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Do you wanna know how to keep jobs from going overseas?

Make it LESS expensive for companies to hire people.

Let's see, for every employee hired, the costs are about what the Employees salary is, so if you hire a worker at 30K a year, it costs the company 60K a year.

Unemployment insurance, SSI, Health insurance, if you can get it now, and all kinds of other fun factors.

Main one, LITIGATION!!!!!

Litigation costs more jobs then just about ANYTHING else, because the insurance rates are now SO HIGH, that companies can't afford to hire people within the US, because if they have to lay them off, or heaven forbid, FIRE them, they could get into all kinds of Legal entanglements, courts, etc, etc ad nauseum.

I wouldn't hire ANYONE if I had a choice in the matter, because it could put me out of business in a heartbeat.

The fact is that your boy Edwards has caused more problems then he is ever going to solve, he has caused health insurance costs to go up with his Ambulance chasing attitude and junk science, and then claims that he is somehow going to bring those costs down? HOW? How about if we limit damages and have a bit of tort reforms, that would bring it down, how about if we privatize medicare, and deregulate the health industry a bit?

Nah, never happen, how would little boys like Edwards make their millions if they couldn't do it on the backs of millions of healtcare insurance payees.

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Guest Shingen

quote:

Originally posted by Jaguar:

Do you wanna know how to keep jobs from going overseas?

Make it LESS expensive for companies to hire people.

Let's see, for every employee hired, the costs are about what the Employees salary is, so if you hire a worker at 30K a year, it costs the company 60K a year.

Unemployment insurance, SSI, Health insurance, if you can get it now, and all kinds of other fun factors.

The answer to that is contract labor. Sure I still have to carry Workman's Compensation insurance, but since they all technically work for themselves, I can hire and fire at will, and they are all required to pay their own taxes.

Simple Enough.

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quote:

Originally posted by Jaguar:

Do you wanna know how to keep jobs from going overseas?

Make it LESS expensive for companies to hire people.

Let's see, for every employee hired, the costs are about what the Employees salary is, so if you hire a worker at 30K a year, it costs the company 60K a year.

Unemployment insurance, SSI, Health insurance, if you can get it now, and all kinds of other fun factors.

The answer to that is contract labor. Sure I still have to carry Workman's Compensation insurance, but since they all technically work for themselves, I can hire and fire at will, and they are all required to pay their own taxes.

Simple Enough.

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quote:

Originally posted by Shingen:

quote:

Originally posted by Jaguar:

Do you wanna know how to keep jobs from going overseas?

Make it LESS expensive for companies to hire people.

Let's see, for every employee hired, the costs are about what the Employees salary is, so if you hire a worker at 30K a year, it costs the company 60K a year.

Unemployment insurance, SSI, Health insurance, if you can get it now, and all kinds of other fun factors.

The answer to that is contract labor. Sure I still have to carry Workman's Compensation insurance, but since they all technically work for themselves, I can hire and fire at will, and they are all required to pay their own taxes.

Simple Enough.


I wish it were so, but you still have to pay a hefty fee, because someone is paying those costs, even if it's not you. The people that you are hiring from pay those costs instead.

May seem cheaper to you, but in truth it's not, because a lot of those contract workers are considered part time, and therefore do not get benefits and all that. Why? because it is too expensive to hire them full time.

Nice, huh?

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quote:

Originally posted by Shingen:

quote:

Originally posted by Jaguar:

Do you wanna know how to keep jobs from going overseas?

Make it LESS expensive for companies to hire people.

Let's see, for every employee hired, the costs are about what the Employees salary is, so if you hire a worker at 30K a year, it costs the company 60K a year.

Unemployment insurance, SSI, Health insurance, if you can get it now, and all kinds of other fun factors.

The answer to that is contract labor. Sure I still have to carry Workman's Compensation insurance, but since they all technically work for themselves, I can hire and fire at will, and they are all required to pay their own taxes.

Simple Enough.


I wish it were so, but you still have to pay a hefty fee, because someone is paying those costs, even if it's not you. The people that you are hiring from pay those costs instead.

