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Avenger2099

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Everything posted by Avenger2099

  1. I appoligize for my friends about all the one liner posts. The new people (blade and stupidity) are both from my school I told blade and blade told stupidity. So in essance its my fault I knew Blade would oppose me, thats why I brought him in. I also take some of the blame because I had my rapid fire resposes to sorry guys I'll tell them.
  2. But they recently did give us everything we asked for durring the second UN inspection now im not privy to the papers so i dont know if they were just round and round and didnt tell us everything. And I dont belive street or anyone else on this forum for that matter are saying SADDAM IS GREAT HAIL SADDAM. What I think street is saying if you would read all his posts is that we went into Iraq wrong. We did it wrong. We expected a normal war but what we get is a political war. Muslims are very vengful they still hate nations for doing something to them 10,000 years ago. If we do not win the hearts and minds of the Iraqis then we can not win the war. If we win the Iraqis they will turn in the guerillas hiding in there back yard and all will be good. But if we continue to do stupid things (like i dont know Abu Gharib) then they will hate us more untill the entire contry is up in arms against us. But we cant kill the entire country because theres still some innocents which America would be condemed for killing. Those who see no parallel in Vietnam and Iraq are narrow minded (no offense) Both wars are essentially the same except in one we considered them "Terrorists" or "Insurgents" and in the other we consider them "Gooks" or some other such slang term. In both wars we failed to show the people we where there in there best interests. The North thought the South were simply puppets of us, and we where no better then colonials. The Iraqi "Terrorists" see us as an invading army because, although we freed them, we're still there and we plan on setting up a government with a muslim whos lived away from Iraq for most of his life. The people don't identify with him just like they didnt identify with Diem because he had been in New York for most of his life. WE have to learn that wars arn't the same anymore. There is no true right or wrong now. Just one side and the other. WWII was the last war, in my opinion, with true bad guys the entire Nazis were obviosly evil. But now its not so clear some are evil, Osama for instance, but some might just be fighting what they see to be a empiralistic nation there to take them over. Sure we might not be and we can tell them that all we want but we have to make them BELIVE it to win. Only if we get support from the populace can we win. Nations no longer let only soldiers do their fighting, now everyone can get in on the "fun". PS: No i don't think Saddam was a good guy and yes it was right for us to go in. Just incase you didnt pick that up from the above long writing thingy.
  3. Thats what not i meant, world was a mistype... i was saying that they didnt take over europe even though we lost vietnam it was more directed at Blade... look man your misinterpriting my posts
  4. I know the commies won stop pulling stuff out of the air and putting words in my mouth. And yes it is a matter of interpretation but isn't everything?
  5. Thats not what i was saying im saying that 90% of the world didnt turn communist
  6. Alright good. I was afraid you where brainwashed for a second there. But thats what the patriot act does at least part of what it does. Im not saying the entire things bad but being locked up without legal representation is just wrong.
  7. I never said you did read my post more closely youll realize that I was more talking to Stupidity (sorry man you brought that on yourself) and him wanting to turn North Vietnam into a "Parking lot".
  8. Thats because if you want to LIVE IN THIS WORLD YOU DONT KILL IT. You say nuke everything which will in turn start a NUKLEAR WAR which will in turn KILL EVERYONE AND EVERYTHING. you dont think so? Russia had 100 megaton bombs by the end of the Cold War and lots of them enough to blow the planet many times over. We had less powerfull bombs but we had more Had we bombed Vietnam into a "parking lot" Russia would say "Our comrads are dieng AHH MOTHERLAND" and nuke us we nuke back the nuke back and so on untill there is nothing to nuke. And Blade you can go and say everyhing you find on the internet is true. When you read a book (non-fiction) you have to assume that although possibly biased the guy know what hes saying. If I post on the internet that Vietnam was full of Naked women would you belive me? probably not but someone will and they might go on saying that untill a lot of people belive it but that doesnt make it right. The internet doesnt have a screening process for false info books do. Thats why you need to support your arguments with facts and facts from every side. Because otherwise everything you say is simply opinion to be discarded if not liked.
