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Racial Profiling - A debate

Guest $iLk

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My only qualms about Ireland is Guiness. Why is it that the Guiness there taste like heaven and the one that we get internationally taste like p*ss.

Oh, how true.

Mind you, the Guiness over here isn't that bad (had a few tonight and thoroughly enjoyed them )

On a more serious note, the IRA, UDA, UVF, INLA etc etc are nothing more than gangsters, and have been so for several years now. They try and maintain this political front to try and justify their existance, when all they are doing is controlling the drug trade. All these 'punishments' they carry out are nothing more than taking out the competition.

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Look at the Taliban for instance, the way they "govern" the country is probably how the IRA would like to govern their people. Basically what they envision as a constitution is that for the l337, laws do not affect them.

For instance rape. In Islam sex before marriege is one heluva big sin which carries a very stiff punishment, what more rape. Yet it is not unknown for the Taliban "soldiers" to rape widows and young girls. I don't have a link for this but more than likely you've heard of this from the news. If the real IRA ever get into power you can use Afghanistan as a template as to how the country will be run.

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I believe the IRA are somewhat more civilized. By a small degree, but more civilized nontheless.

That's just my opinion though. I stand by my argument that if a threat comes from an Arab country - even if they have blond hair blue eyes and a nazi tattoo, they still have a passport. That passport, if legitimate, will signal a pat-down. If illegitimate, they will probably be caught.

Therefore, anyone from Arab country's would be heavier searched. My loophole? It forces Arabs to recruit from a much smaller percentage of their population. And those that they DO recruit have to go through the same procedures as everyone else. If I were to check everyone 100% the same, the Arab country is free to send anyone they want, and even though many will get caught coming through, there is a GREATER chance of at least a few coming through security.

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Hi everyone,

I generally just read these debates and keep my thoughts to myself, so be nice!

I think claims of discrimination on a whole are abused. I think the system is clogged up with a lot of false, unfounded, claims, and people who really need them are being overlooked or not being taken seriously. I think it's a shame that companys have to offer Diversity Training. I think it's worse when a company does not and opens up their management teams to all sorts of discrimination suits. At times, although I beleive it has a purpose, Affimative Action can be a root cause of these types of issues.

In management we have been taught we cannot hire one over another souly on race, sex, religion, etc. We have also been taught to document exact reasons why we may have chose one over the other. I asked the question, how do you prove you picked a man of 31 year old man with great qualifications over a 31 year old pregnant woman with the same qualifications. I was told "try not to get into that situation".......Priceless.

Moving right along. Last week I was in the post office, there was only a handful of people there, which included my son and a friend of mine. A gentleman who appeared to possibly be of Arab decent entered the tiny area. I let him go in front of me, because I was having trouble with a form, he asked for 3 prepaid envelopes. You would have thought he yelled "I have a bomb don't move."

The person I was with approached me quickly and stated sort of loudly, "He just asked for prepaid envelopes." I really didn't see the problem. I told my friend to be quiet and relax. She then stated "How can you be like that we live near the power plant!" The gentleman left. I completed my transaction, as we were leaving my friend started to desribe the guy. She noted his clothes, face, car, and also decided he was doing something devious. I decided he was just a guy on his lunch break who needed some prepaid envelopes. I mean really what do I care if the guy doesn't want to use a conventional stamp. Mabey he's allergic to the glue.

I guess I just find it sad that these thoughts have to pass through our minds.

I also have to confess I do not allow my son to be around when I get the mail and open it, and I am sure to get rid of it and wash before he enteres the room again. I usually wait til he's napping.

I am the type of person who is courteous and smile at everyone I encounter. It's just the way I am. I am not going to stop smiling at certain people because of what they appear to be.

On the other hand I do not feel what happened to this nation and others should be able to happen again.

Because I am lazy, I did not go back to see who wrote of being Hispanic and not looking that way, however if we only profile, say people who appear to be Arabic and miss someone who possibly is but looks Irish, then the profiling would not work. I want what works and if that means that we have to spend a little less time rushing to nowhere to be safe so be it.

