Jump to content
3000AD Forums
Sign in to follow this  
Zuul

Colonizing Empty Planets?

Recommended Posts

I've been playing a Terran Explorer and was wondering if you realy can colonize empty planets. This is what the Appendix says:

"10. EXPLORER

Due to the vast expanse of space, there are several uninhabited planets and moons. This caste is generated by alien nations at intervals to explore the defined region. It is usually accompanied by colonist and worker castes. All this class does is fly to the region, hang around for awhile, leave a probe and return home. If the planet or moon is uninhabited and not claimed by any other Alien Nation, they will leave the colonist and worker castes behind to cultivate the planet and find another place to colonize. The colonist and worker castes will then automatically start to build cities and structures on the planet on a priority scale. Including military castes in a class with explorers ensures that they can defend themselves in case of an attack."

So can you realy colonize empty planets and moons playing an Explorer? And if so, how would you go about doing it? I havent seen any so called colonist or worker castes aboard my ship.

[ 11-26-2001: Message edited by: Zuul ]

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Ok then... What exactly is the purpose of playing an Explorer or any other caste that isnt an aggressive type caste like military commander or a FPS career? I'd honestly like to know. Why even add any other castes as playable besides the aggressive castes if you can't even do what they are intended to do? What am I supposed to do, fly around in an unarmed transport just sending probes out and collecting minerals and avoid getting blown to pieces by armed ships for my entire career as an explorer?

So, diplomats cant use diplomacy. Explorers cant colonize planets. Why not just eliminate these two castes as playable then. Sorry if you don't like my opinions, but everyone is entitled to them.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

quote:

Originally posted by Zuul:

Ok then... What exactly is the purpose of playing an Explorer or any other caste that isnt an aggressive type caste like military commander or a FPS career? I'd honestly like to know. Why even add any other castes as playable besides the aggressive castes if you can't even do what they are intended to do? What am I supposed to do, fly around in an unarmed transport just sending probes out and collecting minerals and avoid getting blown to pieces by armed ships for my entire career as an explorer?

So, diplomats cant use diplomacy. Explorers cant colonize planets. Why not just eliminate these two castes as playable then. Sorry if you don't like my opinions, but everyone is entitled to them.

I sort of agree, although not completely. Can the scripting system handle making an actually interesting campaign for the diplomat/explorer castes? I'm curious because some of these careers seem like great ideas, but waaaay under utilized. As I said in another post (in the appropriate forum ) I haven't been able to dig up much info on this scripting system, so I'm really not sure. If it is possible than I can see these careers as being pretty cool - although it's sad there isn't much you can do with them in roam mode.

EDIT: Sorry, just thought I'd clarify. By "interesting" campaigns I mean a campaign actually focused on what the caste was meant to do. i.e., an explorer campaign where the goal is to actually explore and maybe see some results from said exploration. Or a diplomatic campaign where you actually have some ability to use diplomacy. If not... then why even have these castes available? "Completeness" might make sense if the castes could do something and what they do simply isn't fun.. but in this case they don't seem to serve much of a purpose.

[ 11-26-2001: Message edited by: Simparadox ]

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I have been too busy learning how to play the game and reading the manual but I was wondering if there are a lot of castes in the game that are really not that playable... hummmm....

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

quote:

Originally posted by kuroth:

I have been too busy learning how to play the game and reading the manual but I was wondering if there are a lot of castes in the game that are really not that playable... hummmm....

I thought it was pretty clear that a few of the castes were almost totally unplayable (at least in an enjoyable fashion), but what bothers me is that they don't seem to serve much of a purpose. I'd love to hear I'm wrong, though, and that these castes (explorer, diplomat mainly... but I'm a noob, so I'm sure I'm missing some) are unique and just aren't utilized. Because in that case I'll learn the scripting system as soon as possible and start figuring out ways to make them fun :-).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The reason for making them is that you can actually exlore space without getting constantly attacked. If you are of one race, but playing an explorer or colonizer then you can go into enemy territory without worrying so much about being blown to bits and have time to visit a planet and it's scenery without the "WARNING, ACUIRED" sound. Also, when mulitplayer comes out, you can be a trader and resuply the ships in combat that don't have huge cargo areas to carry all their spare parts and equipment, and when BCO comes then you will see even more things happening to those races you claim have no use in BCM. So yes, they do have a use in BCM, you just have to realize it instead of thinking that it's another one of those launch/kill enemy/back to base game.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

quote:

