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jnewl

Need help with fighters

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Can anybody give me any pointers on how to dogfight in this game? I've been playing flight sims for years, but I can't hit a darned thing with these fighters. Even when I'm closing with an enemy in a straight line head-on and I've got him dead in my sights, my shots don't land, while his usually do. What's the secret here?

I spent about a half-hour trying to down a single fighter last night, and when he finally popped I had no energy (or eyesight) left to take on his buddy. I just said screw it and let him kill me.

Also, how come when I use the afterburner to try to get in close, as soon as my finger comes off the button the bogie zips away again? If he can fly so darned fast, why does he only do it when I close with him? Grr.

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I launched my whole load of missiles at him (which was another reason I let the second guy go) and none of them hit. I figure he must have been jamming them, since none of them even tried to curve in his direction. I mainly just kept launching them when I was close, hoping I'd get a lucky hit. Never did.

Also, I was matching speed with him, like the thread you posted suggests. Didn't do any good, other than to allow me to stay with him easier. Like I said, if I tried to use the afterburners to close with him, he'd immediately (and I'm talking immediately) jump back out to 1.5 or 2 clicks, which seemed to be the distance he liked to stay at. What gets me about that is if he's really able to move like that, why didn't he just zip away from me instead of remaining 1.5 clicks away? He could have easily done it. I felt like there was some funny business going on there, but Derek says the AI doesn't cheat, so either it's legit or it's some kind of bug. Anyway, I'm frustrated

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quote:


Originally posted by mudpuppy:

Can anybody give me any pointers on how to dogfight in this game?


  1. The TTL and TLD are your friends. See page 27
  2. Use the Match Designate Target Speed command. See section 7.1 page 134
  3. As Mano said, use missiles to soften and confuse the target first. They'll be busy figuring that out, while you're closing in with guns.
  4. Try not to launch missiles unless you have a valid lock. You should only launch missiles unguided (without a lock) if you are in a head on pass situation and he's not likely to break away in time. I usually do this only when I can literally see the pilot's eyeballs, then I launch and employ evasive (to prevent collision) by either afterburning and rolling in the opposite direction.

quote:


I spent about a half-hour trying to down a single fighter last night, and when he finally popped I had no energy (or eyesight) left to take on his buddy. I just said screw it and let him kill me.

Remember, all pilots are not created equal. They may be created with various AI levels (the higher they are created with, the more trouble you're in)and the longer you piss around with them, the more time you give them to learn. Once that happens, you'll be in a lengthy engagement (as you have discovered) until you're bored - make a mistake - and get killed.

By the same token, they're not invincible and are also likely to make mistakes. Just like you. The trick is do give them a lot of data to process e.g.

  1. launch a missile (whether its likely to hit or not)
  2. fire a continous burst of laser (with your laser set to low strength so that it recharges fasgter).
  3. frequently employ evasive manoevers (this way they keep trying to track you.

Just doing the above three (there are many, many more things you can do e.g. waiting until he's close, then coming to a stop and letting him overshoot, then yaw quickly and feed his rear a missile) will keep a fighter pilot pretty busy and their SA matrix overloaded. The downside is that the faster your machine, the more AI instructions they can process. So, you'd really need to be flooding a high AI opponent a lot of information in order to rattle him/her.

quote:


Also, how come when I use the afterburner to try to get in close, as soon as my finger comes off the button the bogie zips away again? If he can fly so darned fast, why does he only do it when I close with him? Grr.

Thats not whats happening. If you stop the A/B, then you effectively increase the distance between you and him if he's moving at constant velocity.

Also, if you keep firing and he detects laser shots, missiles etc, those have higher priority where SA is concerned, so, he'll keep extending in order to avoid them.

quote:


Originally posted by mudpuppy:

[QB] I launched my whole load of missiles at him (which was another reason I let the second guy go) and none of them hit. I figure he must have been jamming them, since none of them even tried to curve in his direction. I mainly just kept launching them when I was close, hoping I'd get a lucky hit. Never did.


You don't have to figure out if he's jamming or not. You can tell :

  1. His ship TTD will be flashing
  2. His ship info displayed in the CVD will have the EMD indicator lit.

And a missile will fly straight ahead (unguided) if

  1. It is launched without a lock (unguided)
  2. It is jammed. But if it has not self-destructed by the time the EMD jammer stops, it will start to guide.

quote:


What gets me about that is if he's really able to move like that, why didn't he just zip away from me instead of remaining 1.5 clicks away? He could have easily done it. I felt like there was some funny business going on there, but Derek says the AI doesn't cheat, so either it's legit or it's some kind of bug. Anyway, I'm frustrated

There are many, many variables which involve the decision that a pilot can make. They may not seem logical (some won't be, depending on the AI level of the pilot) to you, but thats what mistakes are made of, illogical decisions.

