Posts posted by Takvah
ROFLMAO. Check the battlegrounds, its not looking good for your boy. Ahead is ahead.
Jaguar you are INSANE. We are going to take on Syria and Iran (effectively by ourselves because if Israel gets involved it won't be two countries against us it will be twelve) and you think that the military that is depleted and exhausted after (going on three) years of deployment (Afghanistan and Iraq) is prepared for that?
My friend I want to see YOU go over there and fight that war. Get on your old uniform, pick up your old rifle and GO. I for one do not want to see the Middle East destabilized beyond the level we have already caused.
The fact is that we could likely defeat the Iranians and the Syrians but we would never hold their land, we would have to basically exterminate them or hit and run. We are not going to instill democracy through conquest and I find it amazingly shortsighted that you believe the people of the middle east who already feel oppressed by the West (justified or not) are going to sit still for that.
Did I see this plan coming together? No. I don't even think that Bush saw this kind of plan coming together. This is a political nightmare that will be the burden of all Americans. Bush needs war to survive and that's just sick. Some uniter there eh?
Thank goodness the wheels are falling off the Republican cart. This guy is gone and I think it's a landslide, unless he orchestrates a terrorist attack that trumps 9/11.
Oh and your missile defense. IT DOESN'T BLOODY WORK. You point me to the data that says it does.
You guys must be so proud. God help us all this lunatic Bush has totally brought this on us all. If you live by the sword you die by the sword. NOW, Iran's nuclear (weapons I won't say this is for POWER other than military power) plant should be attacked and we KNEW about it before Iraq... but what do we do? We go to Iraq, WHERE THERE WERE NO NUKES AND WHERE THERE WERE NO POWER PLANTS (Israel took care of that for us).
I do think it is funny however that Iran is now using Bush's philosophy against him in their own crazy way. My God people, even Iran knows if it gets ONE NUKE, we won't attack them. How do they know this... they know because of North Korea. SO PROLIFERATION IS LIKE CANCER and arms control is a JOKE. Meanwhile your boy is deploying a missile shield that DOESN'T EVEN WORK! I feel so much safer.
So let me get this straight. Americans were involved in cleaning up a major dumping of toxic chemicals into rivers around Baghdad? So, let me see, we have a President that never mentioned that. An Administration that never mentioned it. The Pentagon that never mentioned it. Yet they are under fire (not nearly enough) for using depleted uranium all over Iraq and causing a major environmental mess there that is years from being truly realized.
OK this is some good stuff. Honestly, I wish it was truth. I wish I as an American could stand up and say, "see he had them you German bastards," or "we likely saved your ass again France," but I can't. Instead I have to sit here and realize that MY PRESIDENT, the guy I voted for... lied and lied and lied.
I loved getting my call from the Republicans tonight. "Sir, would you say that you approve or disapprove of the way that President Bush is directing this nation."
"I highly disapprove."
"Thank you and have a blessed evening sir."
A BLESSED EVENING?! This is the kind of stuff about my party that is driving me nuts. Now, I'm sure Jeb is scrambling to get me on a felons list. There will be hell to pay if I am denied my right as an American to vote. My vote counts, unlike some of you guys that are in states where you'll be practicing the exercise but watching Kerry claim victory. *snickers*
I can keep it on a one track conversation LIS. George Will and you through the quoting of the man are saying that Kerry speaks from both sides of his mouth. IMAGINE THAT, a politician being political. OH MY GOD.
I'm not going to argue it.
Now you on the other hand say that Bush is not a liar. SO, why don't you focus in on what I said and tell me how the man is NOT a liar. I'm not going to defend Kerry's lack of cohesion in his statements. However, I am not going to tolerate Bush's whacko agenda just because I have an R after my name either. Kerry being a politician will NEVER be as scary to me as Bush being a cowboy and instigating war against a country we had no business invading.
Bush has also been being a politician lately, suddenly changing his stance on the importation of drugs and that business about considering a consumption/flat tax. The difference is 1000 Americans are dead and 150,000 others are slow roasting in the Iraqi desert because of a crazy scheme to rob the treasury and finish dad's war.
