 quote:Well, the table is slanted and makes no sense. Probably not even worth debating, but here are some comments of how ludicrous some of the points are.I was expecting that quote:GALAXY SIZE: There is NO way in hell that JG even has ANY galaxy that is even close to the size of the BC galaxy. In comparision, the BC galaxy is HUGE compared to JG's LARGE.Alright, you got this one. JG might be large, but BC is even larger. quote:BCG has a second galaxy linked to the current one. So how come that was not mentioned, since BCO is essentially BCG - and this is, in fact, mentioned in the FAQ?I forgot that one. I wrote it was on a remember basis quote:And very few reliable backdoors? wtf does that mean anyway? Who asked anyone to use fluxfields? And even without fluxfields, how can anyone say that the BC galaxy has only one main travelway. Besides, what does that mean anyway?Backdoors : having more than 1 way to go kill your enemies. Currently, gammulans have to go throught valkerie, mandorian, kandorian, credian, zelon space and several terran outposts to get to earth, without taking a chance of being thrown in a black hole or using the unsure flux fields. quote:Newsflash! you can (a) stay out of radar range ( put your radar in passive mode to hide © the radar range on planets is nowhere near vast - thats just rubbish. In fact, its based on altitude, speed, target size etc etc. A much more complex system than JGSure, but what about space? I wrote that it'S about space mainly. quote:AVAILABILITY OF VESSELS: Rubbish. Read the BCO FAQ.No mention on how you obtain vessels, the restrictions about it, and / or preresquites. quote:AVAILABILITY OF SYSTEMS: Rubbish. Read the BCO FAQ.Nothing about it. quote:PvP ASPECTS LIMITATIONS: Rubbish. Read the BCO FAQ.The information is very limited. I added what I was able to find. quote:RESULT OF DEATH: Rubbish. Read the BCO FAQ.Ok, changed it, but the fact that you might lose your player after a while STILL makes it -1. If I worked for months on a player, and die a few times, only to be told "game over" (or basically that), I will be VERY frustrated. quote:What does docking in a port add to the game?Oh, but that adds alot to the game! you must manoeuver around the station (not always easy with heavy tows), line up with the docking port, and fly at no faster than 100. And when there's combat around the station, you can't dock, becasue you ould get shot at, unless you learn to dock under fire, quickly, commonly known as speed-docking 100 speed is slow, compared to the 450 fighters can do. In the BC games, if ever you are in a fight around a station you can simply target it and hit the key ... quick escape. And EnB features a simple (optional)docking animation. quote:TRAINING SYSTEM: OK, this one baffled me. Can someone read this and tell me which part of my brain is frozen please?I define training as playing, learning the game, safely (or almost). There's little beyond the offline module mentionned about BCO. In jumpgate, the simulator is a place most PVPer can go train each other without any worries. Most pvpers pass about an hour a day in the sim dueling. quote:OK, so JG gets a +1 because its fee is $9.99 and BCO has no set fee yet? LOL!!!Ok .. that one was .. err .. I added a number cos I compared EnB and Jumpgate ... but I,ll remove any advantage becasue it makes it unfair. quote:SOFTWARE ACQUISITION METHOD: Two boxed versions? huh?That's what the FAQ says. quote: Q. HOW WILL IT BE DISTRIBUTED? A. There will be two distribution models depending on release territory and targeted marketing Boxed product and printed manual available at retail with a month of free play A CD-ROM only product with online manuals in HTML or MS Word format Ok, not 2 boxed version, but both you must buy. quote:SECTOR SIZES: Rubbish. Try it. Just the known sector size alone (as seen in Tacops) is about the size of several JG sectors lined up edge to edgeYes, the sheer sizes are bigger, but there's little between each area you can go. Not even clutter (i.e. asteroids). And I measured the sizes in time, since battlecruiser has an hyperdrive, and JG doesn't. and you can't fly in the void in BC (impulse is far too slow to ever realise you moved) quote:The table was informative but a tad slanted and only because E5 did it in a hurry and without actually researching the BC items.No, I did research. I tried to remember all I could and I always had the BCO faq opened. quote:probably because he plays JG more than he plays BC.Correct. [ 12-04-2002, 02:58 PM: Message edited by: Epsilon 5 ]
Epsilon 5 Posted December 4, 2002 Report Posted December 4, 2002 quote:quote: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- AVAILABILITY OF VESSELS: Rubbish. Read the BCO FAQ. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- No mention on how you obtain vessels, the restrictions about it, and / or preresquites. Oh, I forgot. you mentionned about BCM mp that you get the vessels on a first-come, first served basis. But I doubt this method will stay for BCO (BF1942 anyone?)
Kalshion Posted December 4, 2002 Author Report Posted December 4, 2002 quote:Originally posted by Fractux: "You could run out of ammo but with lasers you have unlimited fight" - well you can't, you have reactor energy as well. Trust me, the reactors can't recharge fast enough for you to keep using your lasers if you are decked out with them. Cheers!Rubbish You can have an unlimited fight. I should know I play JG as well When ever I get into a fight I always lower my thrust power to 40-50% and when at that level I can fire my lasers continuingly =) makes it for a preatty light show to. btw EnB Costs $69.99 (for one year) Jumpgate costs $19.99 (every 2 months I beleave)
Epsilon 5 Posted December 4, 2002 Report Posted December 4, 2002 quote: "You could run out of ammo but with lasers you have unlimited fight" - well you can't, you have reactor energy as well. Trust me, the reactors can't recharge fast enough for you to keep using your lasers if you are decked out with them. But the reactor WILL recharge - that's my point. I'm talking about how long you can go around without needing a RRR (repair, reload and refuel), whether you fight or not. In the BC games you have fuel / battery charge. In the 2 others it's unlimited. I changed a few things about EnB considering what you said. quote:EnB Costs $69.99 (for one year) Jumpgate costs $19.99 (every 2 months I beleave)JG is 9.95us a month. EnB might look cheaper, but that's a prepaid year, not the real monthly cost, although it might end up being better afterall, if you like the game.