May seem cheaper to you, but in truth it's not, because a lot of those contract workers are considered part time, and therefore do not get benefits and all that. Why? because it is too expensive to hire them full time.

Nice, huh?

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Guest Shingen

quote:

Originally posted by Jaguar:

I wish it were so, but you still have to pay a hefty fee, because someone is paying those costs, even if it's not you. The people that you are hiring from pay those costs instead.

May seem cheaper to you, but in truth it's not, because a lot of those contract workers are considered part time, and therefore do not get benefits and all that. Why? because it is too expensive to hire them full time.

Nice, huh?

Well, I don't know...in a perfect world, you might have a point. If I worked for Microsoft or something, I might have benefits and all that crap, but I'm a carpenter.

My Granddad, he was a carpenter, and he never had no benefits. My dad was a carpenter and he never had no benefits. I'm a carpenter, and the only "benefits" I have, I have to pay for!

If I have to pay for healthcare and whatnot, so can everyone else in my book!

Phuck the free-rides!

...and everyone on my crew works 40-50 hours a week, so I don't comprehend how that's being part-time.

[ 08-09-2004, 01:46 AM: Message edited by: Shingen ]

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quote:

Originally posted by Jaguar:

I wish it were so, but you still have to pay a hefty fee, because someone is paying those costs, even if it's not you. The people that you are hiring from pay those costs instead.

May seem cheaper to you, but in truth it's not, because a lot of those contract workers are considered part time, and therefore do not get benefits and all that. Why? because it is too expensive to hire them full time.

Nice, huh?

Well, I don't know...in a perfect world, you might have a point. If I worked for Microsoft or something, I might have benefits and all that crap, but I'm a carpenter.

My Granddad, he was a carpenter, and he never had no benefits. My dad was a carpenter and he never had no benefits. I'm a carpenter, and the only "benefits" I have, I have to pay for!

If I have to pay for healthcare and whatnot, so can everyone else in my book!

Phuck the free-rides!

...and everyone on my crew works 40-50 hours a week, so I don't comprehend how that's being part-time.

[ 08-09-2004, 01:46 AM: Message edited by: Shingen ]

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I work for myself as well, and those "benefits" are not there for me either, I have to pay for them, every red cent, and it hurts, badly, every month.

At least I can write some of it off...LOL

But you're right, everyone wants a free ride, problem is that someone HAS to pay for it.

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quote:

Why don't you look up how many jobs the Heinz company has sent overseas!

Even though I am not a fan of offshoring jobs, I'm not sure that I would put Heinz in that category. From what I understand (and I did not research this), the Heinz overseas headcount is due to condiment plants being located in the countries where the food is grown, processed, and sold. I don't think that we ship tomatoes overseas, turn them into ketchup in Asia, and then send them back to the USA.

I could be wrong on this.

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I work for myself as well, and those "benefits" are not there for me either, I have to pay for them, every red cent, and it hurts, badly, every month.

At least I can write some of it off...LOL

But you're right, everyone wants a free ride, problem is that someone HAS to pay for it.

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quote:

Why don't you look up how many jobs the Heinz company has sent overseas!

Even though I am not a fan of offshoring jobs, I'm not sure that I would put Heinz in that category. From what I understand (and I did not research this), the Heinz overseas headcount is due to condiment plants being located in the countries where the food is grown, processed, and sold. I don't think that we ship tomatoes overseas, turn them into ketchup in Asia, and then send them back to the USA.

I could be wrong on this.

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Guest Shingen

quote:

Originally posted by Jaguar:

I work for myself as well, and those "benefits" are not there for me either, I have to pay for them, every red cent, and it hurts, badly, every month.

At least I can write some of it off...LOL

But you're right, everyone wants a free ride, problem is that someone HAS to pay for it.

Dude, it's not a problem that I have to pay for anything. It's called Capitalism and Free Enterprise. I wouldn't want it if I didn't earn it and pay for it.

The problem is all of the damn idiots out there scamming workman's comp and suing Doctors and Insurance companies at the drop of a hat! Sure if they got a legit claim, that's what insurance is for, that's why you pay for it.

But too often people sue for stupid, ungodley reasons which jacks up the over price of everything under the sun.