Originally posted by Soback:

The reason for making them is that you can actually exlore space without getting constantly attacked. If you are of one race, but playing an explorer or colonizer then you can go into enemy territory without worrying so much about being blown to bits and have time to visit a planet and it's scenery without the "WARNING, ACUIRED" sound. Also, when mulitplayer comes out, you can be a trader and resuply the ships in combat that don't have huge cargo areas to carry all their spare parts and equipment, and when BCO comes then you will see even more things happening to those races you claim have no use in BCM. So yes, they do have a use in BCM, you just have to realize it instead of thinking that it's another one of those launch/kill enemy/back to base game.

I understand that completely, but like I said (and you probably weren't responding to my post - at least, I hope not ) I'm more concerned about these castes having some sort of unique gameplay centered around them that can, when editing becomes available, be utilized to some extent by campaign and scenario scripters. I'm really just looking for something as simple as "the game can track what planets or systems an explorer has 'explored' and this can be used by campaign/scenario scripters". As long as these castes serve some useful, interesting, or unique gameplay purpose than I can completely see why they were included.

But if they are simply weaker versions of battlecruisers that enemies react differently to... then I fail to see the point.

[ 11-26-2001: Message edited by: Simparadox ]

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

quote:

Originally posted by Soback:

The reason for making them is that you can actually exlore space without getting constantly attacked.

Soback, with a statement like this it is obvious you have never even played the game as an Explorer. They get attacked by almost everything. And there is absolutely no way to defend yourself either (which doesnt bother me that much considering I AM an unarmed transport).

What bothers me is that certain classes such as the Explorer and Diplomat are completely useless. An Explorer finds new planets/moons and colonizes them as per what the Appendix states. But in reality you can't do any of that when you play an Explorer. All you can do is roam around and mine minerals from planets and trade. Hmmm, sounds mighty familiar to the Trader class, no? Same for a Diplomat, and a number of the other harmless castes. If I play an Explorer I better damn well be able to colonize planets and other Explorer type functions. If I play a Diplomat he better be able to do some diplomacy.

The game only caters to aggressive castes, FPS careers, and the Trader class. Every other caste is worthless to play as they cannot even perform the functions that their very existence is based on.

And again, sorry if it sounds like I'm upset, but I am. Something definitely needs to be done about these castes. I don't want to be a military commander. I dont want to be an insurgent or a raider. What I want to be is an Explorer and actualy be able to do what an Explorer does, not roam around pretending to be a Trader.

Whoever agrees with me, please by all means post your thoughts and keep this thread bumped.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

quote:

Originally posted by Zuul:

And again, sorry if it sounds like I'm upset, but I am. Something definitely needs to be done about these castes. I don't want to be a military commander. I dont want to be an insurgent or a raider. What I want to be is an Explorer and actualy be able to do what an Explorer does, not roam around pretending to be a Trader.

Whoever agrees with me, please by all means post your thoughts and keep this thread bumped.

I really hate to defend developers, because I always feel out of place (especially since they're usually able to do it just fine themselves ), but I just want to reply to this one little comment. It seems like Battlecruiser is primarily a military-oriented game. It seems kind of funny to expect full support for non-combat castes out of the box. The fact that the trader is as playable as it is, though, is a real surprise and treat for me.

Anyway, as I've said, I just don't see why they were included as playable. They just don't seem to do much (that I can see). I can see some really cool scenarios for explorers (re-discovering a long lost colony, anyone? Hunting for some lost artifact?) or even diplomats (Sneaking through dangerous territory to reach a secret rendevous point? Or meeting with a shady arms dealer to arrange a secret weapons purchase?)... it's just that right now they don't do anything! Why!?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I agree with you Zuul but let's give BCM the benefit of the doubt that maybe they are for future use or for modding??? I would love to hear more form SC on this besides "It's not in the manual"

[ 11-26-2001: Message edited by: kuroth ]

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Just to clarify, I can't complain about BCM whatsoever except for the harmless castes. I love the game and think its a great concept. I am definitely not trying to put the game down in any way, shape, or form.

