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DiscoJason

Thrust problem in RC3

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Before I upgraded, if I went into Logistix and set my engines up to 10 and then went back to the Bridge and held down the W key, my ship would get to full speed and stay there.

With the patch, if I set the Engines to 10 in Logistix and the hit 9 on the keyboard for maximum engines, it only goes as high as if I had my engines set to 5 in Logistix. I can hold down W to get to max speed, but as soon as I release, it goes down to the max speed when I only had my engines set to 5 in Logistix.

I unplugged my joystick (which I don't use when I play anyway), just to make sure the throttle wasn't goofing things up and it made no difference. I had the throttle turned off in the options anyway.

So, it looks like the 1-9 engine settings are not taking into account what level the engines are set to in Logistix.

I didn't use RC1, so I don't know if the problem was present before.

Also, is there a reason Engines are set to 5 by default in Logistix? I usually go in there and turn it up to 10 so I can travel faster when I am to close to some target to Hyper to it. I assume going faster just uses up resources faster, but are there any other problems I should know about?

[ 02-16-2004, 03:28 PM: Message edited by: DiscoJason ]

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Hmmm...I did check it before posting. According to that section, it says "A thrust factor of 9 sets the max thrust of the craft."

So, when I bump my engines up to 10 in the Logistix section, my max thrust has now increased. However, hitting 9 on my keyboard is not taking me up to that max, but is instead taking me to the max if I only had my engines set to 5 in Logistix.

If this is as intended, that section of the manual needs to be reworded to say 9 is the max of the craft at default engine levels.

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quote:


Originally posted by DiscoJason:

If this is as intended, that section of the manual needs to be reworded to say 9 is the max of the craft at default engine levels.


It always was. At factor 9, the thrust of your craft will cap to its capabilities, regardless of what you have in Logistix. So, if you had it set to 5, when you press 9, the max thrust of the craft would be lower than if you had it at 10 in Logistix.

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quote:

Originally posted by Supreme Cmdr:

quote:

Originally posted by DiscoJason:

If this is as intended, that section of the manual needs to be reworded to say 9 is the max of the craft at default engine levels.

It always was. At factor 9, the thrust of your craft will cap to its capabilities, regardless of what you have in Logistix. So, if you had it set to 5, when you press 9, the max thrust of the craft would be lower than if you had it at 10 in Logistix.


Derek, my point here is that hitting 9 on the keyboard puts me at the same max thrust regardless of whether I have the engines set to 5 or 10 in Logostix. From what I just read, it sounds like that is not intended. Tell you what...I will go play right now and give you the speeds for when I hit 9 with my Engines at 5 in Logistix and when I have it at 10.

As an additional note, if I go on autopilot, it goes the max speed of having my engines set to 5 in Logistix when I actually have them set to 10. Therefore, I never use autopilot when I am going shorter distances, because I can go faster by thrusting up with the W key. However, with the patch, I have to keep W pressed down because it keeps lowering my speed if I let go of it. It didn't do that before you added in 0-9. Will jump in the game and get the hard data for you.

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I have the data. One thing to note is that something has indeed changed with the W key since 0-9 has been implemented. It used to be that holding down the W key got me up to a max speed (which I guess is an afterburner speed) and it would keep it there when I let go of the W button. It no longer does that, but instead decreases the speed back down to the rate determined by which key, 0-9, I have set.

From the looks of it, the engine speed in Logistix merely determines the max thrust speed when I have my afterburners turned on by holding down the W key.

Again, the change with the patch is that I cannot get that max afterburner speed to stick anymore like I could before the patch. If this is a change you intended to go along with the implementation of 0-9, then I guess there is no issue. But, just in case you need it, here is the data I collected while flying in a Battlecruiser MK3 ship. The columns will be Logistix Setting/Speed at level 9/Speed with W held down.

5/367/414

6/367/486

7/367/557

8/367/636

9/367/700

10/367/765

As you can see, the engine level set in Logistix has no effect on what speed the craft goes when you hit the 9 key. What IS affected is the max speed you can go when holding down the W key. Again, it used to be that you could travel at this max speed even after letting go of the W key, but now you have to hold it down the whole time if you want to go that speed.

You say above that if I have Logistix set to 5 for Engines, I should have a lower max thrust when I hit 9 than if I had Logistix set to 10. As you can see from the data from the game, this is not the case and my speed when hitting the 9 button is 367 no matter what level I have engines set to in Logistix.

My other question is if I set my engines to 10 in Logistix and then hit the 9 key on my keyboard to select the highest thrust profile, should I expect my speed to be at 367 or should it be at 765? Again, should my speed fall down to 367 from 765 after I release the W key like it does not, or should it stay at 765 like it did with the shipped version of the game?

[ 02-16-2004, 07:13 PM: Message edited by: DiscoJason ]

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Yes I've noticed this problem with autopilot as well. I figured it was a design thing, though. When autopilot is on in the ship you are currently in, it will only use half of the engine's capabilities (as if the engines were set at power level 5). But, if I remember correctly, the AI control of assets that you are not in uses the max engine speed (if appropriate).

