Jump to content
3000AD Forums
Sign in to follow this  
Guest BaBaBooey

Oppression and lack of imagination killed MP

Recommended Posts

Guest BaBaBooey

I should likely keep my mouth shut but I can't and I don't want to be a part of a community that can't look at itself. So I'm posting this message and whatever the outcome I can deal with it.

Alright so I have been watching the way that multiplayer in the Universal Combat universe has been unfolding and I have a few observations.

First of all, I would like to know why RP is frowned upon in multiplayer. SC seems to be really down on it and I think it is integral to creating a feel and a reason for being in the game. Fleets exist for the purpose of uniting players and that's good but after that what's the function? Do you interact with other fleets? Do you draw up rules of engagement and divide the multiplayer universe between factions? I think it should be a firm yes. I think that intrusions into enemy space on any of the servers by an aligned player should dictate acts of "war". I think that there should be a neutral zone (one starbase and sector) set aside so that players can RP interactions that do not involve actual combat (as determined by fleet leaders and not involving the guy just popping in for some fun). Obviously, fleet play and some dude just looking for a game are two seperate matters and nobody is suggesting that everybody needs to interact in this way. SC blames Shingen for the RP mentality? Hello, Mr. Smart, you refer to yourself as the "Supreme Commander". I think if the tone was set, it was set by you.

Dismantling of the raider fleet. It was a selfish act and for mentioning it I expect to be banned. The forum topic states that the area in which Remo Williams was posting is for Raiders and Indies only. If Friday had come then there would have been reason for another fleet leader to say, what's the deal. I think it was very clear that in the beginning that there was RP involved in telling Remo to back off. Obviously after the snippy reply made by him it got very heated.

There is a lot that can be done with this game. There is a lot of fun that can be had. There are a lot more scenarios that can be played out and enjoyed beyond some simplistic stupidity of a scoring system. If there is any hope for fleet survival and expansion there needs to be a community mentality. Why would anyone frown on the RP aspects of multiplayer? Why would people that enjoy this be made to feel small? Especially considering as I said, the chief tomato thrower is called SUPREME COMMANDER for Chrissakes.

There are a lot of cool scenarios that can be played out in this game... escort missions, capturing of disabled ships, blockade runs, fighter engagements, all kinds of battles and interactions that I have considered and would have liked to have seen come to fruition. So many things that go beyond the hack and slash that is the current thinking behind the UC multiplayer I am seeing. There are even possibilities for planetary operations... on a small scale that can be bolstered with good RP. Maybe there is a strange archaeological find on one of the planets and people rush to locate it and secure it. Or maybe you have a scenario where a guy has to survive at a base for such and such a length of time without being assassinated (scoped and whacked).

I am sorry but the choking off of RP in this game has made it so damn stale. You enter a game and really what's your focus or motivation? The only thing you really see are hunter/killer types of engagements. Yes, these are fun but they aren't going to make fleet operations necessary. I see all of these branches of fleets, covert operations, recon, the list goes on and on. WHAT'S THE GOD DAMNED POINT OF IT ALL when your fleet commander and the other fleet commanders don't even engage in any kinds of activities like this? I hear all of these grand plans... HELLO? What's the point? I have yet to see any kind of action translated from all of the pomp and circumstance. Galcom has a website... wow. It will go the way of all the other things I've seen in my near year here... nowhere. There isn't even any relevant information on it. What can you say there that you couldn't say here?

I guess I just had to have my say. To show some people that thinking outside the box is what is necessary to start the ball rolling. If the status of multiplayer isn't going to expand to include RP based fleet interaction then none of this really matters now does it? I could very easily decide that I hang with Jamotto and I hang with Ockham when in multiplayer and beyond that is there any need for us to say, "We're a fleet"? I mean we didn't even go as far as most fleets do... covert ops, weapons development, supply... huh, for what?!

Fleets, command structures... it's all bloody RP. How you are supposed to seperate that from the ingame experience when that's the whole point of the exercise, is beyond me. Nobody is holding a gun to anybody's head to join a fleet or to RP... oh but wait... we are... because if you're not in a bloody fleet you can't play on the servers. My what a nasty and disjointed tail chasing that concept is... hoofah.