Get these harmless castes doing what theyre supposed to be doing and the game will then weigh in as the most in-depth game ever created. As it stands now, aggressive castes, FPS, and Trader careers are the only options available if you want to have a good time. The other several castes are Traders with different names.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Its still not in the manual. The roam game is a SINGLE SCENARIO used by all of the casts. I currently play in the Assassin caste.

Yes the game is geared towards the military scenario, yes I know the Assassin caste is not covered with its own independent scenarios or missions.

When I can write my own scripts I will develop my own missions. Till that time I am learning to handle a ship, shuttles, the trading system, and trying not to get killed.

As to the story potential, I will choose to see the universe through the eyes of an assassin, and find fun and adventure where I can.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I can't speak for the developers (since I am not one), but I think I can clear a few things up.

First, the appendix entry that Zuul refers to describes NPC Explorers, not player Explorers. The castes appendix also describes the state of relations between each caste (eg whether mercenaries are hostile to raiders etc).

Secondly (correct me if I'm wrong), most of the non-aggressive castes, including Explorers and Diplomats, were included in anticipation of multiplayer.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Every race and caste is in the game and has been in since the beginning. I designed them and populated the world with according to their function. They DO function and just because you don't SEE what they do (have every followed a paramedic or an explorer?), doesn't mean they're not doing anything.

If you don't like a caste, don't play it. But whatever you do, do NOT question how I designed my universe when it has ZERO impact on how you choose to play the game.

That is all.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I know that NPC Explorers and other harmless castes do what they were intended to do. I'm not questioning that at all.

The problem is with PC Explorers and the rest of the harmless castes (exluding the Trader). I mean why not give the PC the ability to do what a NPC can do? I know I am not far off at all when I say an Explorer is a Trader with a different title when you play with one manualy.

It would just be nice if Explorer vessels (controlled by the player) realy did come with colonize and worker castes so that we could drop them off on a deserted planet/moon for them to build up a new empire. Same goes for the Diplomat caste as well. But like everyone else is saying, maybe someone will make a script where you actualy can do this stuff, although it should have been part of the game or at the very least introduced in a future patch.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

quote:

Every race and caste is in the game and has been in since the beginning.

I need to write my posts more carefully. I was referring to the inclusion of non-aggressive castes as player careers in BCM. I'm assuming that those careers were implemented in anticipation of multiplayer.

quote:

The problem is with PC Explorers and the rest of the harmless castes (exluding the Trader). I mean why not give the PC the ability to do what a NPC can do?

NPC Explorers cannot colonize planets. Take another look at the appendix entry.

quote:

It would just be nice if Explorer vessels (controlled by the player) realy did come with colonize and worker castes so that we could drop them off on a deserted planet/moon for them to build up a new empire.

No, it wouldn't be nice. What happens after you drop them off? You're on your own again. What happens next? Do you dock at a station, re-launch and pray that some other colonists magically appear off your starboard bow?

[ 11-27-2001: Message edited by: Menchise ]

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I agree first your want to drop colonists

next you'll want to tell them what to build.

its not CivIII.

Like SC said you dont have to play casts you dont like.

I never play Explorer or Diplomat, but i love the fact that i have option to do so if i want.

Since Elite and Privater i wanned to fly any ship in the game, (if its there already why not let player have it) and here i have that option.

And you dont have to trade in the game to make money. I play as Merc all the time and i NEVER trade. I get into fights and salvage caro to sell at near by station. Sure you cant make 10Bill in 5 mins but there is not much you can spend your money on in the game anyway exept repair. And to upgrade your ship you need only several mill and you can get that from selling few nukes (you can find those sometimes). Who knows what Explorer or Dipomat will be able to do in MP or BCO, but for now its nice to get in one of those ships and see what it fills like

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

...and a dozen customer opinions are crushed...

Well Zuul I think you have a good suggestion, though it would be something to think about for future products well down the line.

