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quote:

Originally posted by Grizzle:

quote:

Originally posted by $iLk:

quote:

If more people believed in God and Bush, this miserable world would be a better place.

You are right on one account at least


On the contrary, if more people placed faith in themselves the world would also be a better place.
I dunno, last time I checked that was a major reason the world was going down the crapper.

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Guest $iLk

quote:

I dunno, last time I checked that was a major reason the world was going down the crapper.

Exactly... from personal experience as well.

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quote:

On the contrary, if more people placed faith in themselves the world would also be a better place.

That shouldn't be a contrary position, but rather, a complementary one.

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quote:

Originally posted by Grizzle:

On the contrary, if more people placed faith in themselves the world would also be a better place.

OK, let's see you are born and think only of yourself. As you grow up, if your parents do a good job, they will teach you that YOU are not the center of the Universe, but that you have a responsibility to others. Why, because this is the essence of what God says. Instead too many parents give their kids everything they want because they want their kids to "feel good about themselves" and have more "Self confidence" so to this end we have things like Enron. Insider trading. Unbridled infidelity and corruption. Why, because at their core, people are evil, and MUST be taught to be good. People tend to only think of themselves and what they want. Most people don't care about the people they are surrounded by, unless it benefits them somehow. The less that people put faith in themselves and the more they put in God, the better off we all are.

The other day I saw a show with Salley or Rickey Lake or something and there were these mothers with kids that beat them, swore at them smoked, stole, drank, everything. Why, all these mothers claimed to give their kids everything, but their kids only resented them and treated them worse! What these little horrors needed was dicipline, but instead the parents wanted to "let them find thier own way" It's nuts, they've abdicated their jobs as parents and now have little horrors as a consequence. Let's see here's a ten year old pulling her moms hair and slapping her. Does that little kid have self confidence or what! Does she believe in herself? YOU BET! Does she have faith in her abilities to get what she wants? OH YEAH!

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Republican and conservative, or at least Republican until another, more centered group has a snowballs chance of winning an election. I grew up in a middle class family that reached upper middle class before I graduated highschool in a very small town in Texas. But, I think that none of that really had as much influence as did just watching and reading for myself.

Jag has a perfect point and one that I've been preaching forever. History has all the lessons we'll ever need to learn. If we'd learn to pay attention to those lessons that, in most cases, people spilled blood to prove we'd be in a lot better shape.

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quote:

Originally posted by Darkling:

The less that people put faith in themselves and the more they put in God, the better off we all are.

Ok. So exactly *which* God should we all be placing our faith in?

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There is only ONE god though

The god that the Japanese worship is the same god we worship, the god that the iraq's worship is the same god we worship

There is only ONE god in this universe, yet mainy people think there are more

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quote:

Originally posted by Kalshion:

There is only ONE god though

The god that the Japanese worship is the same god we worship, the god that the iraq's worship is the same god we worship

There is only ONE god in this universe, yet mainy people think there are more

I agree, my point being how is placing faith in God going to solve our problems and make the world a better place if we can't agree on who God is?

Anyway, this is a political thread, back on topic.

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Well, I am now a Republican for the most part.

I am ashamed to say I voted for Clinton the first time, but I saw the error of my ways and voted against him the second time.

In my late teens and early twenties I was pretty liberal. But as I get older (I am 30 now) I see what harm the liberal mindset causes us. So, now I am pretty conservative in everything.

I think the immigration problem is really hurting this country.

I am against affirmative action as I think that it actually hurts minorites in the long run as well as the job market in the short term. I am pro death-penalty. And I think we need a stronger justice system instead of giving the criminals a slap on the wrist everytime. I am a member of the NRA and I think that it is our RIGHT to keep and bear arms and taking that right away from us it the first step toward an end to our freedom.

I am not a christian so I tend to veer away from alot of the faith based things that some of the conservative espouse, I believe we should have freedom to choose and practice our religion in the privacy of our homes and churches and that it should NOT be pushed upon us with SCHOOL SPONSERED prayer in schools.

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Guest Rycherd

Libertarian

Conservative or Liberal...that's a tough one.Depends on the issue.Pro legalization,gun,death penalty,choice. I agree with Elric on the immigration and affirmative action issues.Also,it is not only our right to keep and bear arms but our DUTY.Who else but 'We,the People' can save us from our own government?

