Jump to content
3000AD Forums
Sign in to follow this  
TARWMSRK

Hey check this out... something not related to the US!

Recommended Posts

did anyone really EXPECT, our ally..(RUSSIA), would be exempt, from people fighting for independence?

or even from the so called "TERRORIST"?

but, seriously....I believe, this has been going on awhile.

Did you read, how they killed those, who took over the theater?....The gas Russia used on them, killed their hostages, as well.(Russia demonstrated the same concern, over their citizens, as the United states showed over those children in WACO)

It's getting harder and harder to tell the mind set of the socialist/COMMUNIST governments, from our good ole U.S. of A.'s mind set.

Remember:

quote:

(quote, from the WRITINGS of SUN)

It is ONLY the weak minded, who do not question the actions of their government, with a hyper-criticism; if only to assure, a balance is maintained, and the population get TRUE protection from such a government.

Just my opinion.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest

if i were a terrorrist id think twice about pissing off russia.

I know this sounds cold and non-pc but attacking the US will result either in military response which france and other eurowhiner nations will be happy to jump in to condemn and veto or in a very publicized, long drawn, hollywood blockbuster movie inspiring, resource spending debate & beaurocratic responses.

attack russia and you will get your cities shelled, your operatives (read: hostage takers) excecuted on the spot & their families probably threatened or quitely executed on the side and on top of that, the russian military which is not known for its politically correct actions or for being humanitarians.

Personally I prefer the russian approach. Those animals only understand force. Speeches, acts of good faith, etc etc only gives their cause more fuel since they are being noticed.

I hope and pray the kids in those schools come out of it alive. In the same time I do hope the russian military goes full out on those who planned and financed the hostage takers.

A few divisions of russian infantry and tanks in Iraq and Afghanistan would help lots too.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest

It is time for the Russians to forget about diplomacy with the Chechen Muslim rebels.

They have gone WAY too far this time.

Taking children hostage? WTF kind of sick puppies would do such a thing?

They need to be killed, as in dead, dead, dead, and then their entire country needs to be militarized, and any terrorists that are found, killed, any sympathizers, killed, any supporters, KILLED.

This is enough, Russia, Israel, and yes, the US, needs to take the gloves off and kick these Muslim terrorists to Allah and their 72 virgins.

They worship death? Well, it is time to give it to them.

Kidnapping children? bunch of sick, mentally disturbed Bastages. Time to take out the lot, with machine guns and any other weapon necassary to send them to Allah.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Ok, the Russians are not exactly nice people ill give you that. But don't you think that terrorists specifically targeting a school full of children and threatening to kill them is a little low even for terrorists? Also, what else can Russia do in a hostage situation like that other than storm the building?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

quote:

Ok, the Russians are not exactly nice people ill give you that. But don't you think that terrorists specifically targeting a school full of children and threatening to kill them is a little low even for terrorists? Also, what else can Russia do in a hostage situation like that other than storm the building?

UH...Negotiate....UH.....Diplomatic Solution, to attempt to end hostility between factions?......yep, Russia, is NO more a credible faction, than the SO CALLED terrorist.

Interpretation of RIGHTFUL existance, is essential, to appriciate an EQUAL insight into ANY conflict, between opposing factions.

If One faction determines, the other has NO right to exist, then negotiation, and Diplomacy, are NOT offered. This should reveal, who the REAL TERRORIST are, to ANY learned individual.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Nice post Nomad, it seem's you check fact's and check sources unlike a few people I know here

The problem that Russia has is that they've discarded there old ways

Remember the threator hostage take over? You should. They tried to end it using gas

However, let me ask you this. If they HADN'T used gas there would've been a whole lot more dead because those people would've detonated the bomb's that where present and near those women

This could doesn't care about the reguler people, they don't care about those people's children. All they care about is independence, but the thing is, if there willingness is to strike at defenseless children then calling them "terrorists" isn't enough, more like murderous f**king BASTARDS

I'm not sure what caused these "people" to attack children, but it seem's obvious, to me, that they CAN NOT be bargened with

My opinion on what they should do:

The terrorist's can't be negotiated with, not after this

Gas would just kill the children because most children aren't attuned to the affects of gas like adults are (even then)

Rushing the place will resolt in more killing and needless death, the terrorist's will also most likely blow themselves up

Congressional records aren't showing what i wanted to show, will have to do a more extensive search. Once that's done I'll edit this

What I was going to post was a record of this group's actions, as proof that negotiation are preatty much impossible

But, nomad, you are right. An assault would be possible, but have you already forgotten that the terrorist's have threatened to blow up the building? That being said, assaulting would only further them to that cause and turn them into a martur

In a case like that, what else do YOU believe the Russiens should do in a situation like this?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Just a brief, but excuse the language above, it just really irks me when children are taken hostage

A fatal choice in deed

Either attack a school full of children, and risk the death's of hundreds on there hands

Or

Not attack, but prolong and wait until the terrorist's decide to end there live's and blow up the school anyway

Either way, they won't cooperate with authoritys and will most likely blow themselves up, killing the children

That being said. Attacking and not attacking will result in the SAME outcome.. saddly

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Street, you are plain out clueless. Negotiate? Peace? Diplomacy? Factions? Russia is a faction?