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Guest Shingen

quote:

Originally posted by Jaguar:

I work for myself as well, and those "benefits" are not there for me either, I have to pay for them, every red cent, and it hurts, badly, every month.

At least I can write some of it off...LOL

But you're right, everyone wants a free ride, problem is that someone HAS to pay for it.

Dude, it's not a problem that I have to pay for anything. It's called Capitalism and Free Enterprise. I wouldn't want it if I didn't earn it and pay for it.

The problem is all of the damn idiots out there scamming workman's comp and suing Doctors and Insurance companies at the drop of a hat! Sure if they got a legit claim, that's what insurance is for, that's why you pay for it.

But too often people sue for stupid, ungodley reasons which jacks up the over price of everything under the sun.

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Okay back to the issue of this thread

IT'S AN ODD campaign gimmick, but Sen. John F. Kerry, D-Mass., often tells voters that he was "misled" and that's why he voted for an October 2002 resolution authorizing military force against Iraq.

Kerry at the convention. He was complacent, arrogant and humourless. How they loved him

At one level, what's happening is very unfair. Three-quarters of Democratic voters opposed the Iraq war; 86 per cent of convention delegates opposed it. But they've wound up with a presidential ticket comprised of two Senators who both voted in favour of it. And, after being for-and-against the war for the last year according to political necessity, Kerry seems to have settled on a position of doing pretty much what Bush is doing while simultaneously spending more time on the blower to Kofi, Jacques and Gerhard. If I were a principled anti-war Democrat, I'd be furious.

------------------------------------------------

Say what you like about Bush, but on Iraq he stood by his principles and rallied the British, Australians, Poles, Italians, etc, to join him. He also rallied Kerry and Edwards to join him. They voted for his war, as the columnist Debra Saunders of The San Francisco Chronical drolly pointed out: "Kerry and Edwards followed. Bush led."

Kerry now says that Bush "misled" him on Iraq. But, if he was that easily suckered by a renowned moron, how much more susceptible would he be to such wily operators as Chirac. They would speak French to each other, and Jacques would blow soothingly in his ear, and Kerry would look flattered, and there'd be lots of resolutions and joint declarations, and nothing would happen. We'd be fighting the war on terror through the self-admiring inertia of windbag multilateralism.

As for the home front, Kerry says: "As President, I will not evade or equivocate; I will immediately implement the recommendations of that [the 9/11] commission." Whoa, hold on there. There's a ton of recommendations, and some of us don't like the part about concentrating all US intelligence under one cabinet secretary who serves not at the President's pleasure but for a fixed term. That effectively institutionalises the groupthink resistance to alternative ideas that led to the 9/11 failures. Leadership is about hearing different viewpoints and reaching a judgment. But Kerry gives the impression that, as long as he enjoys the perks of the top job, he's happy to subcontract his judgment to others.

He moans endlessly about the "outsourcing" of American jobs but, when it comes to his own job, he's willing to outsource American foreign policy to the mushy transnational talk-shops and to outsource homeland security to some dubious intelligence tsar. There's no sense of any strategic vision, no sense that he's thought about Iran or North Korea or any of the other powder kegs about to blow. I tried to ask him about some of these matters during the New Hampshire primary and he intoned in response, "Sometimes truly courageous leadership means having the courage not to show any leadership." (I quote from memory.)

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Okay back to the issue of this thread

IT'S AN ODD campaign gimmick, but Sen. John F. Kerry, D-Mass., often tells voters that he was "misled" and that's why he voted for an October 2002 resolution authorizing military force against Iraq.

Kerry at the convention. He was complacent, arrogant and humourless. How they loved him

At one level, what's happening is very unfair. Three-quarters of Democratic voters opposed the Iraq war; 86 per cent of convention delegates opposed it. But they've wound up with a presidential ticket comprised of two Senators who both voted in favour of it. And, after being for-and-against the war for the last year according to political necessity, Kerry seems to have settled on a position of doing pretty much what Bush is doing while simultaneously spending more time on the blower to Kofi, Jacques and Gerhard. If I were a principled anti-war Democrat, I'd be furious.

