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Supreme Cmdr

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As promised, I have released the 2.00.11 patch which has new stations added, regions revised etc.

This should make mp fleet games a bit more standardized.

The names of the stations in the game do not contain the fleet names, due to space issues in the VDD. But you can read the VCF to find the fleet station designations, then write them on a printed copy of the revised mp world map.

EDIT: The Antilles station is in the Rovarix region and not the Gendar region as indicated in the VCF and the map. This will be corrected in next patch.

[ 06-13-2004, 09:50 PM: Message edited by: Supreme Cmdr ]

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Guest Shingen

Two things:

Flux2 in the Rovarix region is too close to the Mul/Rai Rangon star station. Anyone who isn't Mul/Rai using that flux2 is gonna go boom quick.

Khan found that out last night.

Will public/private servers ever be able to save player stats on disconnect?

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quote:


Originally posted by Shingen:

Flux2 in the Rovarix region is too close to the Mul/Rai Rangon star station. Anyone who isn't Mul/Rai using that flux2 is gonna go boom quick.


I know this - and thats how I want it. Besides, in this new patch, the Antilles station is in orbit around the planet, while Rangon is in a 300km range orbit around that flux field. A station's max radar acquisition range is 250km.

quote:


Will public/private servers ever be able to save player stats on disconnect?

No. Its far too much work and for $19.99, not worth my time. Right now, my focus is resolve the pending sp/mp issues as best I can, then go focus on my other games full time, instead of dividing my time.

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From another thread...

quote:


Originally posted by Shingen:

Great stuff, but what server is everyone playing on? I logged on multiple times last night (server3) and played for about a hour by myself, and no one showed.


Usually server 3 or 4, since they have AG turned on. The best way to find out who is one (since the in game browser doesn't tell you), is to use the stand-alone ASE browser.

For example, I just took this shot of you and others on server3 and this of the folks on server4.

The ASE sdk does not provide the ability to see the players on the server, so there is no way to implement it in the in game browser (which uses the ASE sdk).

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Guest Shingen

What is it going to take to get the servers to save stats?

I would be more than willing to pay extra for the feature, just so it'll happen. It needs to happen for MP to flourish. Starting from scratch everytime I get killed or kicked off is not my idea of fun.

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You can't afford it Shingen. Trust me on this. Look, if it was trivial, I'd have done it by now or plan to do it. But its NOT trivial and I do NOT plan on doing it for UC.

Besides, most mp games don't allow server side saves anyway. And to do it, you have to plan from the start to implement it. Then you need a database (e.g. I use mySQL for BCO) back end (to store the logins), a different type of login system (which would recognize the same player, load their stats etc) etc etc. Its NOT trivial and I doubt that even your savings would be able to pay for it. Heck, you were *****ing about being able to afford to buy UC. Gimme a break. This stuff ain't cheap you know.

If the game had sold at the original MSRP and I made the money I had projected, it would have been something to spend money and resources on. Heck, I pay for the mp servers, don't I? DC stops contributing after this month and I have to pay a $1,000 per month for them, going forward - or there won't be ANY public servers to play on (since they require a high-end dedicated machine).

Its the kind of feature that would probably go in an add-on or a subscription based system - not something to throw into a $19.99 game. And even if I did do it as a subscription based model and charged for those using it (similar to an MMO), you'd be the first in line to ***** and moan about it. Are you prepared to pay a monthly fee to play on a persistent UC server with a database backend?

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Guest Shingen

quote:

Originally posted by Supreme Cmdr:

You can't afford it Shingen. Trust me on this. Look, if it was trivial, I'd have done it by now or plan to do it. But its NOT trivial and I do NOT plan on doing it for UC.

Besides, most mp games don't allow server side saves anyway. And to do it, you have to plan from
the start
to implement it. Then you need a database (e.g. I use mySQL for BCO) back end (to store the logins), a different type of login system (which would recognize the same player, load their stats etc) etc etc. Its
NOT
trivial and I doubt that even your savings would be able to pay for it. Heck, you were *****ing about being able to afford to buy UC. Gimme a break. This stuff ain't cheap you know.

