Jump to content
3000AD Forums
Sign in to follow this  
Avenger2099

Vietnam war

Recommended Posts

I think this war is worth debating especially with all the parelels between it and Iraq and I have to do a 12 page report on it(my choice). More specificaly whether or not we could have won so if you debate anything please post reference for me to use. It's due in about 9 days but this interests me all the same. Muchos Gracias, Merci, Thank you and all that.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest

There is NOTHING in common between Vietnam and Iraq, NOTHING whatsoever.

The question is intellectually vacuous.

Vietnam was a political war, Iraq is a war in self defense, whether people wish to see it that way or not.

The Democrats are trying to create a political war in Iraq, and turn it into another Vietnam, but they are political opportunists, nothing more.

Vietnam, and Iraq, and the wars we have fought and the war we are fighting have NOTHING in common whatsoever.

I will say it again, there are NO parrallels between the war in Vietnam and the War in Iraq...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest

Now, on to your question about Vietnam, and could we have won it.

YES, we could have won it, in a heartbeat, but again, the same people that are trying to hold us back now, were holding us back then, mainly Ted Kennedy and his treasonous helpers in the Democratic party.

We were there originally to help the South Vietnamese with training, intelligence, weapons and support. We began sending troops when China got involved and started helping the North Vietnamese directly. We had to respond.

It was a cold war, war, between us and China, only Vietnam was the little guy caught in the middle.

We began sending troops, and the same old suspects, the leftist socialist in this country decided that it wasn't proper for us to help out.

When we pulled out, we also pulled ALL support for the South Vietnamese Army with us.

Ted Kennedy and the usual leftists in the Democratic party cut ALL support, weapons, medical, etc.

If we had fought this war like a real war, we would have kicked the North Vietnamese clear into China, but the politicians played political games, just as they are attempting with this war.

Once we go to war, the military needs a free hand to win it, otherwise the politicians, in order to gain political power, will do whatever they can, to demoralize and destroy the militaries proper role in WINNING.

The political games that the politicians and the media are playing might lead you to believe that Vietnam and Iraq have things in common, but they absolutely do not, except that the usual suspects are playing their political games to gain political power.

Here's a Link for you from a military view...

And another

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This particular time I don't think you should have done his research for him.

Something not right.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest

He's a kid who has been indoctrinated by the public school system.

He would have seen what his teachers want him to see, time to show him what the military says about it.

He needs to know what the REAL world is like before he hits it, or it's gonna hit him, and HARD!!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

He has a report due in 9 days. He is using this forum for his research. Not good. Q:How do you use the PTA? A: RTFM. Same thing

I am having a tough time with this one. If I was in say 10th grade I would certainly ask my parents, friends, and associates (like you have associates in 10th grade) their opinion. I would listen to what they had to say and perhaps even read books they suggested.

Perhaps you are more correct this time.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Actually the main reason I started this thread was because Vietnam intrests me greatly the fact that i have a twelve page report due is mainly coincidence. Also I would like to state that Vietnam was destined to become political because the Vietnamese wanted so badly to be free. We came in there with a WWII state of mind. You know we beat them militarily and they give up. But I dont think the Vietnamese liked that idea. Because we came in and fought and killed with big guns the entire population stood against us. Recently I learned of a Project Pheonix started at about 1968 which was about infiltrating the communist ranks and destroying it from the inside. It also could have taken till 2010. If we had started this operation early I think we could have Truely won but with the approach we used im not so sure. I thik the war would have lasted for a much longer time if we had not pulled out. But then again I havent been in the military and I am publicly schooled although I dont think mine is so bad. They dont even make us stand for the pledge. But thats just my opinion and it could just be Wisconsin. Which i live in by the way.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

quote:

I am publicly schooled although I dont think mine is so bad.

Then perhaps you may enjoy this thread. I've been biting my tongue in that one (maybe I should post this there instead) but if you're intelligent and don't absorb everything they throw at you like a mindless sponge then I think you will avoid all the pitfalls mentioned.