------------------------------------------------

Say what you like about Bush, but on Iraq he stood by his principles and rallied the British, Australians, Poles, Italians, etc, to join him. He also rallied Kerry and Edwards to join him. They voted for his war, as the columnist Debra Saunders of The San Francisco Chronical drolly pointed out: "Kerry and Edwards followed. Bush led."

Kerry now says that Bush "misled" him on Iraq. But, if he was that easily suckered by a renowned moron, how much more susceptible would he be to such wily operators as Chirac. They would speak French to each other, and Jacques would blow soothingly in his ear, and Kerry would look flattered, and there'd be lots of resolutions and joint declarations, and nothing would happen. We'd be fighting the war on terror through the self-admiring inertia of windbag multilateralism.

As for the home front, Kerry says: "As President, I will not evade or equivocate; I will immediately implement the recommendations of that [the 9/11] commission." Whoa, hold on there. There's a ton of recommendations, and some of us don't like the part about concentrating all US intelligence under one cabinet secretary who serves not at the President's pleasure but for a fixed term. That effectively institutionalises the groupthink resistance to alternative ideas that led to the 9/11 failures. Leadership is about hearing different viewpoints and reaching a judgment. But Kerry gives the impression that, as long as he enjoys the perks of the top job, he's happy to subcontract his judgment to others.

He moans endlessly about the "outsourcing" of American jobs but, when it comes to his own job, he's willing to outsource American foreign policy to the mushy transnational talk-shops and to outsource homeland security to some dubious intelligence tsar. There's no sense of any strategic vision, no sense that he's thought about Iran or North Korea or any of the other powder kegs about to blow. I tried to ask him about some of these matters during the New Hampshire primary and he intoned in response, "Sometimes truly courageous leadership means having the courage not to show any leadership." (I quote from memory.)

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quote:

Originally posted by Shingen:

quote:

Originally posted by Jaguar:

I work for myself as well, and those "benefits" are not there for me either, I have to pay for them, every red cent, and it hurts, badly, every month.

At least I can write some of it off...LOL

But you're right, everyone wants a free ride, problem is that someone HAS to pay for it.

Dude, it's not a problem that I have to pay for anything. It's called Capitalism and Free Enterprise. I wouldn't want it if I didn't earn it and pay for it.

The problem is all of the damn idiots out there scamming workman's comp and suing Doctors and Insurance companies at the drop of a hat! Sure if they got a legit claim, that's what insurance is for, that's why you pay for it.

But too often people sue for stupid, ungodley reasons which jacks up the over price of everything under the sun.


YOu and I are cut from the same cloth when it comes to that Shingen, the problem is that 50%+ of the people out there are not, and will do whatever it takes to get as much of a free ride as they can.

FOr some reason if they can get something for free, they will do what they can to get it for free, problem is that someone has to pay for it, and it's the other 50%- that do, which of course raises our costs because that is you and me.

You and I are on exactly the same page.

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quote:

Originally posted by Shingen:

quote:

Originally posted by Jaguar:

I work for myself as well, and those "benefits" are not there for me either, I have to pay for them, every red cent, and it hurts, badly, every month.

At least I can write some of it off...LOL

But you're right, everyone wants a free ride, problem is that someone HAS to pay for it.

Dude, it's not a problem that I have to pay for anything. It's called Capitalism and Free Enterprise. I wouldn't want it if I didn't earn it and pay for it.

The problem is all of the damn idiots out there scamming workman's comp and suing Doctors and Insurance companies at the drop of a hat! Sure if they got a legit claim, that's what insurance is for, that's why you pay for it.

But too often people sue for stupid, ungodley reasons which jacks up the over price of everything under the sun.


YOu and I are cut from the same cloth when it comes to that Shingen, the problem is that 50%+ of the people out there are not, and will do whatever it takes to get as much of a free ride as they can.

FOr some reason if they can get something for free, they will do what they can to get it for free, problem is that someone has to pay for it, and it's the other 50%- that do, which of course raises our costs because that is you and me.

You and I are on exactly the same page.