Trust me, they don't cheat - or you'd never, ever win an engagement.

[ 04-17-2003, 02:02 PM: Message edited by: Supreme Cmdr ]

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quote:


Originally posted by Epsilon 5:

the only effective way to kill fighters is to joust them, 7 to 9km apart at most. nuff' said.


Rubbish

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Man..fighter to fighter combat is one of the reasons I stick mainly to capital ship class ships. PTA turrets are the best. Gotta love the Sunflash....if only for that one reason

I tried a couple times to kill another fighter without using missiles and I couldnt hit squat. Perhaps I just need to practice more in light of my last comment but I envy the AI that make it look so easy. I usually end up jousting like EP5 mentioned but will probably attempt my "mouse work" maneuvers in a dogfight sometime.

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Alright, Like SC said.

Heres a checklist for dogfighting.

Match Speeds

Give chase/stay on the enemies rear

try leading the target

!!WARNING!! (no EP will awarded for this weapon!)

A.N.S Weapon Artifact

if all else fails force your enemies to watch the "Anna Nicole Show tm" that should end the problem.

Cheers

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Guest JuanFermin

quote:

Originally posted by ThinkAtomic:

if all else fails force your enemies to watch the "Anna Nicole Show tm" that should end the problem.

That will leave them deaf, blind and stupid and vulnerable to any attack!

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quote:

Originally posted by ThinkAtomic:

!!WARNING!! (no EP will awarded for this weapon!)

A.N.S Weapon Artifact

if all else fails force your enemies to watch the "Anna Nicole Show tm" that should end the problem.

Cheers

LOL! You actually made me spill my drink all over myself with that one!

Thanks, guys, for all the suggestions. I can see that I'm not that far off the mark after all. I just need more practice, which I'm going to get. I'm determined to become proficient at every level in this game.

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I'm starting to improve at dogfighting, at least using missiles first to take out his shields and then the lasers, albeit with less success. I've been firing at the TLD when I can get close enough for it to go green. However, I have noticed it often has a green dot in the center of the box. What does this mean? Is this an optimal condition that I should be trying to achieve? If so, what does it take to get the green dot?

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Another handy little trick is something that can only be done in BC...

Retro-rockets are your friends. If you fly arsed-backward, the other craft will think you are runing away, and will persue with all vigor. Careful timing and clever flying will result in a nice, fat target that stays still right in "front" of you. This is a lasers-only trick, as missles will just make him scared and run off.

'Course, it's always akward if you're blasting away and run backward right into an asteroid.

"Pilot, we usually see damage like that when folks run away. I don't care how many you got, no Medal of Valor."

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Guest Grayfox

ahhh fighter combat...

may my ejecting body crash thru your windshield!

i rarely use missles... ill go in blazin with ecm on, and ill just use the tld... sometimes i forget to use retros and my body, along with the rest of my craft, does go thru the opponents windshield... either that or as a carrier commander, ill hop in a fighter, disable my target then set ramming speed and eject at the last minute and pray i get out in time... and that my ship has enough foward velocity to impact the target with enough force to destroy it...

why do i do this??? i have absoloutely no idea...

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quote:


Originally posted by Grayfox:

why do i do this??? i have absoloutely no idea...


LOL!! Why ask why?

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Guest Private Cyberoket

I'm in a Super cruiser and I use missiles up close for fighters and Lasers for anything else, easy. After capturing a Valkerie Star Station I loged out and was greeted with (no joke) at least 20+ enemy fighters, and with my Hyperdrive at bout 70% I couldn't highlail it out of there, so I had to stay and Fight. After probly half hour I droped "Every last MotherF.... one of them" Pardon my Pulp Fiction French.

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quote:

Originally posted by Private Cyberoket:

I'm in a Super cruiser and I use missiles up close for fighters and Lasers for anything else, easy. After capturing a Valkerie Star Station I loged out and was greeted with (no joke) at least 20+ enemy fighters, and with my Hyperdrive at bout 70% I couldn't highlail it out of there, so I had to stay and Fight. After probly half hour I droped "Every last MotherF.... one of them" Pardon my Pulp Fiction French.

Last time that happened to me (20 fighters), I jumped as soon as my shields got breached and spent 2 hours or so landed on some rock near Obsidia getting repaired.

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Are there any fighters that are just superior at dogfighting, or does it just depend on the pilot?

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quote:

Originally posted by InsurgentKiller:

Are there any fighters that are just superior at dogfighting, or does it just depend on the pilot?

NPC pilots have different AI levels. I find I can take out some easily while others are long battles where I'll have a hard time getting on his six. When you come across a high AI opponent, you really need to mix it up. Throw some missles at him, change the power level of your guns etc. It seems you need to be unpredictable, quite realistic if you think about it.

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