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Wolferz

Here Come Da Draft! Uh oh!

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quote:


Originally posted by Epsilon 5:

Bah even if there was a draft I'd never survive basic and I'm quite serious.

Is there a part of the military (engineering?) where you don't have to go through basic? just curious.


Ehhhh NOPE!

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Basic training in the United States Military is just what it says it is. Taught from the SMCT in the army.

That's Soldiers Manual of Common Tasks for our nomenclature challenged friends

Basic prepares every soldier for the task of making war by building your body to withstand the rigors of combat and building your mind with the knowledge needed to carry out the task.

As a volunteer in today's Army you get to pick a specialty. If you are drafted you will be given one based on your ASVAB score.(Armed Services Vocational Aptitude Battery)

Upon graduating basic you are sent to an A-School (Advanced training) to learn your specific specialty. Mine was the operation of heavy equipment, 62-E(cho), which also included a week of 12-Bravo) Combat Engineer training, thus my specialty was known as 62-E(verything).

Not only could I drive heavy junk; (Bulldozers, Bucketloaders, Panscrapers, and Roadgraders and the trucks to carry them) I could also lay and remove mines, use explosives, lay bridges, and a host of other 12Bravo Grunt things.

Combat Engineers are some of the most important units on a battlefield. Not as glamorous as flying Attack Choppers or driving Tanks, but hey, somebody has to do it. Our motto was...

" If noone else, We."

LAY HOLD! HEAVE!

I was extremely proud when the US letters were removed and the Engineer symbol;(a castle) was pinned to my left lapel.

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I was in marching band. Does that count? I can left face, right face, about face, march 8 to 5, and parade rest. Oh and I can mark time as well. We high stepped that though. I think military just moves their knees a little.

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I know someone i play with is an M1A1 tank commander .. he's either a sergeant or a staff sergeant, something like that... he went in iraq for a year and says he saw too much

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quote:


Originally posted by Cmdr Chavik:

I was in marching band. Does that count? I can left face, right face, about face, march 8 to 5, and parade rest. Oh and I can mark time as well. We high stepped that though. I think military just moves their knees a little.


Can you Razzle Dazzle Halt?

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Going to Iraq is NOT "dying for your country". It is a support misssion for corporate america and the current administration who have ties to not only the Bin Laden family but also Saudi oil. Can anybody explain why Bin Laden family members were allowed to leave this country on September 13, 2001? Anyone? ....Anyone?.......Bueller???? If you want to die for your country, then die with honor, and not for the fact that your president gave up on trying to find Osama Bin Laden and chose a target he could easily locate.

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Watch it El Che

Bush has done a hell of a lot more for this country than ANY president has since the presidence was formed

You have, no right, to dictate what I can die for here in my country.

Plus your still pretty blinded by the media, where's you're proof that they allowed the family to leave? Huh? Show us the proof please I'd really be interested in seeing it (and no CNN crap, we all know that they lie straught through the teeth and if that's where you got your information *which I bet it is* then I'll know you've been watching to much liberal TV)

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quote:

Watch it El Che

Bush has done a hell of a lot more for this country than ANY president has since the presidence was formed

Even YOU, can't possibly believe that!! kalshion

quote:

You have, no right, to dictate what I can die for here in my country.

Let ME put it this way, then: "You can go kill and be killed, but YOU won't be dying for ME, and MY country. My America has a whole different view as to what is termed offensive agression, and what is termed defence" You would be DYING for your AMERIKA."

Nothing personal kalshion, But there are literally hoardes of americans, who feel the way I do. This country IS divided almost "right down the middle" on the whole war thing. And EACH of us on this side, see a "blind LYNCH mob mentality", following this President's methodology.

Please, Excuse those of us, who would SPIT on him; were it legal to do so.