Let me see what you've said.
Every military man of any note that has any class has dismissed the attacks of the swift boat vets as abhorant. Thanks, I agree.
Kerry won't sign a form 180. I did a search about the 180 form and whether or not Bush was demanding Kerry sign it. Nope. Do you think that's because he thinks Kerry is hiding something? Do you think that Karl ROVE of all people would just let that SIT THERE? Who is looking for the 180 to be signed? Bush fanatic sites that are looking for any branch to grab hold of as this campaign of George's slowly begins to tank.
The Swift Boat vets are supported by Bush backers. If you think that Rove or some Bush official has not been in touch with these guys you're obviously naive. Bush refuses to do what every military person has requested and condemn these kinds of tactics. Well how can he, his buddies are the ones putting these guys out there. These poor bastards have sold their souls in affidavits that they cannot even stand by. This is the theater of the absurd and this is going to bite Bush and Cheney in the ass.
You say that Kerry is playing into Bush and Cheney's hands. OK. Well that's funny because it looks like Kerry is the one pressing the attacks. He isn't backing off he's giving what he's gotten for 2 weeks now and I just hope he sticks to his guns. Bush and Cheney have a laughable record and I think that if Kerry presses the guard service we'll find that Bush's orders to transfer were never approved.
Anyway... the military elite in this country, Franks, McCain etc., think that these swiftvets are an abomination and now their BS is falling apart. ROFLMAO. Good work Mr. Thurlow, your character assassination is coming home to roost in your own backyard. This is so good that I'm CHEERING!
I'll make this easy for you. What did Bush say that Saddam had that ended up being found or proved? What panned out for this guy? The entire Administration made the rounds promising us all kinds of horrific finds. Where are they? Bush said that Saddam was a threat, explain how. That's all I'm asking. What that Bush said was a justification for war actually proved to be there? I've been asking this question of you to the point of being blue in the face and I get a lot of emotional answers about how he was a threat. WELL I AM ASKING YOU AGAIN. How?
No, I have nothing to say about what George Will says. These are rhetorical questions. If this was a court of law he would have been sanctioned for leading the witness. He is ANSWERING every question he has asked. Get it? Great. It is pointless to answer unless I am debating George Will. Is he here? This is an editorial.
George Bush is not the antichrist he is an unabashed LIAR. When you send a nation to war on lies that pisses me off. He is not a Republican, he spends money without concern for how it will be paid back, he has spread our military thin, he has made soldiers indentured servants (DOD's Stop Loss Rule). He has granted sovereignty to NOBODY. He has destroyed the progress of TIME. What I mean by this is that Iran and Iraq killed off much of their older populace through war. Iran's majority population is 30 and under, they like the jeans and the music and Iran has had trouble maintaining fanaticism in the name of religion. WE HAVE REMINDED THEM WHY THEIR PARENTS HATED US. Our President is an imbecile. If we wanted Saddam dead we could have killed him, without war. He was contained. NO WMDs, nothing... just a bunch of EXCUSES and you guys buy it.
HOW MANY TIMES DO I HAVE TO SAY IT. It isn't just ABB (although I have no choices beyond Kerry or Bush) it is about REMOVING A DANGEROUS AND RECKLESS INDIVIDUAL FROM THE PRESIDENCY. It is about making the checks and balances of government relevant again. Lord knows that Kerry will be checked by this Republican Congress and for this I will be HAPPY.
Hope this clears it all up for you.
How would George Bush answer these charges gents? Fact is HE WOULDN'T BECAUSE HE COULDN'T. How would you guys answer them? The floor is yours.
Jaguar, smack him around too? Who the hell did you smack around? I would really like to know. I really have to say that I don't find you to be very bright but taking that tone, like you somehow bested me and therefor I just backed off is BS. I just want to discuss the facts. Frankly, the threats are what always ticks me off about you. That kind of tone says a lot about your ability to wage proper debate.