If the game had sold at the original MSRP and I made the money I had projected, it would have been something to spend money and resources on. Heck, I pay for the mp servers, don't I? DC stops contributing after this month and I have to pay a $1,000 per month for them, going forward - or there won't be ANY public servers to play on (since they require a high-end dedicated machine).

Its the kind of feature that would probably go in an add-on or a subscription based system - not something to throw into a $19.99 game. And even if I did do it as a subscription based model and charged for those using it (similar to an MMO), you'd be the first in line to ***** and moan about it. Are you prepared to pay a monthly fee to play on a persistent UC server with a database backend?

Look man, you aren't the only one that runs a business. I run my own, and last year I cleared 45K after taxes. It may not be alot, but it ain't chicken feed neither.

I don't think I ever *****ed and moaned about the price of UC. In fact, I think I was one of the people who said it should've been sold at MSRP! Even when I was banned from this site and was posting on that lousy DC forum.

The simple fact of the matter is, BC is far too involved and complicated to run like every other piece-o-crap game out there. You know, as well as I do, that you don't get the full BC experience until you have a competent crew and an upgraded ship (with a few artifacts thrown in). The way you have the game written, it takes at least 72-84 hours of constant play to get there.

Hell, even Freelancer lets your save stats, and Freelancer is an MS piece-o-crap. BC makes FL look like a McDonald's happy meal, but you can still save on disconnect.

Ban me if'n you want to, but I doubt that there isn't a single player in MP that doesn't want to save stats on disconnect.

nuff said.

[ 06-25-2004, 05:55 PM: Message edited by: Shingen ]

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Uhrmmm in his defense he just had a really lousy MP game heheh. Can the servers all be reset for the weekend? I know that Server 3 was running like a dog when we were on there SC.

As an aside, I have access to a server (my Ultima Online server, *shields himself from the boos and hisses*). Anyway it is an AMD Duron 1.3/512 ... nice big pipe (I host 100 plus players in Ultima without lag).

Anyway, SC will this game run on that rig? I'm not interested in having my old lady do this for me if it's not going to work. Yeah, yeah... snicker, snicker (ya bastards) but in this family the missus is the IT professional. Now if you need a mortgage though... I'm your man heheh.

Anyway Derek, I'd appreciate your thoughts on whether or not you think your game will run on that (I would not allow for more than 8 players or so with the NPCs being active).

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quote:


Originally posted by Shingen:

Ban me if'n you want to, but I doubt that there isn't a single player in MP that doesn't want to safe stats on disconnect.

nuff said.


Why would I ban you? If you run a business, then you SHOULD know that at this point in time, it is NOT a viable nor sound business decision to do it. As such, I'm not doing it.

Now, if you want to send me that $45K (OK, thats funny, considering - and DC knows this - that UC cost upwards of $450K to develop) of yours, sure, send it along and I will seriously consider implementing it. That should be good for about two months of 100% dedicated development work. Until then, my focus on UC is on fixing the remaining issues for those who play mp just the way it is. I have absolutely NO intentions of adding any further new features to it. Not today. Not tomorrow. Not ever.

The reason Freelancer has the ability to save server stats is because it was designed that way from the beginining, back when, under Chris's leadership, it was a totally different game and was supposed to spawn an MMO version. But you already know that, right?

The reason that Darkspace, Jumpgate and Eve have the ability to save server/client stats, is because they were designed that way and are MMO games.

Oh yeah, none of the X games have ever had multiplayer. And guess what? Their X Online game (if it ever sees the light of day, given the retail disaster of X2), it will be an MMO because it was designed that way from the start.

VERY few games (mostly RTS games) allow mp game saves and there is a reason for that. Its called WORK and is based on an early design decision.