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I think I've got the point.... the increased speed you got when giving more power to the engine system in the logistix interface is referred to the afterburners power, so if you set it to 10 and hit the afterburnes key (it's W I think... sorry but I'm stick with BCMG...) they activate and speed up your ship accordingly....until you release the key thereby deactivating the extra trust.

Note that your normal speed is not influenced by this and will remain the same regardless of the logistix settings; it will only be influenced by the trust factor setting.

Seems like it works like in BCMG.....

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quote:


Originally posted by DiscoJason:

I have the data. One thing to note is that something has indeed changed with the W key since 0-9 has been implemented. It used to be that holding down the W key got me up to a max speed (which I guess is an afterburner speed) and it would keep it there when I let go of the W button. It no longer does that, but instead decreases the speed back down to the rate determined by which key, 0-9, I have set.


I read that paragraph above and stopped reading because I don't like people wasting my time.

*topic moved*

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quote:

Originally posted by Supreme Cmdr:

quote:

Originally posted by DiscoJason:

I have the data. One thing to note is that something has indeed changed with the W key since 0-9 has been implemented. It used to be that holding down the W key got me up to a max speed (which I guess is an afterburner speed) and it would keep it there when I let go of the W button. It no longer does that, but instead decreases the speed back down to the rate determined by which key, 0-9, I have set.


I read that paragraph above and stopped reading because I don't like people wasting my time.

*topic moved*


There is no afterburner anymore is there SC?

Anywho, the 0-9 config works ... but if you go full blast with W, my aestrom maxes out at like 325 (at 50% engine power allocated)... if I hit nine, it settles around 240~ish... not much of a complaint but just curious if thats what you intended or what?

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After reading the VCF one last time, it looks like the afterburners are meant to only be active while holding down the W key. So, when 0-9 became implemented, this was an intended feature, it looks like. Personally, I like it the other way so that I can max it out and keep it pegged there without having to keep the W key held down, but I suppose that doesn't really fit in with the concept that you shouldn't always have your afterburners going.

Basically, that change is indeed in the game and is now the way things work, which was why I was wasting Derek's time by posting about it. Sorry, SC, but I guess I liked the old way better and wasn't sure if the new decrease after releasing the W key was part of the new system.

Thinking about it now, though, it is more realistic the way it is now as you shouldn't be able to afterburn around the galaxy without the mild discomfort of keeping your finger on the accelerator.

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quote:

Originally posted by DiscoJason:

After reading the VCF one last time, it looks like the afterburners are meant to only be active while holding down the W key. So, when 0-9 became implemented, this was an intended feature, it looks like. Personally, I like it the other way so that I can max it out and keep it pegged there without having to keep the W key held down, but I suppose that doesn't really fit in with the concept that you shouldn't always have your afterburners going.

Basically, that change is indeed in the game and is now the way things work, which was why I was wasting Derek's time by posting about it. Sorry, SC, but I guess I liked the old way better and wasn't sure if the new decrease after releasing the W key was part of the new system.

Thinking about it now, though, it is more realistic the way it is now as you shouldn't be able to afterburn around the galaxy without the mild discomfort of keeping your finger on the accelerator.

You ever played BCM? You actually had AFTERBURNERS that made ur head squish into the back of ur seat... this is just ur thrust profile... set with 0-9.... he means that W/S act like afterburners / retro rockets

set 5 on number 0-9.. u go half max speed

right?

hit w and ur temporarily able to go max speed till u let go and it goes back down to 5's preset

------

so this leads me to believe if you mash w... and u reach max speed... (on my aestrom its 325) that should be the same speed u achieve when hitting 9... although it only maxes out at 240~ish

and as far as i know theres no seperate key FOR afterburners so they're not in the game at all!

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W and S keys are now meant to operate like A/B. If you press 9 and NEVER touch the W key, the craft should ramp up to its max speed and *stay* there.

If it doesn't, its a bug.

If you use thrust 5, the craft will ramp up to half its speed and stay there. If you now press and hold the W key, the craft will then go up to its max speed (as it should), and if you let go, it will gradually drop back to the original speed set by the 5 key.

So, unless you have thrust factor 9 (the craft's max speed) set, using the W key acts like a pseudo-afterburner.

Gee, can anything be THIS hard to explain?

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LOL...Okay, I am hitting the 9 key and getting up to 367 max and it stays there. Then, I hit the W key and I can get all the way up to 414. As soon as I release the W key, I go back down to 367. This is with engines set to 5 in Logistix. If, I bump them up to 10, I hit the 9 key and can get up to 367 max. If I hold down the W key, I can get up to 765. As soon as I release the W key, I go back down to 367.

quote:

So, unless you have thrust factor 9 (the craft's max speed) set, using the W key acts like a pseudo-afterburner.