As for Kerry's service. I was right, Kerry is going on the offensive today. Frankly, I can't wait to see how this plays out. Kerry needs to release his 180... WHERE THE HELL ARE BUSH'S COMRADES FROM THE BASE WHERE HE SAYS HE SERVED? WHERE. Did he do any time in WAR. Four MINUTES EVEN? Papers mysteriously disappear and reappear and what do they show... Bush failed to appear for physicals and nobody can substantiate that he was in the guard from 4/72-4/73 (or thereabouts). PERIOD.
Your boy Bush is a fraud. The war President. Who the hell would give himself such a nom de guerre? "Bring it on?" Bush has ducked every fight he's ever been in. Oh wait, he wanted to go toe to toe with his dad when he took his brother out and got him wasted and busted. What a tough guy.
I'm going to try to ignore your smack comment. But I gotta tell you, you're so angry at the world that it says a lot about the quality of your private life. No optimism, no critical thought... just brooding contempt. That's just the facts as you present them my friend. If you want respect then you give what you get (according to you), well Jag implying that you "smacked" me around ain't gonna get you that from me.
[ 08-19-2004, 09:55 AM: Message edited by: Takvah ]
Are you serious? Every rally that Kerry holds there are Republican protestors in the crowd. The last time he called them thugs. Rush was screaming about him using that term for DAYS. Now however, he has nothing to say about the Hitler Youth approach of Bush when it comes to these oaths and whatnot. We didn't see Republican hecklers at the DNC? It was in an arena the protesters were outside in their little cage. Do you think the RNC will be different. THOSE GUYS ARE MAKING THE PEOPLE PROTEST ON THE WEST SIDE HIGHWAY. Ever been to NYC? That's plenty far from the Garden my friend and that's just whacko to do that to dissenters. Let them assemble just make it far from where anybody might see it.
The facts are this... oaths, threatening arrest, etc. etc. I don't see this coming from Kerry's camp. Hmmmmm.
I think Kerry does fine on his war record when he articulates it to the people. I think that the four month BS should be countered vigorously, as well as the Swift Boat crybaby O'Neill who is still bitter about being outdebated by Kerry during the war. Kerry was on Nixon's enemies list, he should be proud of that and O'Neill was the man Nixon used to counter Kerry. O'Neill wasn't up to the task then and he isn't up to the task now.
Bush and Cheney have no military records. Bush served in some capacity though most of it cannot be authenticated by witness testimony. You do not see anybody that Bush served with stepping to the fore. I don't know how ANYBODY can just ignore that... but I guess you don't wonder why that is. I however, do.
Also you are implying that Kerry is behind Bush in the polls as of this moment. I would point you to PollingReport.com where you can get up to date polling data. Bush is currently trailing Kerry if even only marginally in most of these polls (including the FOX News poll). Bush is certainly not proving (at least currently) that he can even be re-elected, most people currently want someone new. For all of the attacks Bush has been launching it seems to be ringing hollow with the people.
We'll keep watching those polls though, I am sure that we will each have our fair share of opportunities to state that either of our candidates is a front runner.
Kerry's war record is going to stand up to the scrutiny it has for going on a year now and that's after some really calculated attacks from the medals incident to this recent Cambodia claim. So far that dog aint huntin'.
Is *bumping* allowed here? If not just say so and I won't do it again.
I guess you just patently ignored this part of the article:
"Five deferments seems incredible to me," said David Curry, a professor at the University of Missouri in St. Louis who has written extensively about the draft, including a 1985 book, "Sunshine Patriots: Punishment and the Vietnam Offender."
"That's a lot of times for the draft board to say O.K.," Mr. Curry said.
I just think that if you are going to pretend to be tough on terror (which their record shows they truly aren't) and you want to say that you have the balls for the job it is funny to see what kind of metal you are actually made of. Was it coincidence that his daughter was timed? I don't think so. What the argument showed is that Cheney CLAWED AND SCRATCHED AND CHEWED his way out of Vietnam. I think it's disgusting and I think it is hypocritical for President Cheney to act like he knows the horror of war and what those kids in Iraq are going through.