[ 05-07-2004, 03:35 PM: Message edited by: street ]

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quote:

Originally posted by Kalshion:

Watch it El Che

Plus your still pretty blinded by the media, where's you're proof that they allowed the family to leave? Huh? Show us the proof please I'd really be interested in seeing it (and no CNN crap, we all know that they lie straught through the teeth and if that's where you got your information *which I bet it is* then I'll know you've been watching to much liberal TV)

Is this conservative enough?

[ 05-07-2004, 01:07 PM: Message edited by: El Che ]

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quote:

Is this conservative enough?

@ El Che, Now that's a good one!!! :D

Straight from a conservative publication..LOL!!

I have voted republican for almost 30 years, but when I point out something I disagree with today, I am immediately classified a liberal, and accused of following liberal propoganda....!!

One thing this administration is doing VERY well, and that is undermining the legitimacy of ANY who disagree with THEIR actions, by debasing their character and labeling them ANTI-Patriotic or radically Liberal.

As a REPUBLICAN, I was offended, that my own president would refer to me(and about HALF the American people)in such a way, and the other half would blindly reflect such an opinion.

It literally behooves me, that my fellow countrymen,let alone my own president, has placed such a designation on anyone's head, who DENOUNCES the most horrible and immoral of all crimes toward any.(i.e. KILLING ON A MASS SCALE(i.e. WAR))

It has also really surprised me to see the amount of CONSERVATIVE REPUBLICANS(here in TEXAS), who literally hate everything this Administration has done. In presenting itself, as perfect and blameless. Most EVERY Republican I know, feels betrayed, by this president and many of our peirs.

The sad truth, is that EVERY American should see the betrayal, but many will not see it until it is too late.(IMHO)

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El Chi - No comment, since there is no mension of the administration anywhere

Edit: the only thing that even come's CLOSE is

"Attorney General John Ashcroft "

But that's the only thing, no bush, no administration

@ Street

Nothing personal is right, I just want to have my own right to fight for my country, but I am getting tired of a few people on this board (won't name anyone) who are telling me that I shouldn't or that it's not worth it.

Plus, if it come's to me dieing, then I die for the good of America, for the good of humanity (I know that sounds stupid, but it's what I beleave in)

I know America is going down hill, I know there are some things that this administration has done that are questionable, but I still trust this admin MORE than I trust Kerry. That's why I'm willing to die for Bush and his Administration

Now... would I join the military of Kerry was in office.. no.. why?... WHAT MILITARY?! We won't even HAVE a military once he's in office (fox talked about it that he would cut back on military spending) that's exactly what Clinton did and look where it got us.. an attack on our soil that we had no clue about (the citizens that is)

There are things we have no right to know, there are thing's going on that shouldn't know anything about.

It is sad... that the president and everyone else is above the law, nice try people... but if you want justice you'll have to do it yourself

@ El Chi

I had a question for you.. but it's best reserved for another thread, besides the last time I asked you this question I got hammered in e-mail

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quote:

Originally posted by Kalshion:

Bush has done a hell of a lot more for this country than ANY president has since the presidence was formed


Jag, come on in. I smell some need for history.

You can't actually mean this Kal... Bush by far has done about as much as the average president. Hell, Bush is by far one of the most Active-Negative presidents that I've ever seen, much less read about. Not that he's stuck there too, I also agree with people who say he's got some Active-Positive sides too...

But that doesn't make him a great president. What about Eisenhowser? Can somebody say Washington? Washington alone has done more for this country than any president will possibly EVER do. Lincoln? He ended our civil war and ended slavery.

History gives us a good view on how Bush can be more closely looked at as another Johnson. He's just another average president. Read your friggin history book before you EVER make a comment like that. Not only does it deface some of the greatest men to live, but it also insults the name of the United States Presidency.

Besides, there is always a peaceful resolution to everything. Bush didn't give Saddam a chance to work out a peaceful resolution. We still haven't found WMDs in Iraq, whats to say he was making them. Not Guilty until tried Justly... and that goes for War Crimes as well according to Geneva.