Now, this is the part I am saying isn't working. My top speed when holding down the W key and my top speed when just hitting the 9 key are two different speeds. The W key speed is much higher as is evident from the two examples I just posted.

So, is that a bug?

Thanks for your patience on this one, Derek. I was having trouble communicating this one, but I think we are finally on the same page.

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Problem ONE

quote:

LOL...Okay, I am hitting the 9 key and getting up to 367 max and it stays there. Then, I hit the W key and I can get all the way up to 414.

This means 9 is NOT maxing out the speed for the craft.

Problem TWO

quote:

If, I bump them up to 10, I hit the 9 key and can get up to 367 max. If I hold down the W key, I can get up to 765. As soon as I release the W key, I go back down to 367.


Not only is nine not maxing out the speed for the craft, its setting a thrust profile at somewhere no matter what the power level is at.

They're not two seperate problems afterall! If you fix problem one, you should take care of "problem two" by default.

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quote:

Originally posted by Supreme Cmdr:

W and S keys are now meant to operate like A/B. If you press 9 and NEVER touch the W key, the craft should ramp up to its max speed and *stay* there.


If you do what you said there, but press W... it shouldn't go any faster at all because its already at its maximum speed from hitting 9, correct? If thats the case:

What we're saying is that it DOES in fact pick up speed with 9... just not its maximum speed.

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My head hurts.

OK, I will look at it closely tonite and so help me God if you guys send me off on a wild goose chase. I'll make sure to cut all the speeds by a factor of 10 in the next patch.

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quote:

Originally posted by Supreme Cmdr:

My head hurts.

OK, I will look at it closely tonite and so help me God if you guys send me off on a wild goose chase. I'll make sure to cut all the speeds by a factor of 10 in the next patch.

Just make sure to share the golden egg when you catch it!

lol... thx SC... I really hope we confused you enough to ... erm I mean... gave you enough information to see what we're trying to point out...

Although I'm hoping we're pointing out the same thing...

lol

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quote:

Originally posted by Aphelion7:

quote:

Originally posted by Supreme Cmdr:

W and S keys are now meant to operate like A/B. If you press 9 and NEVER touch the W key, the craft should ramp up to its max speed and *stay* there.


If you do what you said there, but press W... it shouldn't go any faster at all because its already at its maximum speed from hitting 9, correct? If thats the case:

What we're saying is that it DOES in fact pick up speed with 9... just not its maximum speed.


I don't know but this makes perfect sense to me. If the ship is going at its max speed (without afterburners) then when you hit the afterburn W key it should go somewhat faster. For example if I am driving a car, lets say a 1972 Plymouth Satellite, and I have the gas peddle floored and the car reaches its max speed(without any type of boost) on a level road at say 120 mph. Lets also say that I happen to have a nitrous oxide setup on the car and I hit the nitro button. Wouldn't the car increase in speed somewhat? It might only increase a few mph but it should increase from the nitrous (afterburner right)right? Anyway the way it is set up now makes sense to me. But then I don't always make sense.

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I think the thing here is that there isn't supposed to be an afterburner in the game. If you are below factor 9, you get an afterburner effect, but the problem we are seeing is that at factor 9, when you hit the W key, you shouldn't get an increase in speed and we are seeing that we do. Factor 9 and holding the W key down should give the same speed.

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Wrong. AB should push your craft slightly above the max speed at 9. It wouldn't be an afterburner otherwise.

At lower thrust settings it will increase your speed to the max the craft can handle+ the extra for AB. When you release it it will drop back to the thrust setting.

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Well, then SC is confusing the hell out of me

quote:

So, unless you have thrust factor 9 (the craft's max speed) set, using the W key acts like a pseudo-afterburner.

This would seem to indicate that at Factor 9, you shouldn't get an increase of speed. This was what I was referring to when I said no afterburners. He indicates that being at a lower Factor and hitting W acts like an afterburner (in that it gets you up to max speed), but is only kind of simulating the effect. At least that is how I take that quote. Far be it from me to insert words into the mouth of the SC, though.

This should all get cleared up today and I can stop speculating, though.

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quote:

Originally posted by DiscoJason:

Well, then SC is confusing the hell out of me

quote:

So, unless you have thrust factor 9 (the craft's max speed) set, using the W key acts like a pseudo-afterburner.

This would seem to indicate that at Factor 9, you shouldn't get an increase of speed. This was what I was referring to when I said no afterburners. He indicates that being at a lower Factor and hitting W acts like an afterburner (in that it gets you up to max speed), but is only kind of simulating the effect. At least that is how I take that quote. Far be it from me to insert words into the mouth of the SC, though.

This should all get cleared up today and I can stop speculating, though.


SC sounds like there are no afterburners, like there were in BCM.

Thats not the biggest problem though, hit 9 when you have power level of 100% (10) in your logistics. It (hitting 9) doesn't achieve any higher top speed than if it were at 50% (5).

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