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scydiver

Quick question on Min Radar Range in the manual appendix

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Should "Min Radar Range" of Super,Heavy and Medium fighters be 5.0 km instead of 50 km, otherwise they would never get a firing solution for their guns and some missiles,therefor, wouldn't be able to use them?

Those space cadets are up for a nasty surprise when they are in combat for the first time.

Instructor:

- Cadet, explain how you managed to let that gammulan destroy a perfectly new fighter worth more than 3 mil credits?

Cadet:

- Sir,I don't know,sir. I HJed inside his min radar range as you taught us, sir, then bang... and i'm walking out of the cloning module, sir. You may deduct the price of the fighter from my salary, sir

Instructor:

- As i taught you, huh? Well, there's one more thing i need to teach you - the lattrine looks dirty to me and cause you've s***t for brains you two are meant for each other...

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Radar range has nothing to do with having a firing solution. And missiles have their own built in radar and do not use the craft's radar system. Read the manual.

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Sorry,SC, hate to be annoying, and I know you hate quotes from your manual but I have to use it this time

Here's what it says:

"...A radar enabled unit cannot achieve active ping if the target is outside of its min/max aquisition parameters. Just because an active ping is achieved, doesn't mean that the target has a lock solution. It could have a long radar range and still not have a missile that can launch within those parameters..."

p.18 Tactical Radar Scanner. Radar Modes.

So, as I see it:

-step one - active ping (radar aquisition parameters)

-step two - lock solution (missile aqusition parameters or gun max range)

-step three - fire

If I'm right, than somebody missed a dot when inputing data on those fighters into the manual's appendix (Galleon?). How else whould you explain that for example "Inerceptor Mk1" has Min Radar Range = 50 km, Main Gun Max Range = 10 km, and it's still firing ?

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The pilots are using their weapons blindfolded?

Sir, yeees, sir!!! Sir, appendix is correct if you say so, sir!!!

I just brought it up cause i've been recently re-arranging the data layout on the page to give it more graphic representation for my own refference and when transfering figures from the original appendix, the fact, that some (light) fighters had Min Radar Range listed as 1 km while the other (super, heavy and medium) as 50 km, struck my attention.

Sorry, SC, for causing too much noise about a dot, but I could send you a test page with the modiffied layout i've got so far, if you are intrested.

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so, from this thread and the manual, i gather that the firing solution of missiles is based on the radar specs for the the missile. are the firing accuracies of guns determined by a combination of craft radar and visual detection?

i still don't understand how the min/max radar ranges and especially the min/max launch altitudes for craft come into play.

is there a reference somewhere that explains, in detail, what the various craft specs mean? some are obvious to the layman, others are obscure.

ta...

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quote:


Originally posted by Korant:

so, from this thread and the manual, i gather that the firing solution of missiles is based on the radar specs for the the missile.


Correct. The craft radar is only used to locate and acquire targets. Once a missile is armed, its own radar is used to guide it to the target. Yeah, its in the manual actually.

quote:


are the firing accuracies of guns determined by a combination of craft radar and visual detection?

Guns have nothing to do with radar.

quote:


i still don't understand how the min/max radar ranges and especially the min/max launch altitudes for craft come into play.

Its actually documented in the manual. In fact, there is an entire section about it.

quote:


is there a reference somewhere that explains, in detail, what the various craft specs mean? some are obvious to the layman, others are obscure.

The appendix data is in plain English and doesn't require any further interpretation I don't think.

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Still something doesn't add up. Mantis, Starlance, X22Aurora and Interdictor have Max Radar Range = 50km and Min Radar Range =50, so the difference between Min and Max = 0;

Did somebody along the distribution line typed an extra zero? 5km would make much more sence.

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Nonsense. The data is correct. Just because they are both the same, does not mean that one cancels out the other.

Read the manual. Use common sense (instead of fuzzy nonsensical math) and it will all become obvious. Then again, maybe not.

Keep this up and you won't like the outcome.

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Am I correct to summ up that on a planet they (medium fighters)will only arm their missiles (and use their own seekers) against targets with radar in active mode or proceed untill the target is in their visual range otherwise and then use the guns or simply ignore you minding their own business if you are in passive mode?

quote:

Keep this up and you won't like the outcome.


Sorry, SC, that damn maths was driving me crazy for the past week. I spent it all flying around the bases and teasing different fighters and trying to put things together. I came to conclusion that those radar ranges are almost irrelevant (you almost always satisfy their parameters) while the altitude is much more important - stay low and everything's gonna be OK, although, the dull missiles keep hitting the hills so one would need a clear line of sight.

Shell we close the topic?

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quote:


Originally posted by Scydiver:

Am I correct to summ up that on a planet they (medium fighters)will only arm their missiles (and use their own seekers) against targets with radar in active mode or proceed untill the target is in their visual range otherwise and then use the guns or simply ignore you minding their own business if you are in passive mode?


Wrong.

As I said earlier, the capabilities of the craft radar only serves to allow the target to be visible on radar. The missile has its own radar seeker.

So, if you have a target that is 50km out and you have a missile that can only lock on at 30km, you have to move to within 30km in order for the missile to lock; though you can [foolishly] launch the missile in dumb fire mode, which means that it will fly straight ahead instead of tracking the target and following it.

Similarly, if your craft radar has a min range of 50km and a max range of 50km, this simply means that it can see and track targets from 0 - 50km.

On the other hand, if it has a min range of 5km and a max range of 50km, then it cannot effectively track the target when within 0 - 4km.

It is even more complex for ground targets which also take into account your altitude and range when tracking you. This is why, sometimes, you can fly over a base at certain altitude and/or range, and not be shot at by some of the threat systems.

If you downloaded the GBS and look in the OBJDEFS.SCR, you will find that the AI and dynamic values for the missiles, crafts etc are correct as they appear in the appendix.

And NPC units (e.g. fighters), don't just fire missiles just because they are within range, they have the correct missile etc. There is a lot more decision making involved and it all depends on the pilot's AI, skills, the integrity of his craft (e.g. they tend to fire missiles more when badly damaged, since the craft is less manoeverable in this state, making guns use harder), the intensity (e.g. how many attackers are converging on the pilot) of the engagements etc

Finally, what I meant by you not liking the outcome, I was refering to the thread being locked, since it wasn't achieving anything useful.

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Thank you, SC,

quote:

Similarly, if your craft radar has a min range of 50km and a max range of 50km, this simply means that it can see and track targets from 0 - 50km.

- that's exactly what I wanted to hear, because I was thinking the way you said further:

quote:

On the other hand, if it has a min range of 5km and a max range of 50km, then it cannot effectively track the target when within 0 - 4km.

and 50km looked like a terribly big gap to me, and if the Min Range were stated as 0km I would never even raise the question.

Now it all came into place. Thanks again, SC, I do appreciate your patience with me and time given to make everything clear

Ta.

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Guest DocHoliday

I guess min. range 50, max. range 50km could also be interpreted as "the radar only sees targets at EXACTLY 50km" because technically, anything else would be outsite it's acquisition parameters..

I noticed it too, but dismissed it as a typo or something as in practive a fighter can DEFINITELY shoot you down at any range up to 50km

But obviously 50/50 is technically equal to 0/50km as you explained.. is that correct ?

Cheers,

Doc

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