Anders_helt

quote: didn't communism "work" in the USSR until it suddenly collapsed? Sometimes things take longer to bleed out than others. You can't compare comunismen with the system's we have in Norway and Sweden. We elected how are countries are run, thats called Democracy. You do know what thats is right

LOL

quote: This is a CLEAR warning to Socialist Countries. Your Methods don't work! Cutting back the workweek to 35Hrs, to force companies to hire more peole doesn't work. Giving everyone virtually unlimited unemployment benefits doesn't work. Giving the "Poor" unlimited supplies of Food Stamps and Welfare doesn't work. Giving everyone in the country "Free" healthcare doesn't work. Promising rediculous retirement benefits, to the point that people don't have to save to take care of themselves doesn't work. Overburdening the employers with MASSIVE levels of paperwork and regulations doesn't work. Then why is it working in Norway and Sweden?

quote: ROFL, That is THE MOST ludicrous and funnies thing I have ever heard. Why is that so funny?

quote:I have no tolerance for able-bodied men sitting at home, collecting others' money when they should be making their own, nor can I stomach the thought of women digging themselves deeper in the hole by continuing to have children. Neither do I. There rules are that if you receive social benefits, you have to take any job that is offered to you. And statistics on how much income a household have shows that, households that have an income from 0-44626 USD are populated by an average 2,6 people. And we have an OIL FOUND that is designed to cover the cost of pension and other social services in the future. and take a look at this link. http://hdr.undp.org/reports/global/2004/pd...h='hdi%20index'

you have to feed the children, etc.... so it's is not posible to get decent living by giving birth to children.

quote: What about healthcare? How do they do that in Norway? healtcare is paid tru taxes. And poor people don't get more children to get more money from the state. The money they get is barly enough to pay for the cost of keping that child healty.

quote: You obviously live in Europe. True, and the cops don't carry guns in my country when they are on patrol. Why do you think they do that? becouse they don't need them to carry out there daily work.

quote: Hence why I said that the a government shouldn't do that indefinitely for people who choose not work when they are able to. And they don't do that, people that for varius reasons are unable to work recive this per household, per month. has to cover everything they need. 1 adult USD 832 2 adult's USD 1420 increase per child in the house 0ÔÇô5(age) USD 396 increase per child in the house 6ÔÇô10(age) USD 414 increase per child in the house 11ÔÇô18 (age) USD 603 And becouse of the high living cost's in Norway this is bearly enough to cover people's basic needs. And when people are used to a high living standard why would they chose this way of life when they can get a crapy job where they can make 30000 USD a year. And a Single person living alone only recive 9984 USD a year to pay for everything from, food, clothes, rent, water, electricity.. etc......

I dont think the cops would allow them to help.

But what if the bad guys have full body armor, and everyone else have guns with 9mm ammo. and the bad guys have a MG3 that fires 18-22 bullets per second.

quote: The major difference is that in a Socialist environment, there is no incentive to work harder because any money made through your own added effrot has only minimal benefit to YOU. All of your added wealth is seized for distribution. Simply not ethical. This is how the taxes are divided in Norway: Income over(USD) Tax% 0 : 28% 58┬á615 : 40% 123┬á077 : 55% So it's not like all of your money is siezed for distribution. And if we werenÔÇÖt happy with the way our contry is run we would wote for another government quote: Why are those same citizens are not supposed to take care of themselfs and leave the government to do what it's SUPPOSED to do, which is protect the rights of the people, not redistribute money, not loot from those who earn, not support the unemployed, not provide retirement or medical care. The only thing the government is supposed to do, is PROTECT THE FREEDOM OF THE PEOPLE. That's it. ThatÔÇÖs your opinion, and I respect that. But I disagree on that the only thing the government is supposed to do is protect the rights of the people. In my opinion it has other tasks as well. And why is wrong for the government to help itÔÇÖs citizens to improve their current situation. If the government can help itÔÇÖs people to get jobs, so they can contribute to the socity everybody will profit. And the unemployment rate in Norway is at the moment 3,4% of the total work stock. So itÔÇÖs not the poor, the leeches, that has decided how Norway is run. We like to call our country a welfare state. And it will NEVER become a country like Belarus, where you have/had a nationalised industry, no freedom of speech, corruption, etc. And we have an oil found that is designed to pay for future pensions.

quote:I have disproved their excuse for "the bad guy having to reload before the cop" bs, for as you can see, any way you try it, the cops will still have more shots than the bad guy. What if there are more bad guys than cops, then the bad guys will have more shots than the cops