I'm a Republican I am for justified war, I still think we have a job left unfinished in Afghanistan and Pakistan as well as in Saudi Arabia. I think a lot of people in this country agree.
*Breaks out a very tiny violin*
Tell it to Oliver Stone buddy. You're done.
I made my offer... beyond that I have nothing else to say to you.
Then call the RNC. That's the REPUBLICAN NATIONAL COMMITTEE and tell them that you have this information. This would be like a WMD in Iraq, they would probably have you speak at the Convention at the end of the month. You'd be a HERO. So I wonder if you'll follow through. My money says, "HELL NO."
Republican National Committee
310 First Street, SE
Washington, DC 20003
Being ever helpful here is the contact info for you man. I can't wait to read about you.
In order that you provide the proof, I will also offer you $500 cash to deliver the goods. I want to see the evidence provided to the public. You deliver me that and I'll have the nads you don't seem to possess and come forward and show the world that Moore ALTERED a videotape to make Cheney appear to say something that he did not. That he went and DUBBED (which is what you implied not superimposed which you called it) a voice track over that tape.
"That being said, it's clear if you where to watch it that what Chaney say's doesn't match his lip movement. It's off by about a 5 seconds, and yes I've done the test by using the equipment at school."
I am so sick of your BS that I am willing to put my MONEY where my mouth is. Now step on up and take your swing or siddown and zip it. Seem fair enough to the rest of you?
[ 08-18-2004, 12:02 PM: Message edited by: Takvah ]
Well, I think now that Dick Cheney has decided to relentlessly attack Kerry on his war record both in Vietnam and now in the way Kerry supported one $87 billion military supplemental while not supporting another, (he supported the one that contained an amendment that would have rolled back tax breaks to the top 1% and also improved healthcare for military personnel... how HEINOUS) it's time to remind people of Dick's glorious record.
Anyway, here we have Dick Cheney attacking and meanwhile he lives in a glass house. He supported Vietnam and he now supports the war in Iraq. Unfortunately when Dick Cheney could have put his blood where his mouth is, he proved that he would throw everything, even his offspiring in front of military service. This is why Dick Cheney isn't only a Chicken Hawk but also a Chicken Sh*t. I'm sorry but this guy should just shut his mouth when it comes to military service. Even G.W. Bush can laugh at this guy and that is saying something.
Cheney and his deferments... and CLINTON was a dodger? ROFLMAO what do you call Cheney then? Sorry Lynne looks like we actually have to get it on... I needs me a baby biotch! OH MY GOD. This guy has NO SHAME.
I was talking about Farenheit 9/11. Bowling for Columbine might serve to say that Moore is capable of skewing facts but if you review articles from 1999 and the context you see that the NRA declared themselves "defiant" in the face of the community's (that had been shattered by gun tragedy) request that they postpone their event. It was cheap I'm not going to deny it. But do you have something relevant to Farenheit and better yet do you guys have official Kerry advertising to match up with the official Bush/RNC stuff that they butchered?
As for Moore again, here is his rebuttal to the Heston footage of the "cold dead hand" thing. It does make sense in a way because when I think of Chuck Heston I think of him either screaming about "Damned dirty apes," or him and "the cold dead hands" nonsense. An image that was very heavily sold to us all to favor the NRA as a tough talking bunch.
Michael Moore's explanation:
As for the clip preceding the Denver speech, when Heston proclaims "from my cold dead hands," this appears as Heston is being introduced in narration. It is Heston's most well-recognized NRA image ÔÇô hoisting the rifle overhead as he makes his proclamation, as he has done at virtually every political appearance on behalf of the NRA (before and since Columbine). I have merely re-broadcast an image supplied to us by a Denver TV station, an image which the NRA has itself crafted for the media, or, as one article put it, "the mantra of dedicated gun owners" which they "wear on T-shirts, stamp it on the outside of envelopes, e-mail it on the Internet and sometimes shout it over the phone.". Are they now embarrassed by this sick, repulsive image and the words that accompany it?