The rebels are factions because they have no centralized leaders, they are not a country they come from villages or towns. Russia is a country with an ellected leader.

And in your first post you put terrorists in parrentesis, you don't call them terrorists? It's ok to take a school with kids, kill some of them that wouldn't get in? Don't feed them, let them go to the bathroom, dangle them outside the windows, that's not terrorists?

Your views are completly out of phase with reality. Hard facts is Russia has military in Chechneya, a lot of Chechens have long ago said forget the war, we can have our ellected leader and be a part of Russia, the rebels that come from outside major population sources (meaning villages, tribes and such) still stick to the old ways and you have results such as this. When this happens Russian military retaliates and levels a city or a village. As far as I am concerned they should level all the villages and hunt them down like animals in the hills and mountains, and the regular city population should do the same to their uneducated backwards countrymen. Which they are known for doing sometimes by the way.

Damn, I just wish that one of this days you would actually get into a situation where there's bullets flying and see the savageness of someone who's eyes are glazed over and foam flying from the mouth while he's yelling something uncomprehensible at you, Reason with that you..........

Reason with someone who takes your kids and locks themselfs inside of school. Good thing Russia doesn't have much people like you, good thing Russians still know that when someone takes people hostage, kills them they don't deserve to sit in prison with cable tv, library, internet access and gym, good thing that they know that all those people deserve is a bullet in the head.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Giving the past history (as nomad has pointed out) Russia, cannot be negotiated with or trusted, either.(America, now demonstrating like attributes)

This, being from a dishonorable position taken in the past, by the Russian Government.( Attacking while staging a FALSE negotiation); thus there is NO other recourse, for a people, than to BECOME the TERRORIST, everyone fears.

The real problem here, is that the SUPER power status, of Government, will accept NO deviation of course, regardless of opposition.

The opposition, is viewed as "HAVING NO RIGHT TO EXISTANCE".

If you practice the ideology, that there is NO room for negotiation with your enemy, for an extended number of years, then your enemy DEVELOPES, into an entity which will accept DEATH, in order to reinforce, it's "RIGHT TO EXIST" , position.

To go out of your way, to ESTABLISH TRUST, with such an enemy, would mean to ELIMINATE, the "ZERO TOLORANCE" mentality and refusal to FAIRLY negotiate terms.

Once, your enemy can TRUST you enough, to open legitamate negotiation(lacking a blind-sided attack from those negotiating) and DEMONSTRATE that position, to such a group..REGARDLESS, of success or failure of the immediate crises...ONLY then, can such an enemy begin to realize, its RIGHT to exist is acknowledged, and the suicide form of battle, be diminished.

After all, it took many years of the "ZERO TOLORANCE" mentality, to nurse, such a faction into existance...in the first place.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

(is ignoring street's rubbish post)

I was expecting such a reply Nomad

In other words, the children are nothing more than pawns in the king's game

*sighs*

I certainly hope Putin decide's to take the right path, but in question, what exactly is the right path?

Like I said.. the end result will remain the same, children will die. Either because of an assault, or because the terrorist's are done waiting. Either way, it's a Rhectorical situation

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Wow I didnt think of it that way. Unless Putin really botches the rescue, I think the Russian people will support children. I may be thinking something crazy but I believe terrorists killing a few hundred children tend to have a tremendous negative effect on world opinion.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

quote:

When Chechens weren't as radicalized like today, the russians, in their greed, KILLED the general Dudayev, despite the fact that he was willing to strike an agreement providing a limited autonomy for Chechnia. Then they refused the calls for negociations from Maskhadov. What did the russians achieve ? That Maskhadov lost almost all his credibility, and the russians, instead of facing an association of chechen rebel factions under a centralized command, are now battling a network of loose terrorist groups related to Basayev. This is the shining example of exactly what should not be done.


And this is EXACTLY what the U.S. has done, in relation to the al qaeda. This is, but one reason why the Bush administration's, activity within Iraq, was one of the worst bungles in history. The condition created in iraq, merely provided the various factions a unification in purpose, and principle...thus the DANGER, toward the SUPER POWER was increased, rather than diminished.

Radical factions, serving beneath some form of centralized command, can be negotiated with. Scattered factions with NO centralized command, are more obscure, and irradic in behavior; thus vertually impossible, to irradicate.

Kalshion, I know you think I put my 2 cents in, as a response to you..but sadly, the world does not revolve around your opinions, and ignoring my, "so called", rubbish, is your perogative.

I put my views in, just as anyone else. They are not posted, for the pure matter of debate, and are NOT subjective to YOUR opinion alone.

As far as the "RIGHT" path goes. That is a matter of perspective, of those playing the game. I personally base, what is "RIGHT", by that which is Moral, and that which would adhere to MORAL principle; however, That which will be done, will be done, based on POLITICAL manipulation. What will be considered "RIGHT", will be considered such, based on propaghanda and manipulation dictated by the RUSSIAN Government.