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The issue is flip flopping right? I just want to be clear on that. So my response is two fold. First I must say that I think that Kerry's manipulation of his own words is disgraceful and shows a weak will. People do change their minds. I have changed mine and can admit that I made a horrible mistake in voting G.W. Bush into office having MUCH MORE TO DO WITH IT, (being I voted in Florida) than MOST OF YOU HERE. Other than Floridians only the Supreme Court had more to do with that, it obviously wasn;t the popular concensus of THE PEOPLE. However, I digress... flip flopping... flip flopping... well some might equate that with lying. Hmmm... where have I heard lies before, oh yeah... the Iraq WMDs, Condi Rice saying they never had any inclination that planes could be used as weapons and a littany of other propagandist points made by this Administration to bolster war. None of which have been proved.

Now, because we're talking about flip flopping I would like to highlight some hypocrisy I am seeing with you Republicans here. I mean you act as if G. W. Bush is some kind of stalwart that has never flip flopped. Contrary to your asserted assumption here are some Bush flip flops.

1. Opposed the 9/11 commission. Now acts as if it was all his idea.

2. Opposed the creation of the Office of Homeland Security. Funny enough credits it as a masterpiece of his administration's defense of America from terror threat.

3. Opposed making gay marriage a matter for the Federal government (go back to the debates). Proclaimed that it was a matter for the states to decide. Now he supports a CONSTITUTIONAL AMENDMENT TO BAN IT.

4. Said that American Troops should not be used for the purposes of nation building. Now it is the ONLY REASON we went to Iraq... TO FREE THOSE POOR PEOPLE (because the stack of lies has fallen and they had to fall back to this position).

5. Cheney said as a spokesman of this Administration that Saddam had links to the 9/11 attacks. Has now said, HE NEVER SAID THAT. Uhrmmm right.

6. Negotiation with North Korea was a failure of the Clinton Administration. Whoops, he's negotiated with North Korea and continues to, currently offering them incentives to disarm.

7. Said that he would consider any nation that proliferated WMDs an enemy. Miraculously, there was little condemnation of Pakistan for the WIDESPREAD NUCLEAR PROLIFERATION caused by one of their scientists (name escapes me I'm working off of memory).

8. Said he would not raid the SS trust fund. Immediately raided it.

I could go on and on and likely find another 50 or 60 instances of Bush FLIP FLOPPING or selling a wholesale bill of HORSESH*T goods to the American people. This is what being a politician is. You make this like it is the sole domain of the Democrats and Kerry. You should all be ashamed or make up hats for yourselves that say "NAIVE" so that we can see you when you're coming.

Just absolutely unbelievable. ALL politicians are LIARS. This is why I could not be a politician. However, G.W. Bush has made some moves during his tenure that show an obvious lack of consideration for Americans while aiding corporations. We could have Iraqis throwing flowers at our feet if we weren't so busy lining our own corporate pockets. $80-$120K for some TRUCK DRIVER to haul crap from point A to point B in Iraq. PUT IRAQIS BEHIND THE WHEELS OF THOSE TRUCKS and maybe they'll see a stake in NOT blowing it up and losing their job (which they could be paid MUCH MUCH less to do than some redneck from here). We wouldn't have huge bills charged to all of us TAXPAYERS for the housing, feeding and maintenance of these overpaid WORKERS etc etc. YOU PEOPLE ***** ABOUT WELFARE and then you pay a truck driver these insane amounts of money on the GOVERNMENT'S DIME. ASHAMED, every single one of you free spending Republicans should be wondering who's LIBERAL around here.

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The issue is flip flopping right? I just want to be clear on that. So my response is two fold. First I must say that I think that Kerry's manipulation of his own words is disgraceful and shows a weak will. People do change their minds. I have changed mine and can admit that I made a horrible mistake in voting G.W. Bush into office having MUCH MORE TO DO WITH IT, (being I voted in Florida) than MOST OF YOU HERE. Other than Floridians only the Supreme Court had more to do with that, it obviously wasn;t the popular concensus of THE PEOPLE. However, I digress... flip flopping... flip flopping... well some might equate that with lying. Hmmm... where have I heard lies before, oh yeah... the Iraq WMDs, Condi Rice saying they never had any inclination that planes could be used as weapons and a littany of other propagandist points made by this Administration to bolster war. None of which have been proved.