  9. If you protested the government you would just sit there and ACCEPT IT!!!! One of the basic freedoms in our society is freedom of speech and freedom of a peaceful gathering that means if you dont like what the government is doing (say i dont know killing babies... everyone hates that) you can PROTEST IT PEACFULLY lack of that take away a fundamental right in this society THE FACT that you would accept your punishment so UNJUSTLY given means that you are already brainwashed with patriotic nonsense. To go along with anything unquestionably is just Dumb you must always question if you want an answer. Question God, question the War, question the Country, question your parents. No one ever gives you a whole truth there is no such thing as a "Whole truth" you must protest and question to find such things out.
  10. I'm not I am simply saying i have more experince in such area then you with out "proof" everything is an opinion. I have read others "opinions" men who have fought and died there and I have come up with my "best opinion" But yours is supported by what. What have YOU read besides the captions on BF: Vietnam. I'm sorry man but without sources your "opinions" are nothing more then the ranting of a crazed Republican. Not that you are one but with out "facts" debates are nothing more then two people shouting nonsense at each other. You MUST support opinions with facts. If you want my sources ill tell you them Vietnam:Why We Fought by Hooblar No More Vietnams by Nixon A Company Comanders Journal We Where Soldiers PBS Special PBS Specials web site Chicken Hawk Mr. Siebert-Social Studies teacher but he was in Vietnam so its like intervewing a Vietnam Vet. Who backs you up Blade?
  11. No I just want to move to Britan because the entire 3rd world doesnt hate them... and... they have cool accents... heh. Oh and the reason why Jag makes more sense to you is because you somewhat closed minded and dont want to listen to anything street has to say. Both sides make sense to me and I see where they are comming from but personally I'm siding with street more because he backs his up with more "facts" and he seems to reaserch them. If Jag can hit me with a whopper of a pro patriot act thing then ill switch sides yet again... Blade please keep a semi open mind the fact that people protesting in washington got locked up indeffinatly is not a good thing. Espeically when your old enough and wanna go protest some Democrat in office and you get locked up indeffinatly with no chance of trial or attorney because of the Patriot Act. It might be good in some aspects. But in others it's very very bad.
  12. You know what Blade you need to join the French Foreign Legion. Anyway dude you need to read the Vietnam Forum and stop posting in this one its for the Others (as in chose other in poll). Read through that and just to tell you I can back up all my statements with my research. After all when you doing a twelve page report you need to research alot.
  13. Oh im sorry so helping the population and such isnt good i never knew... Blade your blinded by the Red Scare and the amazing anti comunist sentiments of the US sorry man but you dont have a twelve page report and you havent reserched this subject like I have. Oh and if you didnt know as you posted in the other vietnam thread. The North Vietnamese... did win... is 90% of Europe communist... no...
  14. Here's something few people may know. WE supported the Viet nam quoc cop dong minh hoi (Aka: Viet Minh, the H is pronuced G so its Viet Ming) when japan invaded. The old saying the enemy of my enemy is my friend. Another problem with the whole basis of the war was that Ho Chi Minh admired us greatly. So greatly infact that he used OUR Declaration of Independance when he declared independance from France. Another thing is we supported France going back and colonizing when what is the one major thing we fought against ... Colonialism. They may have been communists but they where (shudder) good communists. When Ho set up his government in Hanoi (aka: Ho Chi Minh City) he also started land reforms that worked so well that the poverty level went from about 90% of the population below to 60ish% below in about one year. This man was a great leader.