I must really take exception with everyone who says "I'll support a 3rd party when they have a chance at winning',that's like saying "I'll turn on the stove when the pot gets hot enough".

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quote:

Originally posted by Rycherd:

Libertarian

Conservative or Liberal...that's a tough one.Depends on the issue.Pro legalization,gun,death penalty,choice. I agree with Elric on the immigration and affirmative action issues.Also,it is not only our right to keep and bear arms but our DUTY.Who else but 'We,the People' can save us from our own government?

I must really take exception with everyone who says "I'll support a 3rd party when they have a chance at winning',that's like saying "I'll turn on the stove when the pot gets hot enough".

Normally I would agree with your last sentiment, but the fact is, that if I vote for a third party, I am voting for the Democrat, because I am taking away my vote from the republican candidate.

I voted for Perot, and Clinton got in office because of it, I will NEVER do that again.

It is called flushing my vote down the toilet and getting someone in office that I despised.

When the Democratic party destroys itself, as it seems determined to do, then a viable third party can come in and replace it, if that party is a constitutionalist party, then I will vote for it, otherwise, I will continue to vote Republican.

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Guest Rycherd

quote:

Originally posted by Jaguar:

Normally I would agree with your last sentiment, but the fact is, that if I vote for a third party, I am voting for the Democrat, because I am taking away my vote from the republican candidate.

I voted for Perot, and Clinton got in office because of it, I will NEVER do that again.

It is called flushing my vote down the toilet and getting someone in office that I despised.


Of course Perot sucked votes away from the GOP,look where he came from...Big Corp...he was a business man.He spouted the kind of rhetoric that Republicans wanted to hear and the frightened Democrats united behind Clinton.

Maybe I'm just paranoid but I look back on the Perot fiasco as a way to discourage 3rd party voters from voting 3rd parties.It was designed to fail. I would have voted for him,untill I wacthed a VP-candidate debate.Listening to Perot's VP pick I had the impression the he was already well down the road to mental incompetance,his statements were rambling and at times incoherant.I don't think he would have lasted a whole term.

This time it's the DNC that's worried.A recent NPR story on the possibility of Nader running has them quite twitterpated,quoting a source in the DNC who wished to remain annonymous, (I paraphrase) "If Nader runs we are in trouble.He will siphon too many votes away from our candidate".

Maybe it's an age thing or a class/caste thing,or maybe it was my upbringing (my parents were Activist Hippies back in the day)...but there are 2 ways to flush a vote down the toilet: Vote for someone you don't like because you don't like the other guy even more and Not voting at all.

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I'm a libertarian, how I became that was a bit strange.

Basically I've always believed in the right for a person to choose what they want for themselves as long as it does not cause direct physical harm to another within reason.

So for instance, while I believe murder should be illegal, I don't believe smoking marijuana in your own home should be illegal.

I'd found myself at odds with the policies of both the democrat and republican parties, and after reviewing both contemporary and historical examples, I was sure I didn't fit into either of those parties. My stance on intellectual property especially put me in that circumstance.

However, a few years back on a forum I went to I met someone who told me about the libertarian party and what it stood for. I looked it up and did some research, I found myself in full agreement with almost all of its views. It was then that I decided the libertarian party was definitely the party that I wanted to be a part of.

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quote:

Originally posted by Elric_Sloan:

I think the immigration problem is really hurting this country.

Well the Indians say you should go back to where you came from then.

It makes me laugh when I see European decendants (I don't know you, but I know you are) complain about immigration, as if their families where always here. Let me clue you in, Immigration helps this country, it's one of the things that makes it stronger. Immigrants come here, work hard to make a better life for themselves, take on jobs that you will never take (such as take out your garbage, clean your office, and wipe your Grandma's behind in the nursing home) but somehow these people are a "problem". My parents came here from the Dominican Republic. After my father left my Mom, we ended up on Welfare for a few years, but eventually my Mom (after going to back to school) got a decent job, bought a couple of run down buildings, remodeled them and then that was it, we were well off. Her kids have continued the tradition of improvement and all 4 of my brothers and sisters have our own businesses, and between the 5 of us we employ 47 people. As a matter of fact, one of my Sisters was going to be personally honored by President Bush for her work in helping the redevelopement of Real Estate in Lawrence MA. and she's a Democrat! (Unfortunately the Gala was cancelled, because of 9/11).