Now, because we're talking about flip flopping I would like to highlight some hypocrisy I am seeing with you Republicans here. I mean you act as if G. W. Bush is some kind of stalwart that has never flip flopped. Contrary to your asserted assumption here are some Bush flip flops.

1. Opposed the 9/11 commission. Now acts as if it was all his idea.

2. Opposed the creation of the Office of Homeland Security. Funny enough credits it as a masterpiece of his administration's defense of America from terror threat.

3. Opposed making gay marriage a matter for the Federal government (go back to the debates). Proclaimed that it was a matter for the states to decide. Now he supports a CONSTITUTIONAL AMENDMENT TO BAN IT.

4. Said that American Troops should not be used for the purposes of nation building. Now it is the ONLY REASON we went to Iraq... TO FREE THOSE POOR PEOPLE (because the stack of lies has fallen and they had to fall back to this position).

5. Cheney said as a spokesman of this Administration that Saddam had links to the 9/11 attacks. Has now said, HE NEVER SAID THAT. Uhrmmm right.

6. Negotiation with North Korea was a failure of the Clinton Administration. Whoops, he's negotiated with North Korea and continues to, currently offering them incentives to disarm.

7. Said that he would consider any nation that proliferated WMDs an enemy. Miraculously, there was little condemnation of Pakistan for the WIDESPREAD NUCLEAR PROLIFERATION caused by one of their scientists (name escapes me I'm working off of memory).

8. Said he would not raid the SS trust fund. Immediately raided it.

I could go on and on and likely find another 50 or 60 instances of Bush FLIP FLOPPING or selling a wholesale bill of HORSESH*T goods to the American people. This is what being a politician is. You make this like it is the sole domain of the Democrats and Kerry. You should all be ashamed or make up hats for yourselves that say "NAIVE" so that we can see you when you're coming.

Just absolutely unbelievable. ALL politicians are LIARS. This is why I could not be a politician. However, G.W. Bush has made some moves during his tenure that show an obvious lack of consideration for Americans while aiding corporations. We could have Iraqis throwing flowers at our feet if we weren't so busy lining our own corporate pockets. $80-$120K for some TRUCK DRIVER to haul crap from point A to point B in Iraq. PUT IRAQIS BEHIND THE WHEELS OF THOSE TRUCKS and maybe they'll see a stake in NOT blowing it up and losing their job (which they could be paid MUCH MUCH less to do than some redneck from here). We wouldn't have huge bills charged to all of us TAXPAYERS for the housing, feeding and maintenance of these overpaid WORKERS etc etc. YOU PEOPLE ***** ABOUT WELFARE and then you pay a truck driver these insane amounts of money on the GOVERNMENT'S DIME. ASHAMED, every single one of you free spending Republicans should be wondering who's LIBERAL around here.

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Sorry Lost, I have been too busy stuffing and mailing the Kerry for President bumper stickers

Quote:

________________________________________________

I suggest they come to NY. Mcdonalds and alot of other companies are always looking for workers.

_________________________________________________

Are you telling me it is totally exceptable to lose a $20.00 an hour job to flip burgers for $7.00 per hour?

If I got laid off I could easily go back to being a Nursing Assistant for $7.65 per hour but even with extra shifts and hand me downs, I won't be able feed my kids.

I want to see a President re-examine the credit card companies or why a house that cost $146000.00 7 years ago could be sold for $369000.00 now.

Kerry's wife is a Heinz by marrige, I don't know the details of what she owns or what part of the business she is involved with, but I am pretty sure Kerry doesn't get much say as a second husband.

Jag...when I am unemoployeed and wrokinf in the nursing home full time, I will gladly add a few hours at target...but do you honestly think that is right? or that someone should brag about employment being up? That is nothing to brag about. I do agree with you on how people take advantage and want a free ride, so focus on that don't cut music from my kids school carriculum. (sp?) and there my spelling issues are why I can't home school...

I don't oppose the war, I just feel we should level them and leave. Heartless? perhaps. My mother would like to disown me for those statements.