  15. So you belive killing all innocents is ok as long as we burn a few guerillas. Thats the problem man you cant do that not if your America anyways. Why? you might ask? Because in America we try to take the moral high ground not to just kill everyone and be done with it thats just not smart if you dont want the world allying against you. I think we could have won but this is how. As posted in a different thread which i advise all other debates to be posted in quote: Recently I learned of a Project Pheonix started at about 1968 which was about infiltrating the communist ranks and destroying it from the inside. It also could have taken till 2010. If we had started this operation early I think we could have Truely won but with the approach we used im not so sure. ps: Thats the Vietnam thread if you didnt know Signing off
  16. Aye, quite nasty with the whole sawing off a head but you do have to wonder what all happened in abu ghraib considering at least half of the more graphic pictures haven't been realesed yet but what al quaida did in vengence was still wrong. It just shows that to know thine enemy is one of the most important doctrines ever in a war. If those soldiers had known about how vengful most muslims are they might not have done what they did but they might have oh well. Good post Sam.
  17. Yeah I kinda ment that to be alittle funny thats how I am. And dont worry I'm not a mindless sponge the only teacher i listen to is my social studies teacher and thats beacuse i truly think hes non partisen. He's also a vietnam vet so i respect him amazingly... I tend to respect vietnam vet just because of the whole welcome home we hate you now bits I've read about.
  18. Again I have about 2 things to say take them as you will. One I'm quite sick of hearing people use liberal as a insult if this line -----|------ represents the political spectrum and the line in the middle is the middle (perfect non partisen) heres a democrat and republican (star is democrat and number sign is rebublican ----*|#---- I mean come on guys they're so close together its not funny. Now of course of got some nutters like Anarchists or the Militias (belgium took over Montana according to the Montana Militia) but really they are quite a like. And also i would like to add that in my previous post i did not know much about the beheading I figured it was a clear cut. After learning about the sawing and such I am even more discusted and feel quite strongly we should get the men who did it. But, listening to the new on the radio today (NPR which i have from my conservitive friend as being amazingly liberal) some testaments from Iraqis saying that they felt this act was a horibble thing for them to do and that these men should be killed. I think it is quite wrong to consider nuking Iraq for two reasons. One-All Iraqis arnt evil and Two- If we nuke Iraq and piss of Al-Queda say so they nuke us back so we nuke them back so they nuke us back pretty soon the planet goes boom. And thats not a good thing.
  19. I like where this is going 50/50 on moral and about 75/25 on winning. Verry sweet.
  20. Actually the main reason I started this thread was because Vietnam intrests me greatly the fact that i have a twelve page report due is mainly coincidence. Also I would like to state that Vietnam was destined to become political because the Vietnamese wanted so badly to be free. We came in there with a WWII state of mind. You know we beat them militarily and they give up. But I dont think the Vietnamese liked that idea. Because we came in and fought and killed with big guns the entire population stood against us. Recently I learned of a Project Pheonix started at about 1968 which was about infiltrating the communist ranks and destroying it from the inside. It also could have taken till 2010. If we had started this operation early I think we could have Truely won but with the approach we used im not so sure. I thik the war would have lasted for a much longer time if we had not pulled out. But then again I havent been in the military and I am publicly schooled although I dont think mine is so bad. They dont even make us stand for the pledge. But thats just my opinion and it could just be Wisconsin. Which i live in by the way.
  21. Could we have won the Vietnamese conflict and was it rgiht
  22. I think this war is worth debating especially with all the parelels between it and Iraq and I have to do a 12 page report on it(my choice). More specificaly whether or not we could have won so if you debate anything please post reference for me to use. It's due in about 9 days but this interests me all the same. Muchos Gracias, Merci, Thank you and all that.
  23. Now I know I am probably posting a little late but i got to go to bed soon and i cant read these forums at school(they block any site with the word game in the description... facist pigs... heh). But I just read kals (mind if i call you kal... i think its kal) thing on no lawyers for the accused. What all this about lawyers man, i mean i know they might buy out a jury and such but in an average case how often does this happen. It's all about the jury. Of course this idea could also just be the school forcing American political belifs down my throat who knows? I say we all move to Britain or some such place... but thats just me... i dont even stand for the pledge anymore... but again thats just me. Edit: One thing about Ashcroft... how intelligent do you seriously think a guy is who [*]A. lost to a dead guy i mean come on [*]B. decided that naked statues (art) are nudie picture that need to be covered with a tarp. Seriously who gets arroused from a statue (please dont answer that).
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