The BC line will only get better with time. Years from now, when that die-hard fan gets his copy in the mail or a gamer makes that impulse buy and picks up "Battlecruiser Command III !", he may very well have his expectations met when he chooses a caste type of diplomat or explorer. The direction of the game at that point may open up to include the wealth of caste (profession) types that are common to sci-fi. Those strange players from UO who spent hours upon hours cutting trees and making furniture, might love to drop down to a planet's surface and spend time making emergency repairs to a damaged facility to improve his ranking. A paramedic called in to help cure a rampant disease on a planet. Helping to colonize a planet, others to build it, people to manage it. How dearly do you think they would want to protect this digitized home of theirs that they built from nothing? Assassins making their way aboard an enemy ship hoping not to be discovered, to make their way to their target to kill them in first-person mode. Scientists sent out to detect strange readings in space or planetside to see if they present a hazard to the nearby system.

There are several areas not limited to castes to crack this immense game wide open even more than it already is. Derek may go more ship heavy, giving us ship interiors and design your own ship crazyness. And the persistent world concept is another massive direction (I shudder to think of the flood and quality of posts a persistent world forum would get, dear lord). Derek may shock us all and create another game option of a complety scripted campaign (ala the more "tame" space sims we have now) where you take your young pilot up through the ranks to a commander, dealing only with individual missions, cut scenes, the like. Who knows.

To summarize, as my ramblings have come to an end: BC walks an odd line between freedom and control. You can do an amazing amount with the game as long as you put in the time to figure out what it can/can't do and how you do it.

Tom / Doc4

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

quote:

Originally posted by Supreme Cmdr:

If you don't like a caste, don't play it. But whatever you do, do NOT question how I designed my universe when it has ZERO impact on how you choose to play the game.

That is all.

I guess that's understandable, but I'm curious how one would play as a diplomat or explorer caste (since those seem to be the two being debated most). It seems like the more "aggressive" castes can affect the game world (be it by trading and making a lot of money or by attacking hostile ships and bases) by playing in a way appropriate for their caste, but explorers and diplomats (and probably a few other castes) can't. At least, that's how it appears to me.

Again, I'm not saying this is bad since I wouldn't even expect the castes to be there as playable. I'm just curious how an intrepid player could go ahead and play appropriately as a diplomat or explorer and still have some impact on the game world. And I'm not really talking about in a multi-player sense, I'm just concerned as to whether or not these castes are really "playable" in single-player or whether they will be once scripting becomes available. Thanks,

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If you are an explorer, go explore. Go forth and survey the surface of Sygan, and start naming landmarks. Come back to the forum and say, "Look, I found a beautful fiord at coordinates XX North by YY West. It's just gorgeous at sunset, and I mined Iridium there. I've named it "Zuul Inlet" after myself. Or maybe you've found a partially frozen sea on the boundary between arctic and temperate on Kystar, and you name it the "Ross Ice Shelf" after a similar feature on Earth.

When MMOG comes, fleets and corporations will be building cities on those worlds. And if you've scouted out beautiful spots on every planet and moon in this and the up-coming add-on universe, then you can make a pretty penny showing them exactly where to build. Some day, there may be a bustling metropolis in Zuul Inlet, and it will no doubt be called "Port Zuul"

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

quote:


Originally posted by Badgerius:

If you are an explorer, go
explore
. Go forth and survey the surface of Sygan, and start naming landmarks. Come back to the forum and say, "Look, I found a beautful fiord at coordinates XX North by YY West. It's just gorgeous at sunset, and I mined Iridium there. I've named it "Zuul Inlet" after myself. Or maybe you've found a partially frozen sea on the boundary between arctic and temperate on Kystar, and you name it the "Ross Ice Shelf" after a similar feature on Earth.

When MMOG comes, fleets and corporations will be building cities on those worlds. And if you've scouted out beautiful spots on every planet and moon in this and the up-coming add-on universe, then you can make a pretty penny showing them exactly where to build. Some day, there may be a bustling metropolis in Zuul Inlet, and it will no doubt be called "Port Zuul"


Brilliant. Just brilliant.

In fact, you could even put crap in a pod and deploy the pod to mark the spot etc.