My finall observation, or thought is...I hve been listening to various arguments between Republicans and Democrats...why is it that a Republican will tell a Dem that they are stupid and have "no idea what you are talking about" yet a Democrat will continue to make the point without being outwardly rude?

I used to read these posts and tell myself not to respond becasuse you guys know more than me...I have decided, no matter how dumb I may sound...I am a true representation of a lot of 30 something women who vote.

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Sorry Lost, I have been too busy stuffing and mailing the Kerry for President bumper stickers

Quote:

________________________________________________

I suggest they come to NY. Mcdonalds and alot of other companies are always looking for workers.

_________________________________________________

Are you telling me it is totally exceptable to lose a $20.00 an hour job to flip burgers for $7.00 per hour?

If I got laid off I could easily go back to being a Nursing Assistant for $7.65 per hour but even with extra shifts and hand me downs, I won't be able feed my kids.

I want to see a President re-examine the credit card companies or why a house that cost $146000.00 7 years ago could be sold for $369000.00 now.

Kerry's wife is a Heinz by marrige, I don't know the details of what she owns or what part of the business she is involved with, but I am pretty sure Kerry doesn't get much say as a second husband.

Jag...when I am unemoployeed and wrokinf in the nursing home full time, I will gladly add a few hours at target...but do you honestly think that is right? or that someone should brag about employment being up? That is nothing to brag about. I do agree with you on how people take advantage and want a free ride, so focus on that don't cut music from my kids school carriculum. (sp?) and there my spelling issues are why I can't home school...

I don't oppose the war, I just feel we should level them and leave. Heartless? perhaps. My mother would like to disown me for those statements.

My finall observation, or thought is...I hve been listening to various arguments between Republicans and Democrats...why is it that a Republican will tell a Dem that they are stupid and have "no idea what you are talking about" yet a Democrat will continue to make the point without being outwardly rude?

I used to read these posts and tell myself not to respond becasuse you guys know more than me...I have decided, no matter how dumb I may sound...I am a true representation of a lot of 30 something women who vote.

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Echo you might not agree with me, after all I am just an angry angst ridden Republican... but that was a fine message you posted. Never think yourself smaller than any of these guys or for that matter me. You have a vote just as I have a vote so regardless of what we think we are all equals in that regard. You vote your conscience and you do it with pride just as I myself am. The economy and the state of things in general is askew to the nth degree. You are right I have watched housing prices triple in four years and it is not because Bush is a great President it is because the divide between those that can and those that have is expanding.

I don't mind getting a fair price for my home but even I know that it is not worth what the market is dictating and I have to wonder how ANYBODY in this great nation is going to afford the American dream anymore when WAGES are falling and prices are rising. Fear a terrorist or fear an inability to be a part of the American dream. I have news for you BASTARDS, when the American dream is UNATTAINABLE the GOD DAMNED TERRORISTS HAVE ALREADY WON... and you don't have to be wearing a towel on your head to have made this the state of things in this nation. Imbeciles.

Oh and JUST SO WE ARE CLEAR ON WHAT MY BACKGROUND IS... I am a mortgage broker. Low interest rates have artificially raised the asking prices of houses. How? Well ok, if you can get a mortgage for $200,000 at 5% and the usual state of things is 7.250% sellers can ask a higher price. Meanwhile you have sellers realizing that rates are down selling their homes to finance NEW HOMES that are likewise over priced. See the vicious circle? So you have an economy that has been GRACIOUSLY and thankfully for me been bolstered by an historically low interest rate making it so that buyers can afford higher property prices. What that is doing is artificially driving up values on homes being sold. Get it? Got it? Good. Meanwhile the precedent will have been set and it will be a hell of a lot more difficult to allow the economy to recooperate because homes generally speaking DO NOT LOSE ESTABLISH VALUES. So in essence you're going to have an up and coming generation of Americans that WILL NOT be able to afford the American Dream unless this PHONY wealth brought on by low interest rates is allowed to continue.

