Grizzle

I think it's a gross exaggeration. Sure there were some problems brought on by a few "unsavory" elements, but BY FAR the majority of folks did the right thing and DID help others out. I almost hate to say it, but I surfed the three major cable news networks and FOX tended to concentrate on the negative aspects and criminal acts a lot more than the other networks. I'm not surprised at his take on the whole situation given the fact he states he and his wife watched FOX news. As for the welfare aspect, I agree it's become a dismal failure and think Remo has the right idea about how to solve the problem. Model it after unemployment benefits and add some job training. Limits need to be placed on benefits as well, say 6 months to a year then they're on their own to take the skills they learn in job training and make a living for themselves.

quote:Originally posted by $iLk: That's kind of a small hard drive for video... That's what burners are for!

if you just want a MAC to do that kinda stuff, why not this one?

quote:Originally posted by Supreme Cmdr: Did you order the new manual and keyboard sheet? Thought I'd kick the tires a bit first. Playing your games is like riding a bike. But now that you mention it, I think I will for the collectors value of it. (and to help you recoup for printing them in the first place )

quote:Originally posted by Supreme Cmdr: Obviously not impatient enough or you'd have ordered it by now. LOL, yeah, but I didn't know how difficult getting all the digital releases sorted out would be, you've made that clear. Got several emails from BMT already, looks like they were an excellent, reliable choice for the supplier. Can't wait for it to get here!

Okie Doke, got tired of waiting for the DRM so I just placed an order with BMT. Here's hoping it gets here soon! (I'm the impatient sort)

Jag, I don't need any hints, thank you. This entire argument is ridiculous and has devolved into something other than what I think Jamotto was attempting to present with the original post. It certainly wasn't about welfare, which I agree hasn't been successful. On this too we agree, poverty always has and always will exist, which is why I won't even bother to pitch in my useless two cents on the subject. Now maybe you'll understand why I said what I said.

quote:Originally posted by Teknocack Prime: Soback, in every revolution, there is one man with a vision. You have that vision. Now, hone your skills so that you may actually bring it to pass. Soback a visionary? Now I've heard it all! Rationalizing poverty is like explaining why water is wet.

Very sorry to hear that Jag. As an animal lover and having experienced a few losses myself I offer my sincerest condolences. Dogs are truly the best companions one could ask for. Take heart in knowing she loved you as much as you loved her.

quote:Originally posted by LostInSpace: quote:Originally posted by Prez: I'm confused Race. You lament the discussion of anything beyond helping and in THE SAME SENTENCE take an obvious cheap shot at Bush. Mind-boggling. Can anyone have a reasonable discussion anymore without senseless personal attacks? Don't forget Prez that this is a prime opportunity for the liberals and democrats to beat the war drums and to make the conservatives look as bad as they can get away with for the next upcomming presidential elections and other elections as well. A shame really and they call us vultures. Tit-for-Tat LIS. I sure hope we have a viable third party in the next election cycle.

It appears the oil profits tend to go more towards shareholders and mergers/aquisitions at this point. Not a lot being reinvested towards producing more oil/refined products. An excerpt from this this report: quote: Conclusion Since oil price increases began in 2004, the oil industry has earned increased profits. These profits might have resulted from other factors in addition to the increased price of oil. A key factor in increased profitability might be the tightness in the U.S. gasoline market, a factor related to the lack of enough refinery capacity to meet U.S. demand for petroleum products. If oil and petroleum product prices are to decrease, supply will likely have to increase relative to demand. Expanded supply results from investment in the various stages of the oil industry production process, from exploration and development of new oil fields to increased refinery capacity. If the underlying economic parameters and the regulatory environment are not encouraging, investment might not be undertaken. Historically volatile prices and profit levels coupled with a tight regulatory environment contribute to industry uncertainty. Other legitimate uses for earned profits include paying higher dividends and retiring outstanding shares, acquiring assets through merger and acquisition, and investing in new product areas. These uses of profit may benefit shareholders and strategically position the firm in the global market, but they do less to expand the supply of oil and products on the market and thereby reduce prices for consumers. As a result of significant time lags that tend to occur in the oil industry, it may be too soon to know whether or not investments in the industry, if taken, will result in the increased supply of oil and petroleum products needed to reduce prices and consumersÔÇÖ costs. The down side to all of these high prices is (as Soback pointed out somewhere in his voluminous post) the market has proven it will bear $2 to $2.50 a gallon without much trouble, don't expect the prices to drop below the $2 mark ever again. Time to start crackin' on alternative energy sources.

Agreed Prez. But it is also human nature. We elect leaders so we can praise them when they make our lives better and scold them when they don't. We pay taxes so our government can protect us and provide a livable infrastructure, so it only makes sense they get beat upon when they don't do their job.

quote: Posted by Prez EVERY SINGLE THING Bush does or does not do he is absolutely creamed for. The man can do NOTHING right, apparently. I think some people here would have a higher opinion of the anti-Christ. [Roll Eyes] Politics as usual Prez. Have you forgotten Clinton too? Might as well add Bush Sr., Reagan, Carter, Ford, Nixon etc...

Where's Jag?

quote:Originally posted by $iLk: Horsecrap. The Democrats want to give kickbacks as much if not more than the Republicans. Both parties suck. I don't know which I hate more; The DNC, the GOP, or the Media. Democrats I think are worse by the slimmest of margins because instead of trying to screw everyone over - they wanna screw over the majority of Americans to buy votes from special interests. I didn't say one was better than the other. My point is that the bills Dem's try to pass are an attempt to benefit all citizens (pork included) while the ones Rep's try pass attempt to benefit business (also pork included). They are one and the same operating under different pretense. I agree with you $ilk I've been sick of the two party system for some time now, neither one is immune to the problems inherent to politics and tax money. I'm not too optimistic though, greed and power seems to trump everything nowadays. if you ever decide to form a revolution, give me a call.