If you ARE a mindless sponge then you deserve what you get. Up to and including being a drone for the industrio-political machine.

quote:

We came in there with a WWII state of mind. You know we beat them militarily and they give up. But I dont think the Vietnamese liked that idea.

That last sentence strikes me funny.

I remember news footage when Vietnam Vets came home but that's about it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yeah I kinda ment that to be alittle funny thats how I am. And dont worry I'm not a mindless sponge the only teacher i listen to is my social studies teacher and thats beacuse i truly think hes non partisen. He's also a vietnam vet so i respect him amazingly... I tend to respect vietnam vet just because of the whole welcome home we hate you now bits I've read about.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest rtoolooze

Quote,

"If we had fought this war like a real war, we would have kicked the North Vietnamese clear into China, but the politicians played political games"

While I don't discuss political views and such, (I think a 5 year old knows more about politics than I do) Jaguar is completly right on this one. Politicians tied the hands of the military and the rest is history. Obviously it goes much deeper than that, (the details) however, that simple statement, (from Jag) about sums it up in a nut shell.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I can tell you that the war in Iraq is NOT a war of self-defense. That has been proven by the fact that there were no "weapons of mass destruction". And here is where you get your connection...it is EXTREMELY political!!! Our country went to war with Iraq under the assumption that Iraq had weapons of mass destruction, which obviously they do not. Therefore they were not a threat to this country and therefore it is not a defensive war at all. It is similar to the Vietnam war in respect to the fact that we are constantly losing valuable american lives over there every day for no reason other than our arrogant insistence on policing the entire world. Remember, no matter what, that EVERY life is precious.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

quote:


Originally posted by Avenger2099:

I think this war is worth debating especially with all the parelels between it and Iraq and I have to do a 12 page report on it(my choice). More specificaly whether or not we could have won so if you debate anything please post reference for me to use. It's due in about 9 days but this interests me all the same. Muchos Gracias, Merci, Thank you and all that.


I know this may be a little late but, Any Treatise written regarding the Vietnam conflict would be sorely incomplete if it didn't include the pre-history leading up to US involvement.

I would be most interested in reading your report before you turn it in.

The difficulties of prosecuting a military action in a country where friend or foe was almost impossible to discern was grossly overlooked.

I have heard hair raising stories of some of the nasty little tricks the NVA and their supporters liked to pull, Like riding a bicycle alongside a busload of troops who had just arrived and tossing a grenade through an open window.

The military sought to prevent this by installing chicken wire over the windows.

All the better for the enemy who countered this by installing hooks on the grenades.

The chicken wire only created extra shrapnel.

Then there was the Viet Cong, who loved setting booby traps. It's Strictly against the Geneva Convention to utilize such tactics. But is war ever conventional? Our troops reciprocated, although we won't say anything about that

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Someone wanna slap down some facts for good ol El Chi to look at? Cause apperently he's been watching to much of the Communist New's Network

Lookie here El Chi, get off you're high horse and start watching some REAL new's and reading some REAL newspaper, instead of listening to all the crap that the government WANTS you to believe

Anywho, sorry about going off topic, I just hate it when people ignore the facts. About Vietnam and Iraq

Jaguar is right, the war is about self defense. People might not see it that way because they've been brainwashed into thinking it's something else, where in reality it's this

We where attacked

We lost 3000 good people

We got attacked on our soil

There are terrorists in that country (iraq) and in my opinion, if you fight against us, if you are willing to behead an american (SAVE it for another thread please) then you ARE a terrorist, no questions asked

We have all the right to be there, not only had they broke the cease fire agreement, they had also broken several other agreement's

Saddam supported Terrorism, thats more than enough evidence right there to go in there and get him

Saddam allowed the Terrorist's to use his country as a place to train and such, another reason to go in there and take him out

Now, Vietnam

Vietnam, completely political. There where no terrorist cells there HOWEVER there where communicst cells (which, are pretty much similer to terrorist cells in my opinion since they both pretty much operate the same way - FEAR)