I not saying that I am pro socialism , at least not in the way you have experienced it. But I donÔÇÖt se that there is any wrong in having social benefits like free healthcare, and public social programs designed to get people out of unemployment. Does the condition of poverty give you the right to someone elseÔÇÖs money? No, but the government has to take care of itÔÇÖs citizens, and most poor people are unemployed and are looking for work. If you can help them get a job by supporting them financially so they can get an education the society will gain from it. Does the condition of sickness gives you the right to have someone else pay for your medical care? -You pay for medical care thru taxes, Does the condition of being stupid give you the right to live off of someone elseÔÇÖs labours? -Many stupid people work for a living,. I meet some at my last workplace. And what do you mean by stupid people? Why do you feel that I am responsible for someone I have never met? -IÔÇÖm not saying that you are responsible for someone you never met, but the government are responsible for itÔÇÖs citizenÔÇÖs and you help the government do itÔÇÖs job by paying taxes. Why is it that the society gets to decide how much is enough for me to live on, and at what point in my income I should have more money taken away to give to another instead of spending more on my family. - everyone need a minimum income so support themselves, when you make more than that you have to pay more in taxes to help the government build roads, support the police, fire departments, FBI, CIA, social services, wage war on other countries. Etc. that is why the percentage of how much you pay in tax increase when you make more money. Why do you feel that those who produce, own even a single dime of involuntary "contribution" to those who do not? - There are many reasons why people donÔÇÖt produce. For many that reason is that there are no jobs they can take. And is it OK for you to have large numbers of the population starve to death because they can not afford food, or have to commit crimes to afford it? And the final question, as ones country becomes more and more socialist. Takes more and more of your earnings, your labours, ect... What is the incentive for YOU to work harder, if the harder you work, the exponentially less you keep. Think about it, how much better is it if you work 8 hour days and rent your own place, buy your own food, pay for your own medical insurance, and save for your own retirement versus not working at all but getting free apartment, free food, free medical care, and not have to worry about retirement. When does one reach a point where it's just becomes better to give up, have your standard of living drop a little but the "benefit" of not having to work. - You donÔÇÖt get free food, you get a small amount of money so you can buy food, pay various bills. -You donÔÇÖt get a car, and other luxuries items like that, you can not afford them. You only get enough to support yourself. You donÔÇÖt get enough to live a life where you can what you want. -How much pension you get when retire is decided by how much money you make when you work. The more you make, the more you get when you retire. -Free medical care: thatÔÇÖs was taxes are for. (You probably disagree with me on that one.) Why it's ok to have legalized looting and redistribution of wealth backed by the government with proclamation of "Your money or our jails" - If you donÔÇÖt like the current taxes: vote for a party that promise to lower them. ThatÔÇÖs how it works in Democracy. If you look at the HDI index made by the UN you will se that Norway is the best country to live in. And we are what you might call a social democratic country. WE ARE NOT LIKE BELARUS. I believe that if you had moved to Norway when you where 11, you would have another opinion on what Europe is like. And when you say Europe: do you mean the EU or Europe? And Prez: thx for the welcome.

Soback: where have you experienced socialism? and why was that such a bad experience?

Quote: Having health and retirement benefits doesnt not make you rich, and does not mean you are not poor, on the contrary it seems that those same retirement and health benefits actually DO make them poor because they have to provide for EVERYONE at the cost of their own, taking what you earn and spreading it around. Having job security at the cost of millions of others not being able to get ahead and accomplish their dreams is a tremendous price, it's slavery and subjugation of those millions at the cost of security for others. I shudder to think of myself in those circumstances, China has the highest suicide rate in the whole world, they are also the most socialistic government in the whole world. Their suicide is highest for people between the ages of 20 and 35. When a person discovers that he can not live his life for his own purposes and in pursuit of his own happiness, and being powerless to change that, he also discovers that his life is therefore worthless to himself. Those who can live under those conditions have never discovered the freedom of their mind, or the value of their life. Soback Youre wrong .. If you look at the HDI (human development t index ), you se that Norway is on the best country in the world. We have social democratic system, wealth fare, free health care, a standard work week is 37,5 hours, And a normal work day is 7,5 hours. Work more and you get paid 50% overtime. If you work on holydays, or on Sundays you get paid 100% overtime from the first hour. This system doesnt make us pore. It doesnt prevent us from living our lives in pursuit of our own happiness. It actually enables us to be free to pursue the things that makes us happy.