This all said, can we get back to the facts as relate to Bush and Kerry and attack ad accuracy?
LIS you posted while I posted this about Columbine.
With regard to the members of Congress...
There were four members of congress with children in the military only ONE, as was stated in the film had a son fighting in Iraq.
Oh and feel better Jaguar... sick sucks and throat pain really sucks.
I think Im gonna go tear me off a piece. Nighty, night fellas.
[ 08-17-2004, 10:13 PM: Message edited by: Takvah ]
Jaguar can you kindly give me examples from the Moore film where this occured. I am not even about saying that Moore's work isn't politically motivated to prove his point, ofcourse it is. What I want to know is where something like this occured. You didn't see the movie so can you quote me the sources and the footage where the people were taken out of context in the way that Kerry was?
Moveon.org is a private political action committee it is not the DNC. This was an RNC ad Jaguar, these guys are supposed to at least attempt to be truthful in their advertising. I don't see the same kind of blatant misrepresentation coming through official channels on the Dem's side. You can educate me if I'm wrong.
I'm sorry but if the best you can do is "what's good for the goose," I'm gonna have to say I find it lacking.
Maybe somebody else can explain it to this guy. Somebody? Anybody? Bueller? Bueller? Bueller?
Excuses, excuses, excuses. Yeah I'm shaking over here. I'm starting to feel embarrassed for you. And here I was just wanting you to get the credit you deserved for this great find of yours *snickers*. It's a large hill of nothing that you've proved here Kalshion. Cheney never said it, you supposedly could prove it... but what... YOU WON'T? ROFLMAO... I'm supposed to believe that? You're done, I can't debate with someone that has gone out of their way to lie and be evasive. You dug yourself into a huge hole and I think it is fairly apparent that you are merely contented to say prove me a liar instead of saying, "here's my data". It's sad really and it goes to show me exactly the maturity level I'm dealing with. I'm through with making myself look bad by having to engage you in the game anymore.
Thanks. And like I said maybe somebody else can be kind enough to just throw me a bone on this and explain it to you.
Well gentlemen I gave as good as I got and then some. I will continue to keep it on the issues. With the exception of ONE matter.
Kalshion I have never denied facts. Your research was a lie and I still believe it to be completely UNTRUE that there was some kind of doctoring of the videotape. You offered no evidence. You would have had a HUGE scoop one that you could have fed to Drudge and every other media outlet across this country. People would have been doing stories on the kid that proved this.
I frankly don't believe you and I don't believe that you answer people who say "prove your allegations," by telling them, "no you prove I lied". Who has something to prove here? The guy that says he has the data or the guy that says, "I don't believe you?"
So I've had it with your saying that I am unwilling to hear you. I am more than willing to hear you, I just add to that a condition, that you back up what you say.
If we understand one another then that's great. I became more hostile toward you and your defenders when they refused to say, "Just give him the proof," and I think if they truly believed you they would have agreed with me instead of getting hostile and defensive.
Jaguar you want respect, I will respect you in so much as you refrain from calling people morons and idiots. When you started that you set the precedent.
I take great pride in having done a fairly good job of stating my case through factual argument. When it got nasty was when the focus needed to be taken off those facts through a lot of personal attacks on me. I am outnumbered but amazingly I don't believe I'm outgunned. But I agree, I want the people here to see the facts and I will keep pressing the issues and stating the opposition's case. I have to. I have pennance to make for my mistake of four years ago.
Put on your dancing shoes Jag... I'm just getting started.
Drink the Kool Aid and sign the forms. These people call Kerry a coward. At least he doesn't have people exchanging tickets for proof of party affiliation or the signing of "oaths" that you support the President and are voting for him. What if you're undecided? Ooops too bad. Yeah they're stopping the work of Democratic interlopers ROFLMAO. MY GOD what has happened to our country when the President cannot take the heat of his office and the criticism of his people.