Now, the democrats are TRYING to push this into a political war because, in reality, they DO NOT want America to win, they want Iraq to win to make Bush look bad. But in reality, this isn't about Bush at all, this is about taking out one of the biggest cells here on earth.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

quote:

Someone wanna slap down some facts for good ol El Chi to look at? Cause apperently he's been watching to much of the Communist New's Network

Lookie here El Chi, get off you're high horse and start watching some REAL new's and reading some REAL newspaper, instead of listening to all the crap that the government WANTS you to believe

Anywho, sorry about going off topic, I just hate it when people ignore the facts. About Vietnam and Iraq

Jaguar is right, the war is about self defense. People might not see it that way because they've been brainwashed into thinking it's something else, where in reality it's this


. Just REMEMBER this: Debate is all well and good; However, the whole concept behind debating...is to FORM particular OPINION concerning a given issue.

If you want FACTS...DIG from books, and TALK with REAL Vietnam VETS!!

The concept, as to the validity of the war, is opinion, in itself.

Facts are AVAILIABE concerning political motivations for both Vietnam and Iraq.

what you will get here(and mostly from the WEB itself), is mere opinion, and most, from people who have no real concept, what war really entails.

@ El che: MY OPINION: you are absolutly correct concerning our involvement in Iraq.

I dont really understand it, but I keep seeing OPINIONS presented as FACTS, here. Those who insist others are brainwashed with propaganda, use television news cast, and newspapers as reference for reliable information on one hand, and scream brainwashing from the media on the other???

The pro's and con's toward our involvement in Vietnam, and the cry that the war was purely political has basis, but..Vietnam had a LONG history of war, and there was a legitimate proportion of the population fighting the, china backed NVA, which negates a lot of the conspiracy theories concerning U.S. envolvement.

Winning such a war,...I believe, was beyond our means, at the time. I believe the only way to win such a war, within such an enviroment, would entail the slaughter of most of the civilians as well.

like Iraq, We were not welcome there by many of the local inhabitants...as Wolfez pointed out: there was no way to determine the difference between friend and foe.

One difference, between Iraq, and Vietnam, is that Vietnam had been at war for YEARS..before we went into the conflict. And every previous country which had gotten envolved, pulled out too...and for many of the same reasons. The Vietnamese were very well learned in the art of fighting in such an enviroment...And had a lot of handed down experience in trickery and methodology to use.

[ 05-13-2004, 11:23 AM: Message edited by: street ]

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Here's something few people may know. WE supported the Viet nam quoc cop dong minh hoi (Aka: Viet Minh, the H is pronuced G so its Viet Ming) when japan invaded. The old saying the enemy of my enemy is my friend. Another problem with the whole basis of the war was that Ho Chi Minh admired us greatly. So greatly infact that he used OUR Declaration of Independance when he declared independance from France. Another thing is we supported France going back and colonizing when what is the one major thing we fought against ... Colonialism. They may have been communists but they where (shudder) good communists. When Ho set up his government in Hanoi (aka: Ho Chi Minh City) he also started land reforms that worked so well that the poverty level went from about 90% of the population below to 60ish% below in about one year. This man was a great leader.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Oh im sorry so helping the population and such isnt good i never knew... Blade your blinded by the Red Scare and the amazing anti comunist sentiments of the US sorry man but you dont have a twelve page report and you havent reserched this subject like I have. Oh and if you didnt know as you posted in the other vietnam thread. The North Vietnamese... did win... is 90% of Europe communist... no...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest Shingen

quote:

Originally posted by Cadrian Almondo:

Thats not what i was saying im saying that 90% of the world didnt turn communist

That's a matter of interpretation.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

but your also saying at the same time that commies didnt win in fact most of asia was communist just look what they did in Cambodia with the PO Pot Administration in Cambodia. and with the systomatic take over in Laos with Russia, China, North Korea, Vietnam, Taiwann still technically a pupet for China today. that is a pretty big mass of Asia full of Commies.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Please sign in to comment

You will be able to leave a comment after signing in



Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this  

×