So Greenspan is now being tasked with choosing his poison. Either we continue to keep interest rates low (causing the dollar to continue to plummet abroad and inflation to rise) or we increase interest rates and stabilize the dollar while lowering interest rates and risk shutting down this PHONY economy. Are ya with me? HUH?! How about you Jaguar? *snickers*

Peace

Takvah

[ 08-09-2004, 07:34 PM: Message edited by: Takvah ]

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Echo you might not agree with me, after all I am just an angry angst ridden Republican... but that was a fine message you posted. Never think yourself smaller than any of these guys or for that matter me. You have a vote just as I have a vote so regardless of what we think we are all equals in that regard. You vote your conscience and you do it with pride just as I myself am. The economy and the state of things in general is askew to the nth degree. You are right I have watched housing prices triple in four years and it is not because Bush is a great President it is because the divide between those that can and those that have is expanding.

I don't mind getting a fair price for my home but even I know that it is not worth what the market is dictating and I have to wonder how ANYBODY in this great nation is going to afford the American dream anymore when WAGES are falling and prices are rising. Fear a terrorist or fear an inability to be a part of the American dream. I have news for you BASTARDS, when the American dream is UNATTAINABLE the GOD DAMNED TERRORISTS HAVE ALREADY WON... and you don't have to be wearing a towel on your head to have made this the state of things in this nation. Imbeciles.

Oh and JUST SO WE ARE CLEAR ON WHAT MY BACKGROUND IS... I am a mortgage broker. Low interest rates have artificially raised the asking prices of houses. How? Well ok, if you can get a mortgage for $200,000 at 5% and the usual state of things is 7.250% sellers can ask a higher price. Meanwhile you have sellers realizing that rates are down selling their homes to finance NEW HOMES that are likewise over priced. See the vicious circle? So you have an economy that has been GRACIOUSLY and thankfully for me been bolstered by an historically low interest rate making it so that buyers can afford higher property prices. What that is doing is artificially driving up values on homes being sold. Get it? Got it? Good. Meanwhile the precedent will have been set and it will be a hell of a lot more difficult to allow the economy to recooperate because homes generally speaking DO NOT LOSE ESTABLISH VALUES. So in essence you're going to have an up and coming generation of Americans that WILL NOT be able to afford the American Dream unless this PHONY wealth brought on by low interest rates is allowed to continue.

So Greenspan is now being tasked with choosing his poison. Either we continue to keep interest rates low (causing the dollar to continue to plummet abroad and inflation to rise) or we increase interest rates and stabilize the dollar while lowering interest rates and risk shutting down this PHONY economy. Are ya with me? HUH?! How about you Jaguar? *snickers*

Peace

Takvah

[ 08-09-2004, 07:34 PM: Message edited by: Takvah ]

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I have one thing to say to some of you: how in heck did we get talking about the economy when this thread is suppose to be about the Kerry Documentary? Which is about Kerry's stance on the Iraq war. You can go around in circles again about all the other crap in the fine threads we've already created for that. It would be nice to have at least one thread that stayed focus in the topic.

Anyway, in answer to some of your posts, Americans have become soft in the belly. I live in Manhattan and there is a strong mexican community here. Most of them have two or more kids. The husbands and wives work 2-3 jobs. Jobs that no one else wants. They have that old spirit that made this country great and put the rest of us to shame with their drive. Like my grand parents and parents have said quite often "A Job is a Job". It's better than earning zilch.

Oh and before you blame Bush again for the outsourcing and lost american jobs remember that the sucking sound of jobs started with the Democrats. Namely Nafta.

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I have one thing to say to some of you: how in heck did we get talking about the economy when this thread is suppose to be about the Kerry Documentary? Which is about Kerry's stance on the Iraq war. You can go around in circles again about all the other crap in the fine threads we've already created for that. It would be nice to have at least one thread that stayed focus in the topic.

Anyway, in answer to some of your posts, Americans have become soft in the belly. I live in Manhattan and there is a strong mexican community here. Most of them have two or more kids. The husbands and wives work 2-3 jobs. Jobs that no one else wants. They have that old spirit that made this country great and put the rest of us to shame with their drive. Like my grand parents and parents have said quite often "A Job is a Job". It's better than earning zilch.

Oh and before you blame Bush again for the outsourcing and lost american jobs remember that the sucking sound of jobs started with the Democrats. Namely Nafta.

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