THERE IS SO MUCH THAT CAN BE DONE. THIS POST ISN'T MEANT TO BE NASTY. IT IS MEANT TO SAY, "WHY AREN'T WE HAVING FUN WITH THIS GAME THE WAY WE'VE ALL SAID WE WANTED TO?"

Meh... now it's time for me to accept my forthcoming banishment and maybe three people will have the chance to read this before it is deleted. But hell it came from the heart and I wouldn't take back one word.

Peace and a happy holiday to you all...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'll take a moment to respond to this because I think it's a worthwhile question, even if the question is framed in a way that may result in your "forthcoming banishment." I am, however, going to post twice. Once now, in short, because I'd rather answer at length in a second post that speaks to the issues and I can imagine the admins perhaps killing this one. If they do, then that's their prerogative, but I'm willing to carry out this conversation if no one else wants to. I certainly don't think anyone else must.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

quote:

Originally posted by BaBaBooey:

First of all, I would like to know why RP is frowned upon in multiplayer. SC seems to be really down on it and I think it is integral to creating a feel and a reason for being in the game. Fleets exist for the purpose of uniting players and that's good but after that what's the function? Do you interact with other fleets? Do you draw up rules of engagement and divide the multiplayer universe between factions? I think it should be a firm yes. I think that intrusions into enemy space on any of the servers by an aligned player should dictate acts of "war". I think that there should be a neutral zone (one starbase and sector) set aside so that players can RP interactions that do not involve actual combat (as determined by fleet leaders and not involving the guy just popping in for some fun). Obviously, fleet play and some dude just looking for a game are two seperate matters and nobody is suggesting that everybody needs to interact in this way....


First thing to note is that RP isn't officially recognized as part of the BC universe. It's something the fleets with SC's "sanction" but that's not an official inclusion. That said, RP is genuinely a part of what the fleets do, although at present it's health is rather anemic. There are ideas on the table to reform RP, but your topic is about the health of MP. So I'd say if you want to talk about how to do RP better, let's talk about that in a separate post, and I'd say also take a look at the Fleet Roles thread over in Fleet Discussions to see some of the discussion that's been taking place there with respect to Fleets and RP.

I think we can and should do RP within the MP game, but if I understand SC's objections, they are basically twofold. First, as is often the case, he's not committing to changing either his intellectual property (the gameworld) because of player RP. That's the reason why the fleets are official, but RP is only "sanctioned," which I read to be accepted but bearing no implications for the game world. The second objection I see him making is that he's not going to code anything new for the sake of RP. This is reasonable of course also since there is no wishlisting here and SC's running a business, not a made-to-order game service (if anyone actually DOES do this, I'd surely like to know ).

Beyond that, SC's been very accommodating, and has given people free reign to do what they like so long as the fleet leaders are onboard and they're not using fleet elements without permission (I myself have had experience with this, just do a search for "Fleet Action" here and you'll find whole dissertations and clarifications by all sorts of people). Prime fleet has an RP wing, and RP elements on their website, and Dreada from Wraith is looking to perhaps blend RP into an MP context, but SC's been clear about the MP game not being a persistent world, so the "persistence" of any RP would have to be kept outside the game itself. (Shingen wanted this, and SC's response was to wait for the MMO version of this game. This is, incidentally, why I created Fleet Action also, and in my case, I just created a solution that people could do if they wanted, and which didn't require SC to change or do anything.)

quote:

Originally posted by BaBaBooey:

The forum topic states that the area in which Remo Williams was posting is for Raiders and Indies only....Obviously...it got very heated.


Remo's an admin/moderator for this site. SC's said what he had to say about this, and while Remo's temper is not unknown around here, there are apparently better ways to deal with a dispute than the route Shingen chose, and ultimately that's what SC cited as his reason for taking the course he did. This is water under the bridge, but remember that the admin community here is a community, not just Remo, and there are ways to appeal your case if you do so with some maturity and you think you have cause.