Oh, and if you read the books written by analysts on the 9 11 attacks, then you would realize that it had been building up for years, even before Bush Sr. None of them really cared about it, they we're cocky, what, unfortunately many americans (myself included) tend to be. It was inevitble, it just happened now, and no matter what we do, it will happen again, maybe not by terrorists from the middle east, but maybe from china, europe, Eurasia... It can happen from anywhere, even from our own soil!

{rant} Terrorist has become a racial slur for Middle Easterners now... my neighbors, one of who is from Pakistan, were called terrorists because they told some boys to get off their lawn because they had just sprayed it with pesticide... Arrg! Its soooo annoying how this has turned into a racist sh**war against Muslims and people from the middle east!{/rant}

I've taken this topic off enough...

Oh, and here's some evidence about Bin Laden's family being allowed to leave; straight from UPI... http://www.ratical.org/ratville/CAH/BinLadenFam.html

[ 05-08-2004, 01:13 AM: Message edited by: Cmdr. WeeGee ]

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Unfortaunity... that much I DIDN'T know about Washinton, or Eisenhower. Thank you for the history lesson, parhaps you can teach it the one's who created our HISTORY books? Cause NONE of that information is present in those books (in fact, quite the opposite, it DOWNGRADE'S those presidents)

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Guest

Well, I will say this...

The greatest president of this century would be Ronald Reagan.

President Reagan freed more people then any person in the entire history of the world.

He also created the most robust and strongest economy we have ever had, and did his damndest to shrink government, and he would have gotten away with it if the Democrats hadn't controlled both the senate and the house.

for the last 20 years, we have been living his economic legacy, and for the last 3 or so, we have been living Clintons.

Bush is NOT Reagan, and some of the crap he has pulled just pisses me off. No child left behind, prescription drugs, etc, etc.

911 was a major chink in what Bush was trying to accomplish, but the man is really beginning to irk me with his domestic agenda.

Fight the terrorists in Iraq, I am ALL for it, but quit making war on my childrens wallets!!

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quote:

The greatest president of this century would be Ronald Reagan.

Incorrect. That would be last century.

quote:

President Reagan freed more people then any person in the entire history of the world.

Not gonna touch that.

quote:

He also created the most robust and strongest economy we have ever had

He ceratinly was feel good. Too bad nothing trickled down to me.

quote:

and did his damndest to shrink government,

Perhaps. I'll take your word in that.

quote:

and he would have gotten away with it if the Democrats hadn't controlled both the senate and the house.

I tend to feel it's best when there is contention in the government. No one can get way with too much.

quote:

for the last 20 years, we have been living his economic legacy,

quote:

and for the last 3 or so, we have been living Clintons.


I have seen you post up to a 12 year time frame for a president's economic policies to take effect. Using 12 years we are just coming out of Reagan's recessions. And it will be six more years before we see what Clinton did.

I will give you this. Reagan certainly was feel good for the time. I beleived in him until nothing trickled down to me. A good attitude can certainly jump start the economy by exciting businessmen. However, as you have stated it is the budgetary policies that take longer to kick in. Therefore you have a duality in economics that I personally do not have the ability to decode.

Anything new on the draft stuff?

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Chavik said:

quote:


Anything new on the draft stuff?

See link in first post. Both bills,HR-163 & S-89) have been sent to the DoD for their input. Most likely for budget consideration and recomendations.

This draft, as I see it is to fill empty ranks in the Coast Guard as well as the other branches of service, but also to provide cheaper airport security with individuals armed and trained by Uncle Sam. So, instead of the airlines footing the bill for security, it will be tossed on the backs of the taxpayers.

Oh, I almost forgot, Bush needs a fully stocked SS. And I'm not talking Secret Service.

Now, Kal, before you go off the deep end and take insult with my comments about Mr Bush,You seem enamored with the man,Please, Don't get frazzled. He ain't worth it.

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quote:

Bush is NOT Reagan, and some of the crap he has pulled just pisses me off. No child left behind, prescription drugs, etc, etc.