The possiblities are limitless.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It's cool that we now have the option to (role) play as a member of one of these castes, not to mention all of the ship choices. The appendix entries on castes referred to in this thread look virtually the same as the caste definitions used with the scripting tools back in 1996, and I expect they are still intended primarily as a guide for how NPCs of those castes are and should be scripted to behave. These castes DO play an important role in the scripts already included in the campaign ToD's - look at the role of the "Diplomats" in the very first scenario (very similar to the 2nd ToD mission in the original BC300AD).

I do understand that the original question concerned why a Palyer could choose such a career when many of its functions, as described in the appendix, were not (yet) supported in the game. But, I have to wonder, why would anybody want to colonize a planet in a real-time game??? Maybe BCO will support this, but this isn't Civ or MOO or SEIV - colonization takes years or even decades - I'd be bored stiff . The point is that seeing explorers and colonists while flying around adds to the feel of the game, and having to do things like escort, protect or evacuate them makes for interesting mission scripts. So, you can sign on as an explorer and explore the galaxy to your heart's content, but it's difficult for me to imagine how a real-time game like BCM could support something like a single player 'colonizing' a new planet...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

quote:

Originally posted by Mitchell:

I do understand that the original question concerned why a
Palyer
could choose such a career when many of its functions, as described in the appendix, were not (yet) supported in the game. But, I have to wonder, why would anybody want to colonize a planet in a
real-time game???
Maybe BCO will support this, but this isn't Civ or MOO or SEIV - colonization takes years or even decades - I'd be bored stiff . The point is that seeing explorers and colonists while flying around adds to the feel of the game, and having to do things like escort, protect or evacuate them makes for interesting mission scripts. So, you can sign on as an explorer and explore the galaxy to your heart's content, but it's difficult for me to imagine how a real-time game like BCM could support something like a single player 'colonizing' a new planet...

I can't see "colonizing" a planet as a realistic gameplay option, I'm just saying that if the castes are playable there should be at least a somewhat interesting and fun way to play them appropriately. It's one thing if you have a caste that only NPCs can play and they don't have any special abilities or advantages. That's fine - the way you play the game isn't affected since the NPCs can be scripted to act realistically.

On the other hand, if you allow players to play as a certain caste there should be a reason to do so. Even if that reason won't be practical until scripting new scenarios and campaigns becomes possible (I'm still curious about this, by the way). I'm not criticizing the game, it just seems odd to put the castes there (and, by extension, make some people want to play them) when they don't do much of anything.

Also... a lot of people have mentioned that some castes have been put in in anticipation of multiplayer. But it seems that if the castes serve no purpose in single player, they won't in multiplayer either. Just some random thoughts.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

quote:

Originally posted by EAGLE:

I agree first your want to drop colonists

next you'll want to tell them what to build.

its not CivIII.

Not exactly. I never said I wanted to assume full control of the new colony that is being built, (although that would be great). If I wanted to build cities manualy and in real time I would just go play Imperium Galactica II or a game along those lines.

What I am disturbed about is that you cannot even drop colonize or worker castes onto an empty planet in the first place.

If I could just drop them off and let them build up bases based on their own needs via some kind of script that would be just fine (call it expanding your races influence). I know the NPC Explorers can do it as per what the Appendix states. The appendix even states exactly how they go about creating new settlements as well (based on the colony needs). At least it would give the Explorer caste a clear definition on what they are supposed to do and give you some sort of accomplishment that you actualy did something.

I understand that you can roleplay an Explorer by just roaming around exploring new places. But a Trader can do that too. So can a military caste. So can an assasin or a raider, or any other caste in the game. As it stands, every caste can do what an Explorer does but with a different title. And they can do it a thousand times better because they actualy have a capital ship with weapons and marine compliments.

Simparadox hits it right on the head when he says that the Explorer and Diplomat castes are useless. At least when you play one yourself. They have no special abilities that sets them apart from other castes. I will say it again; An Explorer is the same exact class as a Trader with a different title. It just doesnt make sense whatsoever that you can actualy play these castes when the Trader caste is identical to them in every way. The only playable castes should be the aggressive ones and a Trader. Maybe a Paramedic too since no one seems to attack them. All other playable castes should be eliminated or given something that sets them apart from the other castes.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Please sign in to comment

You will be able to leave a comment after signing in



Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this  

×