Fractux Posted December 5, 2002 Report Posted December 5, 2002 quote:Originally posted by Kalshion: quote:Originally posted by Fractux: "You could run out of ammo but with lasers you have unlimited fight" - well you can't, you have reactor energy as well. Trust me, the reactors can't recharge fast enough for you to keep using your lasers if you are decked out with them. Cheers!Rubbish You can have an unlimited fight. I should know I play JG as well When ever I get into a fight I always lower my thrust power to 40-50% and when at that level I can fire my lasers continuingly =) makes it for a preatty light show to. btw EnB Costs $69.99 (for one year) Jumpgate costs $19.99 (every 2 months I beleave)Umm, I was talking about E&B not JG.
Supreme Cmdr Posted December 5, 2002 Report Posted December 5, 2002 quote:Originally posted by Epsilon 5: Oh, I forgot. you mentionned about BCM mp that you get the vessels on a first-come, first served basis. But I doubt this method will stay for BCO (BF1942 anyone?)1. Why would it not stay? Stations/bases don't have unlimited resources in my MMOG environment. 2. Since when was craft/vehicle availability a feature pioneered by BF1942? Do you have ANY idea how many (e.g. Tribes, back in 1998) games have come out in which vehicles are in limited supply etc
Supreme Cmdr Posted December 5, 2002 Report Posted December 5, 2002 quote:Originally posted by Epsilon 5: Alright, you got this one. JG might be large, but BC is even larger.one quote:I forgot that one. I wrote it was on a remember basistwo quote:Backdoors : having more than 1 way to go kill your enemies. Currently, gammulans have to go throught valkerie, mandorian, kandorian, credian, zelon space and several terran outposts to get to earth, without taking a chance of being thrown in a black hole or using the unsure flux fields.1. Rubbish, most have an HSD unit 2. The design of a galaxy should have very little relevance to how the game is run. If I wanted to make my galaxy one spider web, I'd stick jump anomalies and do that. Using the ludicrous backdoor feature to compare the galaxies of two games, is like comparing the language it was developed in e.g. C++ as opposed to C++ The design of the galaxy doesn't - in a any shape of form - impede how the game is played. It was designed with strategy in mind. three quote:Sure, but what about space? I wrote that it'S about space mainly.Same as space. Have you ever seen a station or ship attack you outside of their radar parameters? EVERY entity in the game has max/min radar parameters (defined in the scripts included with GBS). The only difference in space is that the ranges are longer (due to the size of the region) and the altitude is not taken into account since there is no concept of 'ground' four quote:No mention on how you obtain vessels, the restrictions about it, and / or preresquites.Read it again. There are no less than three questions in there and in the battlecruiser.net FAQ dealing with this topic five quote:Nothing about it.Read it again. Unless we're talking about two different things. six quote:The information is very limited. I added what I was able to find.Rubbish. Read it again seven quote:Ok, changed it, but the fact that you might lose your player after a while STILL makes it -1. If I worked for months on a player, and die a few times, only to be told "game over" (or basically that), I will be VERY frustrated.Rubbish. There is no perma-death in BCO. If you keep dying and keep losing stuff etc, it will be up to you to start a new character. eight quote:Oh, but that adds alot to the game! you must manoeuver around the station (not always easy with heavy tows), line up with the docking port, and fly at no faster than 100. And when there's combat around the station, you can't dock, becasue you ould get shot at, unless you learn to dock under fire, quickly, commonly known as speed-docking 100 speed is slow, compared to the 450 fighters can do. In the BC games, if ever you are in a fight around a station you can simply target it and hit the key ... quick escape. And EnB features a simple (optional)docking animation.Rubbish. Then you should add the 250+ features that BCO has that JG doesn't have - and then justify each one. btw, you can't dock with a station with hostiles around. nine quote:I define training as playing, learning the game, safely (or almost). There's little beyond the offline module mentionned about BCO. In jumpgate, the simulator is a place most PVPer can go train each other without any worries. Most pvpers pass about an hour a day in the sim dueling.Rubbish. And how is this different from training offline? Training is training. Whether you do it offline or online in a simulator. ten quote:Ok .. that one was .. err .. I added a number cos I compared EnB and Jumpgate ... but I,ll remove any advantage becasue it makes it unfair.eleven quote:Ok, not 2 boxed version, but both you must buy.No. You buy only ONE type. You have a choice. The same way you have a choice with BCM if you bought it from BMT Micro. Either boxed or shrink-wrapped. twelve quote:Yes, the sheer sizes are bigger, but there's little between each area you can go. Not even clutter (i.e. asteroids). And I measured the sizes in time, since battlecruiser has an hyperdrive, and JG doesn't. and you can't fly in the void in BC (impulse is far too slow to ever realise you moved)Rubbish 1. Having places to go within a sector, has NOTHING to do with the size of the sector. And SIZE being the criteria you used for this comparison, makes your point, moot. 2. You don't have to use the HD in BC to measure the distance if JG doesn't have a HD. Thats just foolish. Who said you should use the HD? Since when could you NOT go from place to place without using HD? With that in mind, what prevented you from checking the sector ranges in real-time as you did with JG? Nothing. thirteen quote:Correctfourteen [ 12-05-2002, 09:13 AM: Message edited by: Supreme Cmdr ]
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