So, judge your one of those people who think the, No Child Shall Be Left Behind Law, was created by Bush?

If you are... your DEAD wrong, Hilary was the one who created this stupid Law. And since the democrates still control the Senate and House there's little that bush can do against this Law (again, Bush is only a puppet, the Democrats are the one's who control this Nation)

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Nope no draft. No way no how.

At least that's what they are saying. We're only increasing the staff, increasing the funds, and reviewing records, but nope we're not gonna have a draft.

Oh well. Interesting article. Google pulled up the link and it gets you the first page. To read page two you have to be registered.

I think somebody posted a "cheater" site where you could get passwords without registering.

Hmmm, previewing the post the link takes you straight to the registration page.

Military Draft? Official Denials Leave Skeptics

Paste the above into Google and click search. That should work if you aren't registered.

Edit again:

quote:

Seeking to blunt public speculation, the Web site of the Selective Service System carries a long notice saying in part that "both the president and secretary of defense have stated on more than one occasion that there is no need for a draft for the war on terrorism or any likely contingency, such as Iraq."

"Additionally," the notice says, "the Congress has not acted on any proposed legislation to reinstate the draft."

"The bottom line," said Dan Amon, a spokesman for the Selective Service System, "is it would take an act of Congress because we could not turn it on ourselves. And there is no mood or sentiment in Congress whatsoever for the draft."

Polls show there is little public sentiment for it either, no small consideration in the Congressional thinking. In a recent New York Times/CBS News poll, 70 percent of those surveyed were against reinstating the draft, and the opposition was shared almost equally among Democrats, Republicans and independents.

The speculation was initially spurred last year when the Selective Service System began trying to fill vacancies on local draft boards. That was accompanied by reports that the agency had received an extra $28 million in its budget.

But Mr. Amon said the draft board recruitment effort had been undertaken because of the expiration of the 20-year terms of members appointed after President Jimmy Carter re-established registration in 1980. And the $28 million was the agency's regular budget, cut to $26 million by Congress, he said.


Note the phrase Congress has not ACTED on any legislation. The legislation is there they just haven't done anything with it.

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Nope, in light of recent news, there is no need to reinstate the draft, at least not right away.

Instead they are conscripting servicemembers who have satisfied their TOS and also recalling servicemembers who have already seperated but, haven't reached the end of their mandatory six year obligation.

In essence, troops are being drafted from current stocks of volunteers.

That's right little Timmy, Unkie Sam still owns you. And you volunteered, so, Sueing for "Breach of Contract.?" Fergedaboutit.

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@ Jaguar

Don't forget amnesty. Thats one of the worst appeasments he has attempted. I am pleasantly surprised he has stood his ground on the whole gay marriage thing though.

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quote:

since the democrates still control the Senate and House there's little that bush can do against this Law (again, Bush is only a puppet, the Democrats are the one's who control this Nation)

I cannot believe, anyone thinks this, today. Do you really believe, the part about the democrats in control?

Just curious.

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Guest

The draft resolution, which was put up by the Democrats in order to demonize the Republicans and Bush, has been SOUNDLY defeated.

It was brought to the floor by the Republicans, and kicked in it's butt.

There is no longer a bill for a draft, there will be NO draft, and if anyone says otherwise, they are lying. End of story....

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Why shouldnt the republicans kick it in the butt, when they can manipulate a back door draft,as mentioned by wolferz :through the present volunteers; thus, insuring only the middle and lower class kids get killed; all the while creating a temporary and artificial supply pool of availiable combatants.

quote:

Instead they are conscripting servicemembers who have satisfied their TOS and also recalling servicemembers who have already seperated but, haven't reached the end of their mandatory six year obligation.

In essence, troops are being drafted from current stocks of volunteers.

this is absolute fact:

This war, will be going on for a LONG LONG time, regardless who wins, and the number of wounded is far beyond the mere 1000 killed.

It will be interesting, to see how long we will be able to sustain the damage to well bodied american boys, without instituting some form of formal draft.

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