When you bought the game, you KNEW that it didn't allow server side saves. I didn't plan it. Its not in there. Now, you have two choices (1) you either play it as-is or (2) you stop playing it. It makes absolutely NO difference to me what choices you make. I've done my bit and I don't owe you - or anyone - anything.

Oh, and you didn't answer my question. Let me repeat it.

quote:


Are you prepared to pay a monthly fee to play on a persistent UC server with a database backend?

[ 06-25-2004, 06:15 PM: Message edited by: Supreme Cmdr ]

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Is there any way that you can add a netcode feature that allows MP ships to spawn with medium grade upgrades/AI across the board? I know that wouldn't help much as far as the, "I play on this server and I am macked out... so die!" factor... but it might make for more competetive action.

Frankly, I understand both sides. Would it be a nice feature... sure. Is it practical for a $20 game, maybe not. Mostly though, having played Freelancer I remember all of the pathetic campers in their souped up ships that never gave new players a chance. I don't want that for this game.

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quote:


Originally posted by Takvah:

Can the servers all be reset for the weekend? I know that Server 3 was running like a dog when we were on there SC.


Done. I have reset all the servers.

quote:


Anyway, SC will this game run on that rig?


Probably not. Your 100 ultima users is equivalent to two players on a UC server due to the massive number of packets that have to go back/forth.

quote:


Originally posted by Takvah:

Is there any way that you can add a netcode feature that allows MP ships to spawn with medium grade upgrades/AI across the board? I know that wouldn't help much as far as the, "I play on this server and I am macked out... so die!" factor... but it might make for more competetive action.


No.

And its got nothing to do with the netcode. If I modified the starting params for the ships, then it will also affect the NPCs. Which will negate anything you're thinking of. Besides, why are upgrades needed? The default settings for the ships are just fine.

I even reduced the repair times in the mp game (1 min while docked, 5 mins while flying around) in order to make it easier to recover from combat damage.

And once I finish up the issue with the dropped cargo pods containing items, getting upgrades should be an easy affair (especially on AG servers).

quote:


Frankly, I understand both sides. Would it be a nice feature... sure. Is it practical for a $20 game, maybe not. Mostly though, having played Freelancer I remember all of the pathetic campers in their souped up ships that never gave new players a chance. I don't want that for this game.

Most $19.99 games don't even have one single iota of the feature set of this game. I'm them one chewing the reduced (by half!!!) income stream on a game I spent all that money and two years on. Go to, for example, Activision Value, eGames etc and see what value games sell for $19.99.

Apart from that, I could've just left the $19.99 game as it was back in Feb 04 - especially since its not like I didn't tell and prepare the world for what DC was going to put in the box. Not to mention the money (in excess of $50K btw) I spent on legal bills.

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Guest Shingen

quote:

Originally posted by Supreme Cmdr:

Why would I ban you?

Sorry.. I'm used to getting banned.

quote:

If you run a business, then you SHOULD know that at this point in time, it is
NOT
a viable nor sound business decision to do it. As such, I'm not doing it.

I own a business that builds homes. I'm a simple carpenter that made good (so to speak). I go out of my way to please my customers so that they'll tell others about my services. It's called "word of mouth". Sometimes I lose, but in the end I gain, because I get more people that want me to build their homes. I service the customer and they service me.

quote:

Now, if you want to send me that $45K (OK, thats funny, considering - and DC knows this - that UC cost upwards of $450K to develop) of yours, sure, send it along and I will seriously consider implementing it. That should be good for about two months of 100% dedicated development work. Until then, my focus on UC is on fixing the remaining issues for those who play mp just the way it is. I have absolutely
NO
intentions of adding any further new features to it. Not today. Not tomorrow. Not ever.

Well, you have your work cut out for you, 'cause there are alot of "remaining issues" in BC MP.

quote:

But you already know that, right?

Actually I did. Still, what Chris wanted from FL, wasn't what MS delivered.

quote:

Oh yeah, none of the X games have ever had multiplayer. And guess what? Their X Online game (if it ever sees the light of day, given the retail disaster of X2), it will be an MMO because it was designed that way from the start.