The difference being, Democrats want everyone to have a piece of the pie, Republicans want to eat it all themselves.

quote:Originally posted by Race Bannon IV: This is bad. If we have a border policy why are locals forced to enforce it? Sadly because there is no money to be made. If policing our borders was a profit venture politicians and big business would be all over it like white on rice. quote:If we cant (or wont) enforce the policy why are we wasting time and resources for window dressing? So the Washington bureaucrats can say they've done *something* quote:Isnt this a Homeland Security issue? Yes, but we're too busy policing Iraq to worry about our own security. Once again, there's no money in it.

quote:Originally posted by Prez: quote:Not sure where you are going with this, but you just described the President's role as if this were a Totalitarian society. He is saying that those of your political persuasion need to understand that the majority of voting Americans did not agree with you when it counted, i.e. election day. He was elected by a clear majority of the people, now he is doing his job as he sees fit. My political persuasion?? What would that be Prez? I have fewer issues with Bush than I do with the overall direction this country is taking. While Bush may be somewhat responsible for that direction, it is mostly in the hands of congress. I'm no Bush hater, more of a US policy dissenter. I'm actually much more of a centrist even if I don't come across as such. Last time I checked, the office of the President wasn't about mandate, it's about service to the country.

quote:Originally posted by Prez: quote: The point about PNAC is not so much one of mass conspiracy but one that should certainly arouse suspicion in just about anyone's mind. I am not really a guy pre-disposed to suspicion, but if the PNAC charter makes you uncomfortable, that's one thing. To say unequivocally that it is what is driving what is going on in Iraq is simply wild conjecture, and another thing entirely. Like I have said before, the PNAC ideals are not all that radical to me really. Nowhere in there is a provision for forceful implementation, however. If the PNAC ideals were being used as the cornerstone for expansion through agression, I would certainly rail against it. But There is nothing to indicate whatsoever that this is what is going on. Read more than the charter Prez. There are MANY documents dealing specifically with Iraq and most of them are dated well before 9/11.

quote:Originally posted by Jaguar: First off, Bush was elected to a second term, if he decides to do what he wants to do, then he has EVERY right to do so. He is the PRESIDENT, and got more votes then Clinton EVER got, he got his mandate, get over it.... Not sure where you are going with this, but you just described the President's role as if this were a Totalitarian society. In any event, sure Bush can do what he wants, but shouldn't we question his choice of cabinet members when they so obviously fall on the side of questionable political motivation?

quote:Originally posted by Prez: Nazi agression was pure, unprovoked agression, for starters....and Iraq provoked us how? Come on Prez, $ilk is making many many valid arguments and you just aren't getting it. The Bush cronies who just so happen to be members of PNAC, an organization that just so happens to have presented papers on invading Iraq long before 9/11, have quite obviously played a LARGE role in turning Osama Bin Ladens attack on the US into a reason for ousting Saddam by propagandizing the "terrorist threat". Your steadfast refusal to give any creedance to $ilks arguments is just making you look foolish.

The point about PNAC is not so much one of mass conspiracy but one that should certainly arouse suspicion in just about anyone's mind. To dismiss it out of hand as meaningless is simply disingenuous. The danger presented with PNAC and it's members being in positions of power and occupying the right hand seat of the President is one of predisposition. Check their site under the 1997 - 2000 link and just look at how much of it deals with invading Iraq and destroying Saddam. Does it leave you with any doubt that some of Bush's advisors were predisposed to the idea YEARS before 9/11?? In short, these guys would have supported it no matter what. WMD's no WMD's it did not matter to them, and you can take that to the bank. It's not much of a stretch to imagine that these guys actually encouraged it. For Prez and Jag to poo-poo the possibility is just plain willful ignorance. To raise the point that it's even more ridiculous just because it's posted on a public site is nonsense and does not change the facts PNAC so unabashedly advance with documents dated in 1998 titled "How to Attack Iraq" (and pretty much everything else on their site.) Do any of these names ring a bell? Richard L. Armitage William J. Bennett John Bolton Richard Perle Donald Rumsfeld Paul Wolfowitz Dick Cheney Jeb Bush If reading the information on their site isn't enough to raise questions in your minds then you guys really need a reality check.

It's all there in black and white. You guys mean to tell me that the stated goals of PNAC , the memo they issued to Clinton regarding Iraq and regime change and the fact that Bush's cabinet is stacked with their members is totally coincidental? I'd laugh too if you guys weren't so obviously thick headed and laughing at the disadvantaged is rude. Regardless, Jag insists that Iraq is a glowing success and while there may yet be some good to come of it, the whole thing could have been executed WAY more effectively. It's more of a mess than a success at this point. There's no conspiracy theorists here, just folks capable of looking at all the evidence and drawing some easy and obvious conclusions. Maybe you two should loosen the ties on that flag wrapped around your head get some blood flowing and see the situation from both sides. Better yet, stop buying those "support our troops" car magnets, hop on a plane and go fight yourselves it should be a cakewalk the way you see it.

Amen $ilk. Don't let Jag's blind patriotism get to you. You have a much clearer understanding of what's happening than most. From PNAC to justification of the War to the reasons our men and women wish to return, you've pretty much nailed it. Keep it up!

...nevermind