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sainta117

5 missile reserve?

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I've noticed that when my fighter craft are loaded with missiles, they only seem to want to use the first five weapons in the racks. After that, they just fly around with 5 extra missiles hanging under the wings. Once in a great while, somebody will use an extra couple, but I would estimate that that happens less than 1% of the time. Loading them with fewer missiles doesn't seem to resolve it, nor does reordering them to attack their target. Since they can deploy those reserve munitions, and do so on occasion, and because I haven't seen any other mention of this on the forums, I'm thinking that there must be some order I'm giving or not giving that's causing it. I understand if they're trying to save me money by using guns whenever possible, but it tends to lead to long, circling dogfights (not necessarily a bad thing, but still a bit confusing) Also, it seems a bit bizarre that they make superhuman efforts to kill bogeys using their guns, while 5 unused sts missiles hang in the racks. Could this be linked to DF or BA skill? My experience suggests that it doesn't seem to be connected to AI level. Does anyone have any experience with this, or know what I'm doing wrong?

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Earlier in the series (BCM) they used to shoot off all of their missiles in the first five seconds of battle. I used to just take away all of their missiles (unless something nasty was going down) because it was such a drain on the stockpile. I would assume it is linked to their AI and skill level though I have never survived in the game long enough to test this.

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I was curious about this phenomenon, so I tried to test it. I actually found that in some cases (not all, and I'm not sure what the distinction is) fighter craft WILL use their reserve munitions if they are given a new target at a significant distance away (i.e. if they have to jump). I haven't done the work yet to isolate what factors are specifically involved though. Halting? Jumping? Selecting a new target? There could be a timer involved too, I suppose. I actually appreciate that pilots don't flush all of their racks as soon as they see a red dot, but I'd like to figure out how to reliably access the second half of their armament load on command.

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I have a feeling that they assign 2 or 3 targets while in a Jump, so as soon as they exit the Jump, they come out blasting with the Missiles.

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I'm not sure I understood that, could you elaborate? It sounds like you think that they're changing their assigned targets during jump, but I'm not sure what difference that would make.

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Sainta, what Darkling is saying is that he thinks they are using as system similar to the FATAL system on your CC.

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I see; thanks for the clarification. I can see how that would make a difference in how they behave following jumps. In this case, however, I've observed fighter assets to expend reserve missiles trying to knock down a fleeing enemy unit (usually a shuttle), so this particular phenomenon might have more to do with range and direction of heading, and/or what the AI fragment governing the FC perceives that the AI fragment governing the target is trying to do. Or it could be something entirely different that just looks like one of these explanations. I hate having to engage in observational learning, it just too damn ambiguous. And yes, I appreciate the irony of a professional scientist disliking empirical research (I thought I'd add that before technocack pointed that out).

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quote:


Originally posted by sainta117:

I've noticed that when my fighter craft are loaded with missiles, they only seem to want to use the first five weapons in the racks. After that, they just fly around with 5 extra missiles hanging under the wings. Once in a great while, somebody will use an extra couple, but I would estimate that that happens less than 1% of the time. Loading them with fewer missiles doesn't seem to resolve it, nor does reordering them to attack their target. Since they can deploy those reserve munitions, and do so on occasion, and because I haven't seen any other mention of this on the forums, I'm thinking that there must be some order I'm giving or not giving that's causing it. I understand if they're trying to save me money by using guns whenever possible, but it tends to lead to long, circling dogfights (not necessarily a bad thing, but still a bit confusing) Also, it seems a bit bizarre that they make superhuman efforts to kill bogeys using their guns, while 5 unused sts missiles hang in the racks. Could this be linked to DF or BA skill? My experience suggests that it doesn't seem to be connected to AI level. Does anyone have any experience with this, or know what I'm doing wrong?


This has already been extensively discussed. Search for missiles or something similar.

The ability to use missiles is dependent on the AI and BA of the pilot. Just because they have missiles, doesn't mean they will use them. Especially since they are most likely to get jammed. The higher the AI, the less likely they are to use missiles in an engagement; so as not to waste them.

quote:


Originally posted by Darkling:

I have a feeling that they assign 2 or 3 targets while in a Jump, so as soon as they exit the Jump, they come out blasting with the Missiles.


No, they don't do that. They only fire if/when they have a valid lock. Just like you.

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Thanks for the info, SC. I'm sorry if this is a duplicate thread, I wasn't able to locate that previous thread even after you told me where to look. I think I have a handle on this issue though, at least at a low level. At least at low levels, the AI seems to use reserve missiles to chase down fleeing craft, particularly shuttles, probably because it calculates that they can't catch them without using missiles. Otherwise, they don't seem to like using them.

If anyone happens to know where the thread the SC is referring to is located, please let me know. I'd love to see what other people have come up with for an explanation.

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My recent experimentation with trying to increase DF and BA has actually provided me with an interesting tidbit of info on this issue. Fighters will also expend their full missile load when bombing grounded cargo pods, but not against live enemies on the ground. What I'm starting to suspect here is that one condition under which pilots will fire those last few missiles is when the enemy target is particularly weak, and can be killed with one or two missile hits. There may be other conditions under which the AI will launch their reserve missiles, but this seems to be one trigger for it.

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Guest Malmaison

Pilots will also use more missiles as their AI increases. Also, there seems to be something to do with type. If the missiles are dumbfire or video tracking.

But then again, it's hard to know what the AI is thinking. Try manning a fighter with your AE, find a hostile target, and then set to AP/AI. First use Vagrants and Analog, then only Vagrants, then only Analog.

9 times outta ten, the AI will use 5 missles and then mainguns. If the CoPilot is over 50 AI, then the target won't last long enough to launch 10 missiles.

Without the AE, pilots over 50 can pretty much kill anything without launching 5 missiles. Below 50 AI, and they launch 5 missiles and then circle around endlessly trying to hit with mainguns.

After awhile they will either kill or be killed...but there is certainly something happening with the DF/BA skills, but I'm at a loss to know what it is.

However YMMV, since nothing in a BC game ever happens the same way twice..there is always something or some stray NPC that can screw up the mix...

[ 09-20-2005, 01:44 AM: Message edited by: Malmaison ]

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quote:


Originally posted by sainta117:

My recent experimentation with trying to increase DF and BA has actually provided me with an interesting tidbit of info on this issue. Fighters will also expend their full missile load when bombing grounded cargo pods, but not against live enemies on the ground. What I'm starting to suspect here is that one condition under which pilots will fire those last few missiles is when the enemy target is particularly weak, and can be killed with one or two missile hits. There may be other conditions under which the AI will launch their reserve missiles, but this seems to be one trigger for it.


Rubbish

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Succinct reply, SC. Was my interpretation rubbish, or do you disagree with my observations? I just reported what I saw. A 50 AI pilot with a 50AI RIO WILL expend 10 missiles reliably against a grounded cargo pod, but not against a SAM site. The interpretation, I grant you, is considerably less concrete, since I'm still trying to understand the phenomenon.

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Which part of rubbish was unclear? Was it the rub or the bish?

I suppose the fact that I quoted the entire excerpt wasn't a clue that I found the entire thing to be rubbish?

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