Jim Walz said it best, if these are "campaign" events and off limits to the public then Bush and his campaign should be responsible for the cost of security, fuel etc.
What happened to my party? Remember when we were men and when Reagan would heckle back! My GOD GW is just too dumb to do it, he stomps off and curses out his staff when things get hot. Just ask G.W. about Ken Lay. I just don't get why this guy can't get it together to be a man and say what he thinks without handlers doing it for him. And when they aren't doing it for him why is he doing it in front of oath signing friendly crowds that don't ask tough questions?
Here are some links for you:
Bush Backers Only - Cheney in New Mexico and the story of a Vet in Dubuque
Asked about Ken Lay Bush walks out of conference YES I know where this is linked from, it was all over the news for about an hour and you can find it on Yahoo! I just liked the tagline next to the story that says, Is Bush Insane? Sadly, I can't answer a firm NO to that. Here it's in the telegraph too... Bush walks away from Enron questions
And you guys wonder why people refer to him as King George. Is this not the behavior of a monarch or a dictator? Doesn't it kind of freak any of you guys that love freedom and the process out that this kind of thing is going on?
Yes I know, it's just the world that's gone mad... *snickers*
[ 08-17-2004, 09:10 PM: Message edited by: Takvah ]
Here is a story from the Hardball site about the use of an Interview Matthews had with John Kerry and how the RNC butchered it.
This is so absolutely DISGUSTING that I hope that all of you fact finding Republicans will SCREAM bloody murder that these are the tactics being employed by the RNC. President Bush has been quoting this for months and now it's time for the piper to be paid.
RNC PERVERTS THE WORDS OF KERRY.
How did an attack on the Presidents M.O. get skewed into such a perverted untruth? Is this what it's all come to? The best part is the end where Matthews says, "I think the president ought to be shown this tape so he knows what heÔÇÿs talking about, instead of having it fed to him by somebody who doesnÔÇÿt show them full sentence.ÔÇØ
In asking that you not be attacked, you attack which is humorous. Especially given that you are denying any culpability. However, in an effort to elevate the debate I will try to limit my venom. I fully expect that all of you will likewise adjust your postures.
I have no problem making points and leaving it at that. I believe that I have the facts on my side so this just serves to make them more apparent rather than as you said, burying them under animosity.
quote:Originally posted by Soback:Come on Takvah, I've proven a long long time ago that you are not a Republican. You still saying that you are? Where's your reply to my post in a "Letter to Kerry" thread? You know why there's no reply, because you actually had absolutly nothing intellingent to say to that, that's why. If you want, I can cut and paste that last post into this thread, see you reply then which will prove AGAIN that you are not a Republican.
Soback are you referring to the portion where you called the flat tax and consumption tax COMMUNIST? You're right I didn't respond to it. Why would I respond to such an uninformed response as "it's communist".
It has been supported by people here that are not COMMUNISTS, unless you think Darkling and Kalshion are communists and other PINKOS like hmmm... MARGARET THATCHER, Steve Forbes and Jack Kemp along with MANY OTHER REPUBLICANS.
I didn't say it was the answer I said I thought it was worth looking at and I might favor it under the right circumstances.
DO YOU KNOW THAT THIS ADMINISTRATION HAS PUT A FLAT TAX IN AFFECT IN IRAQ? Republicans lead charge to implement Iraqi flat tax system
I just didn't bother to respond, I'm actually a nice guy and I don't get any pleasure out of kicking uninformed people when they are down. But since you got up... *snickers*
You guys say I have NO FACTS and then time after time I produce while I get in return insults and links to propaganda sites. At least LIS offers me THAT MUCH.
So what about Cheney the war Veep?
in Politics, Religion & Legal etc
"I am angry that so many of the sons of the powerful and well-placed... managed to wangle slots in Reserve and National Guard units...Of the many tragedies of Vietnam, this raw class discrimination strikes me as the most damaging to the ideal that all Americans are created equal and owe equal allegiance to their country."
--Colin Powell, My American Journey, p. 148