X2 was and is a sorry state of affairs. The game out of the box sucks! Pure and simple. They had the chance to make a killer game, and blew it. Still, Terminus let's you save stats as well ( a 2000 game). I ain't asking for gold, just something I can play online.

quote:

When you bought the game, you KNEW that it didn't allow server side saves. I didn't plan it. Its not in there. Now, you have two choices (1) you either play it as-is or (2) you stop playing it. It makes absolutely NO difference to me what choices you make. I've done my bit and I don't owe you - or anyone - shit.

I'm really sorry you feel that way about the loyal people who have supported this game. We don't deserve it. I've been a fan of BC through hell and high water. Before BCM and BCM-G. Through usenet crap and banishment for this site. I will always be a BC fan no matter what. It's sad to think that you feel that a BC fan is so worthless.

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quote:


Originally posted by Shingen:

I own a business that builds homes. I'm a simple carpenter that made good (so to speak). I go out of my way to please my customers so that they'll tell others about my services. It's called "word of mouth". Sometimes I lose, but in the end I gain, because I get more people that want me to build their homes. I service the customer and they service me.

quote:

I'm really sorry you feel that way about the loyal people who have supported this game. We don't deserve it. I've been a fan of BC through hell and high water. Through usenet crap and banishment for this site. I will
always
be a BC fan no matter what. It's sad to think that you feel that a BC fan is so worthless.


So, let me see if I get this right. You are suggesting that I haven't done enough already for the $19.99 game which you bought - in a sorry state - back in February? Don't even think of going there Shingen.

And don't put words in my mouth. If you feel you are worthless, thats your problem, not mine. I never infered such. Putting in such a high end time consuming and costly feature for this game is NOT WORTH IT. I have better things to do with my time, effort and money. Now, take that for what you will, I don't care.

As for the issues in UC mp, they are documented in the VCF and will be fixed as I find time to do them. So I have no idea what you mean by I have my work cut out for me. If its in that sort of state, why are YOU playing it? Because obviously you have a different opinion than others who play in on a daily basis.

And once again, and you didn't answer my question. Let me repeat it.

quote:


Are you prepared to pay a monthly fee to play on a persistent UC server with a database backend?

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Guest Shingen

quote:

Originally posted by Supreme Cmdr:

[so, let me see if I get this right. You are suggesting that I haven't done enough already for the $19.99 game which you bought - in a sorry state - back in February? Don't even think of going there Shingen.

Yes, you've done plenty! Christ, can't we get on the same page here! $19.99 for this game is an insult and a joke!

quote:

And don't put words in my mouth. If you feel you are worthless, thats your problem, not mine. I never infered such. Putting in such a high end
time consuming and costly
feature for this game is
NOT WORTH IT
. I have better things to do with my time, effort and money. Now, take that for what you will, I don't care.

I'm not going to argue the point. From my end I infered it differently.

quote:

As for the issues in UC mp, they are documented in the VCF and will be fixed as I find time to do them. So I have no idea what you mean by
I have my work cut out for me
. If its in that sort of state, why are YOU playing it? Because obviously you have a different opinion than others who play in on a daily basis.

Just because no one posts their concerns doesn't make it a moot point. Spend some time on server3 and listen to your customers.

quote:

And once again, and you didn't answer my question. Let me repeat it.

quote:

Are you prepared to pay a monthly fee to play on a persistent UC server with a database backend?


Yes, for BC, I would! Only BC would I pay to play! Does that answer your question?

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quote:


Originally posted by Shingen:

Just because no one posts their concerns doesn't make it a moot point. Spend some time on server3 and listen to your customers.


Nonsense. There isn't a single issue that isn't already known and logged (24 to date). PLUS, I'm on the servers more often than you. Gimme a break and stop posting based on conjecture and assumptions.