If I may also comment on the orange juice senerio, first I have to say "some senerio" second, I would honestly be more apt to open my door to the man described in the bad car than a dressed up white guy in a Jetta (Getta) (whatever).

Ok so there you have it my two cents and then some. Mabey this will explain why I keep quiet. I know it will show I can't spell.

Take Care!


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Originally posted by echo:

I would honestly be more apt to open my door to the man described in the bad car than a dressed up white guy in a Jetta (Getta) (whatever).

Your argument is flawed because:

Jetta = Bad car

And $ilk is right by the way........ I can't believe I just said that.

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Great article, it sort of supports my original thinking of "What makes you so scared, do you think you are that important" I thought that way when this all happened and people in my surrounding area were freaking out.

My nervousness comes from my own ignorance as far as cross contamination and how long this stuff can live. Something I probobly should look into.

Yet as I write this I know I will have a new baby within the next couple of weeks and be busy with both kids, so much so that it probobly won't even cross my mind. Weird huh?

Take care

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I will have a new baby within the next couple of weeks

Yeah me too... although I won't have to put as much effort into delivering it

Yeah the article is a good joke because in all actuality it makes sense.


And $ilk is right by the way........ I can't believe I just said that.


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I'm not gloating... grinno.gif

Actually I had an idea for December's debate... but if anyone else want's to take the helm, by all means...

Anyone have any other comments?

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Originally posted by SmileyMan:

Have a look at
and see if it looks "civilised" to you.

No what he actually meant was that the IRA lets people shave their beards thats all. Well that's their ONLY redeeming factors (if any).....

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I'm sorry that I missed all the fun. I was on vacation and had no access to a computer for a week, and now I'm caught in the AT&T/@home fiasco. I only have a minute or so at work...


affirmative action

Affirmative action was originally intended as a corrective measure to aid groups (African/Americans at the time) that were historically hurt. This meant race was considered in hiring, university acceptance, etc, in order to get the hurt race to be competitive with others. It was not meant to be a carte blanche gimme to any and all minorities. The issue regarding the ending of affirmative action is that after 30 years of it, has the correction taken place by now?


racial profiling

I still maintain that there is a difference between crimes and acts of war. When we speak of the terrorists, we can't think of them as criminals, but as soldiers. Like I said before, soldiers caught out of uniform behind enemy lines are called spies. They used to be summarily executed. During WWII, the underground would routinely blow up bridges, train tracks, supply depots, etc. Were they criminals or warriors? Were they terrorists? Not to the Allies, but perhaps to the Axis. How were they treated when caught? How should we treat members of the Taliban underground who are blowing up our buildings?

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Thanks Echo

You too.

And Mister Smiley Man, please take into account that perhaps you read my post in a glance and didn't see what I meant by it. I said they are MORE civilized than say the Taliban would be.

The IRA from my understanding is using terror just as the Taliban is, however they are not quite as... strict when it comes to culture. They are stricter than most cultures, but not quite so bad as the Taliban.

I'm not even gonna say much about the IRA except that I don't believe they are right and I think that if you had to choose a lesser of two evils I would pick IRA over Taliban. Take that for what it's worth.

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Not trying to offend, Mister $ilk, just hanging out a different point of view. And I did read your post very carefully.

I don't think you can have "grades" of un/civilised when it comes to terrorists. Killing/terrorising other people, hiding behind a religious or political motive to justify the killings, is just plain wrong.

So what if one group behaves in one way, and another in a different way. The arguments that these people use never stand up to much scrutiny, but they don't need to, because mob rule, peer pressure, and animal instincts take over very quickly. Nazi Germany was effectively what happened when a group that we would now call terrorists gained enough critical mass to obtain government. People joined the Nazi Party because the alternative was horrific. I doubt many people actually believed that killing Jews would end their particular miseries. But what they did believe in was self-preservation.