Now past this point in your original post, you made reference to a lot of RP related stuff that I take my above response to speak to just as well. You did mention that fleets are essentially RP entities (given the command structure, etc.), and this is true given the past, but it need not be true given that other MP-only games have clan structures with command structures that exist for MP, not RP. Now, it's also not true that you can't get onto a server without fleet affiliation. Only server 2 is like this, but if you check your registration profile here, you'll find you have access to the passwords necessary to login to servers 3 and 4. So no, no one is holding a gun to your head to join a fleet, and fleets can exist for either MP or RP as they see fit.

Nonetheless, there are fleet players interested in RP, so read that stuff and see if you can engage those discussions helpfully. Passion is good and welcome, ranting won't get you an audience, and what I've learned here above all is that if you want something SC's not already doing, you have to create it yourself. Fortunately for you, others ARE interested in restoring RP, and even in using RP within MP settings.

Tell ya what, I'm going to create a thread for this in the RP area, and we can talk about it usefully there instead of ranting about "the death of MP" here. Fact is, MP is just getting ready to enter its halcyon days with the release of UCAWA (even though I'm going to have to get a new processor, dratted game!) with its reworked MP code, and the later release of UCHI. So hang with this a little longer, don't blow your stack, and put your passion into something for everybody who wants to come along for the ride.

That's what I did, and do.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest BaBaBooey

Nobody asked anybody to script anything or to add any features to this game. I think the only thing ever asked of SC was that the multiplayer be a bit more steady. Beyond that there was never a request to accomodate RP through coding on his part.

Ranting is hardly what I would call my post. I'm sorry if I'm not posting with my sphincter in a pucker or in a lithium haze. You obviously mistake passion for ranting.

There were obviously some very constructive points within this post with various suggestions being made to spice up play. For nearly a year MP has been an exercise in lethargy that made the reality of fleets no more necessary/relevant than they were with the original BC3K release. I suppose you could color me frustrated and I'm sure that I am not alone, although others are far less vocal.

It is a shame that there is a real level of fear that surrounds posting opinions to these forums. Discussion is more often than not viewed as confrontation and that's not going to promote or advance dialogue.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Bababooey,

First, there is nothing wrong with being passionate about something you care about. I share your passion. But...

quote:

It is a shame that there is a real level of fear that surrounds posting opinions to these forums.

This is your perception. You are stating it like its fact, not a good idea. Just because someone doesn't post, doesn't mean they "fear" doing so. I learn a lot more from reading. And 99% of the questions I have had with the game, has already been answered, and most often several times. The SC posts a ton. His answers to any conceivable question is already here for the viewing. I digress..

Just a couple of observations based on casually watching the MP forums.

1. The official servers cost someone or some organization real money to set up, maintain, provide bandwidth to etc. etc. Guess who that is? Ever hear the expression.. "For free, I am a good customer".?

2. I gather the MP experience is a disappointment to many. Technical limitations appears to keep it from being more than what it is. However, the SC has tried to drill home (in his way), the idea that its financial suicide to continue to patch a $20 game. He has to direct his resources to future revenue generating projects. As a person with a business background, I understand where he's coming from. In fact, I think he's nuts for investing the resources he has to bring it up to its current 2.19 revision.

If you want more from MP, the best advice is to come back when UCAWA, UCHI and other future projects are released. The UC MP is what it is.

I have no real comment on the role of Fleets in the BC/UC world, RP or otherwise. But I don't view it any differently than joining any organization. There are always rules. You take a job at McDonalds, you are expected to show up on time, wash your hands before flipping burgers etc etc. Don't like the rules? What are your choices? Yeah, you can go to your boss and say "Ya know, I really love working for McDonalds, but I don't like the starting time, can we change it?" What does the boss do?

Sorry, I don't mean to lecture. Just letting you know how one other member of this community feels. For me, I choose not to participate in Fleets, mainly because I'm not sure I can meet the time commitment.

Cheers.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

quote:


Originally posted by BaBaBooey:

I should likely keep my mouth shut but I can't and I don't want to be a part of a community that can't look at itself. So I'm posting this message and whatever the outcome I can deal with it.


OK, goodbye. Thanks for stopping by.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this  

×