Americans seem to have this strange tradition of killing most of their kids (over a million abortions a year) and so if it wasn't for us Immigrants, the population here would slowly die out, then who would buy the homes, cars, furniture and take care of your elderly. Immigration isn't a problem, it needs to be expanded.

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quote:

Originally posted by Darkling:

quote:

Originally posted by Elric_Sloan:

I think the immigration problem is really hurting this country.

Well the Indians say you should go back to where you came from then.

It makes me laugh when I see European decendants (I don't know you, but I know you are) complain about immigration, as if their families where always here. Let me clue you in, Immigration helps this country, it's one of the things that makes it stronger. Immigrants come here, work hard to make a better life for themselves, take on jobs that you will never take (such as take out your garbage, clean your office, and wipe your Grandma's behind in the nursing home) but somehow these people are a "problem". My parents came here from the Dominican Republic. After my father left my Mom, we ended up on Welfare for a few years, but eventually my Mom (after going to back to school) got a decent job, bought a couple of run down buildings, remodeled them and then that was it, we were well off. Her kids have continued the tradition of improvement and all 4 of my brothers and sisters have our own businesses, and between the 5 of us we employ 47 people. As a matter of fact, one of my Sisters was going to be personally honored by President Bush for her work in helping the redevelopement of Real Estate in Lawrence MA. and she's a Democrat! (Unfortunately the Gala was cancelled, because of 9/11).

Americans seem to have this strange tradition of killing most of their kids (over a million abortions a year) and so if it wasn't for us Immigrants, the population here would slowly die out, then who would buy the homes, cars, furniture and take care of your elderly. Immigration isn't a problem, it needs to be expanded.


I think, and I hope that he was talking about illegal immigration.

Illegal immigration is hurting this country, immigration itself, LEGAL immigration helps this country. Although, I believe, that immigrants need to change to this culture, it is NOT our responsibility to change for them.

If you move to this country, it is your responsibility to learn the language and customs etc of this country and change yourself.

The US does not have to make allowances for your language or your cultural differences.

That is my opinion anyway.

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A financial board I read wanders all over the place much like this one. The subject of immigration both legal and illegal came up. The best thing I ever read was a comment by one poster.

"We're full bub. Go back home."

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quote:

Originally posted by Jaguar:

I think, and I hope that he was talking about illegal immigration.

Illegal immigration is hurting this country, immigration itself, LEGAL immigration helps this country.

Well, there's a huge difference between Legal & Illegal Immigration, he didn't say illegal and I've met MANY people that want our borders closed off, period.

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quote:

Originally posted by Darkling:

Well, there's a huge difference between Legal & Illegal Immigration, he didn't say illegal and I've met MANY people that want our borders closed off, period.

Yes, I have seen that too, and it really is sad as far as I am concerned.

Hey, you want to be free, do it in your country.

I think that that is a crock, if someone wants to move to this country legally, and they have some skill or something to offer, then by all means, let them come here.

BUT, if they don't have a skill, if they are NOT employable, if all they are gonna do is go on the dole, Welfare etc, then they stay where they are.

Most of the LEGAL immigrants that I have met and known are some of the hardest working people that I have ever met.

When I lived in Oregon, we had a little minimart down the street, run by a Vietnamese family. They lived upstairs in a really nice 1500 sq ft apartment, and he and his wife worked 12-15 hour days, 6 days a week, and they hired a person to come in and work 8 hours on Sunday.

It started out when the whole family was in Vietnam, they put all of their money together, and sent their eldest son off to the US, then when he got here, he started working at a minimart, and still sent a little bit of money home. 1 year later, he bought the minimart, payed for a plane ticket for his family and they came, then his next brother got on a plane and came over, they then worked the one minimart until they could buy the brother one of his own and so on and so forth. In 5 years, they owned 5 minimarts, and the ENTIRE family was living in the United States.

Yes, you HAVE to respect that kind of energy and perseverance. Legal immigration is a wonderful thing.... As far as I am concerned....

Wow, something else we agree on.....

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