A very rough analogy can therefore be drawn with Afghanistan under the Taleban. I doubt that the people who had previously worked in a relatively modern country which allowed women in jeans and miniskirts to work and go to university, all of a sudden said "What was I thinking? The sight of even the tiniest part of a woman's body is so provocative that they must be covered from head to foot lest I feel lustful thoughts". But when someone points a gun at you, or your family, and tells you to think that way, then only the very strongest people will make their stand. they think "It'll blow over soon and we can get back to normal". But it didn't blow over in Germany, or in Afghanistan, and all of a sudden it becomes accepted.

The point I am trying to get across (very badly, I admit) is that since all terrorists are effectively the same, ie bullying mobs, then it makes no sense to differentiate between them in terms of civilisation.



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Am I racist? No... Do I myself look at ANY particular person or people differently? Yes...I look at the middle eastern people alot differently, No one in particular, Do I myself profile? Yes... And I also carry an AR-15(Scoped) with a 30 rd mag and a telescoping stock in my truck now, regardless of where I go, its loaded and I would use it...If I seen a middle eastern person acting really strange...Yes I would pay closer attn, I do not watch these particular people because I think they are terrorists, I wonder sometimes... Are they watching other Americans? Thinking... Is this guy going to flip out because of what a middle eastern person/group did? Well...I personally have layed beside these people and fired live automatic weapons, and they had my full trust, so that is not it...What is it? This is.... We as a country realised that we are in fact vunerable to attack, a sneaky attack, but very effective, and because of the ways of the few, I am now more alert to this particular race of people, In the distant future I hope that my son/daughter does not feel threatened like I do today, I can only hope that one day, they themselves do not feel it neccisary to carry an assult rifle with them wherever they go, and I hope, that they unlike me, would think twice about using that weapon in particular against someone else... Maybe it is my military service that helped me think that way, but in the end, My thoughts are my thoughts, my actions I am sole resposible for, and my life, will go on, knowing that today I have lived, tomorrow is uncertain, and yesterday wasa good day because I held the people I love....

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I'm a Bad American. This pretty much sums it up for me. I like big trucks, big boats, big houses, and naturally, pretty women.

I believe the money I make belongs to me and my family, not some midlevel governmental functionary with a bad comb-over who wants to give it away to crack addicts squirting out babies.

I don't care about appearing compassionate.

I think playing with toy guns doesn't make you a killer. I believe ignoring your kids and giving them Prozac might.

I think I'm doing better than the homeless.

I don't think being a minority makes you noble or victimized. I have the right not to be tolerant of others because they are different, weird or make me mad. This is my life to live, and not necessarily up to others expectations. I know what SEX is and there are not varying degrees of it.

I don't celebrate Kwanzaa. But if you want to that's fine; I just don't feel like everyone else should have to.

I believe that if you are selling me a Dairy Queen shake, a pack of cigarettes, or hotel room you do it in English. As of matter of fact, if you are an American citizen you should speak English. My uncles and forefathers shouldn't have had to die in vain so you can leave the countries you were born in to come disrespect ours, and make us bend to your will. Get over it.

I think the cops have every right to shoot your sorry butt if you're running from them after they tell you to stop. If you can't understand the word 'freeze' or 'stop'in English, see the previous line.

I don't use the excuse "it's for the children" as a shield for unpopular opinions or actions.

I know how to count votes and I feel much safer letting a machine with no political affiliation do a recount when needed. I know what the definition of lying is, and it isn't based on the word "is"-ever.

I don't think just because you were not born in this country, you qualify for any special loan programs, gov't sponsored bank loans, etc., so you can open a hotel, 7-Eleven, trinket shop, or any thing else, while the indigenous peoples can't get past a high school education because they can't afford it.

I didn't take the initiative in inventing the Internet. I thought the Taco Bell dog was funny.

I want them to bring back safe and sane fireworks.

I believe no one ever died because of something Ozzy Osbourne, Ice-T or Marilyn Manson sang, but that doesn't mean I want to listen to that crap from someone else's car when I'm stopped at a red light. But I respect your right to.

I think that being a student doesn't give you any more enlightenment than working at Blockbuster or Jack In The Box.

I don't want to eat or drink anything with the words light, lite or fat-free on the package.