And if you think I don't read the server logs (which get backed up) each and every day, then there is a LOT you don't know. The mp servers are just an extension of this forum - so I pay close attention to both and I check them around the clock.

quote:


quote:

Are you prepared to pay a monthly fee to play on a persistent UC server with a database backend?

Yes, for BC, I would! Only BC would I pay to play! Does that answer your question?


Then soon you will get your chance to do just that.

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OK Guys lets cool off.

quote:

DC stops contributing after this month and I have to pay a $1,000 per month for them, going forward - or there won't be ANY

OK, that's a lot of money. I suggest cutting back from 4 servers to 2 or 3.If the testers need a server for testing I don't think anybody is going to complain.

Also,I could handle a monthly fee. But everyone is not going to agree with that.

To Shingen (and everyone else) : Lets just play the game as it stands.

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Derek nobody said you don't do more than the $19.99 price would have warranted. I don't think anyone is non-appreciative of your efforts. I think I made that plain on numerous occassions the most recent time being today. You have stood by the product and then some.

Gentlemen I think you have more in common from a positive point of view than you do from the negative. For what it is worth I see Shingen approaching his work with the new TDH clan much the same as you approach yours SC. He just wants the multiplayer to be crisp, that's all. Meanwhile, I know having played multiplayer for several months now that it gets BETTER AND BETTER as you work out the patches.

Let's not lose sight of the commonality by engaging in a pissing contest. For my part I think Derek that you have to learn something; this is YOUR game... that doesn't mean however that any of us is incapable of loving it to a similar degree as you do. WHen we spend time in your universe, make an effort to be a part of it, etc. there is a certain amount of our own blood, sweat and spirit that goes into those endeavors. I know that you have the lion's share of effort, developed the concept, dealt with the scumbag developers, put your money and reputation on the line and did your best. While nobody will make commitments to such a degree as that, commitments are indeed made. Just take that into consideration when you are backhanding us *lol*.

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quote:


Originally posted by Takvah:

Just take that into consideration when you are backhanding us *lol*.


LOL!!! OK, that made me laugh.

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Guest Shingen

quote:

Originally posted by Takvah:

Gentlemen I think you have more in common from a positive point of view than you do from the negative. For what it is worth I see Shingen approaching his work with the new TDH clan much the same as you approach yours SC. He just wants the multiplayer to be crisp, that's all. Meanwhile, I know having played multiplayer for several months now that it gets BETTER AND BETTER as you work out the patches.

Well said...and I agree. BC has been one of my passions for going on 6-7 years. In fact, it's been the very first game installed on my computers since 1997-8. Everytime I buy a new kit, or have to reinstall my OS, BC is the very first game that gets installed.

It's the only game I have two seperate systems dedicated to running the game 24/7 (BC3K on a 350Mhz, and BCM running on a 1.6Ghz).

I run UC on a 2.4Ghz, but it ain't dedicated because of the wife and kids wanna play on the damn thing.

If that ain't commitment, tell me what the hell is?

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Guest Shingen

Could someone please reset server3? The same NPCs have been locked in HJ since last night.

Thanks.

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I have reset all the servers and also lowered the sensitivity on ServerDoc because that may be what is causing the strange problems.

As for that NPC in hyperspace problem, I have yet to fix it since I can't reliably reproduce it.

SERVER 2/3 are now running in console mode.

SERVER 1/4 are running in graphics mode.

This will help isolate the problem with NPCs in hyperspace to see if it is an anomaly with the graphics server.

I also set ServerDoc to restart the servers every 24hrs (from now).

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Guest Remo Williams

I'll be on server 1 this afternoon checking out a few issues if anyone is interested.

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quote:


Originally posted by Remo Williams:

I'll be on server 1 this afternoon checking out a few issues if anyone is interested.


Get a grip. The general public don't have access to that server.

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Guest Shingen

I'll be on server3 tonight around 7pm till around 12am CST (on and off), most probably.

If anyone wants to do some training..logon.

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