Our soldiers did not go to some foreign country and risk their lives in vain and defend our Constitution so that decades later you can tell me it's a living document ever changing and is open to interpretation. The guys who wrote it were light years ahead of anyone today, and they meant what they said - now leave the document alone, or there's going to be trouble.

I don't hate the rich. I help the poor. I know wrestling is fake. I've never owned, or was a slave, and a large percentage of our forefathers weren't wealthy enough to own one either. Please stop blaming me because some prior white people were idiots - and remember, tons of white, Indian, Chinese, and other races have been enslaved too - it was wrong for every one of them.

I believe a self-righteous liberal Democrat with a cause is more dangerous than a Hell's Angel with an attitude.

I want to know exactly which church is it where the "Reverend" Jessie Jackson preaches; and, what exactly is his job function.

I own a gun, you can own a gun, and any red blooded American should be allowed to own a gun, but if you use it in a crime, then you will serve the time.

I think Bill Gates has every right to keep every penny he made and continue to make more. If it makes you mad, then invent the next operating system that's better and put your name on the building. Ask your buddy that invented the Internet to help you.

I don't believe in hate crime legislation. Even suggesting it makes me mad. You're telling me that someone who is a minority, gay, disabled, another nationality, or otherwise different from the mainstream of this country has more value as a human being that I do as a white male. If someone kills anyone, I'd say that it's a hate crime. We don't need more laws! Let's enforce the ones we already have.

I think turkey bacon, turkey beef, turkey fake anything sucks. I believe that it doesn't take a village to raise a child-it takes a parent with the guts to stand up to the kid and spank his butt and say "NO!" when it's necessary to do so.

I'll admit that the only movie that ever made me cry was Ole Yeller.

I didn't realize Dr. Seuss was a genius until I had a kid.

I will not be frowned upon or be looked down upon or be made to keep silent because I have these beliefs and opinions. I thought this country allowed me that right. I will not conform or compromise just to keep from hurting somebody's feelings. I'm neither angry nor disenfranchised, no matter how desperately the mainstream media would like the world to believe otherwise.

Yes, I guess by some people's definition, I may be a bad American.

But that's tough.

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I agree with most of your points Khan, however about the toy gun thing, consider that you don't want your children learning irresponsible bad gun habits like pointing at things they don't intend to shoot. Responsible gun learning I believe means that I will never give my son a toy gun, but when he get's older (8 or 9) I will start teaching him about guns and safety.

A good book you ought to pick up is Boston on Guns and Courage. I don't think much is wrong with toy guns, because I had them, and I think perhaps Paintball is okay, but you don't want your youngest child to be pointing away with an orange cap gun and find a real gun and be inclined to point it the same way. That's just my opinion, as it's a small problem but I think it's a useful tool to instill gun safety in your children.

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Agreed on that part of things, the way my father taught me about firearms is taking me squirrel hunting, when I shot my first squirrel I learned that a gun will end a life, and take something from it that I cannot give back or undo, I have no intentions of teaching him to aim a gun(Toy or not) at anyone unless he intends to use it, hence the squirrel hunting, Funny thing is, I used to eat squirrels before I shot one.

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  • 3 weeks later...


He boarded the plane without luggage or additional identification and was apparently traveling alone.

Like I said earlier in this very same thread. Any caucasian man fitting this description. Those of Middle Eastern descent being MORE likely.

All this proves that supports me is that it wasn't a black person or other person that hasn't fit the description of your everyday hijacker.

He also seemed like a dumbass considering he didn't have professional knowledge or the materials to do any damage with the explosive. He wasn't all that big of a threat considering that his explosive was pretty much harmless.

Something like this could have been on a middle eastern man as well and no one would have known to check the shoes. And considering if it HAD been a middle eastern man he would have been subdued as well and his explosive harmless.

In other words - this proves nothing either way, other than what I've already stated.

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As a matter of fact, the Yahoo story is wrong. Have a look at our perpetrator.

Either way, it doesn't prove for or against racial profiling.


Although he appears middle eastern to me...

[ 12-23-2001: Message edited by: $iLk ]

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