(wishing Kalshion, would move past the GRUDGE match mentality)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

quote:

Damn, I just wish that one of this days you would actually get into a situation where there's bullets flying and see the savageness of someone who's eyes are glazed over and foam flying from the mouth while he's yelling something uncomprehensible at you, Reason with that you..........


Soback, you and your coherts, who KEEP flaming me, for my objective rationalism, is getting rather tiresome.

For your information, I am a 45 year old man, who spent SIX (USNAVY SEAL)years of my life fighting for the USA, in ALL it's CORRUPTNESS, in order to protect YOUR "PERCIEVED" freedoms. I lost my wife, in KEWAIT, during the FIRST GULF WAR. I held the brains of my C.O., in my hands, and watched his eyes glaze over, while chewing chunks of flesh off his toungue..... I saw enough DEATH, and miraculously survived...to fill 100 men to sickness, just thinking about WAR....shall I go on?

I AM an honorably discharched VET, who saw ACTION, before "OPERATION DESERT STORM", and AFTER!!

I've cut the throats of men, whom I now RESPECT.. for their courage, and sacrifice made, for what THEY believed. Even though..... they were my enemy, and the enemy of MY country.

In WAR, we are ALL pawns, In DEATH, you stand alone. NOBODY WINS!!...period. If that is CLUELESS...then MORE of you should adopt such a state of intellect...It would be an improvement!!

WHO are the ones who are " CLUELESS"?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Street, if you have done all you say you've done, then why in the world would you not support extreeme prejudice against the enemies of your people? Negotiations will just delay the inevitable conflict, conflict that when put off will just build up and errupt with greater strenght.

To break it down to simpler terms it's just like instead of having little arguments you hold your anger inside and then one day let it all out in a furry. Would you rather have minimal military conflict resolutions throughout the world or one big world war 3 a hundred years later. Negotiations only work to put off the conflict, not to eliminate it. Israel and Palestine, Iraq and Iran, Germany and Russia in WWII, British and USA in the 1800s, those are just but a few perfect examples of negotiations prolonging resolution leading to armed conflicts.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest

Clueless, totally clueless.

You do NOT negotiate with Terrorists, EVER.

You KILL them, end of story.

Terrorism in any form or for ANY reason is unacceptable.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well, they started shooting hostages so Russian troops stormed the school. They have shot dozens, maybe hundreds. Reason with that street, you are a complete #$^[email protected]&

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

quote:

Well, they started shooting hostages so Russian troops stormed the school. They have shot dozens, maybe hundreds. Reason with that street, you are a complete #$^[email protected]&

So now I'm the bad guy, because a group of radicals killed the children of a GROUP of "RULE BY FORCE", socio-communist?

You must be one of the brightest people on the planet!!

You and Jaguar, must be stroking each other, for confirmation, that your NOT BOTH complete #$^@& s!! GOOD LUCK!!

I guess, you can't comprehend what this means?

quote:

far as the "RIGHT" path goes. That is a matter of perspective, of those playing the game. I personally base, what is "RIGHT", by that which is Moral, and that which would adhere to MORAL principle; however, That which will be done, will be done, based on POLITICAL manipulation. What will be considered "RIGHT", will be considered such, based on propaghanda and manipulation dictated by the RUSSIAN Government.


Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

quote:

Originally posted by street:

quote:

Well, they started shooting hostages so Russian troops stormed the school. They have shot dozens, maybe hundreds. Reason with that street, you are a complete #$^[email protected]&

So now I'm the bad guy, because a group of radicals killed the children of a GROUP of "RULE BY FORCE", socio-communist?

You must be one of the brightest people on the planet!!

You and bush, must be stroking each other, for confirmation, that your NOT BOTH complete #$^@& s!!


Then they should declare open war with the Russians and have the adult men and woman fighting it not killing children to get a solution to their problems. At least target adult facilities and keep the children out of it that way. Don't these terrorists know killing children will only enrage the Russians and will stiffen Russia's resolve.

A little Chechen and Russian history

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

quote:

Then they should declare open war with the Russians and have the adult men and woman fighting it not killing children to get a solution to their problems. At least target adult facilities and keep the children out of it that way. Don't these terrorists know killing children will only enrage the Russians and will stiffen Russia's resolve.


already been tried...

They do as I would do...if standing against an unconquorable and oppressive ENEMY. An enemy who has NO intention of negotiating(THIS is what brought it to this level), or releasing its oppresive force.

You do what you CAN...to inflict ANY AND ALL harm upon them that you can....and EMBRACE the inevitable.

When you remove ALL options, other than DEATH...Your enemy will embrace it, if only to take you with him.

If one cannot comprehend this, then buying into the "GOOD GUY" russian theory, and the USSR's RIGHT to oppress others...is what One CHOOSES.

Go for it, but in MY book....those who fall for such propaghanda, are the REAL IDIOTS!!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The real problem, with this whole discussion, is finding a common understanding, in definition of terms.

I was trained, in the United States,a form of GORILLA warfare. This includes everything, from planting explosives and blowing up buildings, to out right assassinations. We were NOT, told to evacuate a 5 story building, of women and children, before detonating, the explosives. Our ONLY concern, was elimination of the specified targets. Now, is this "TERRORISM". Your damn right it is....by the BUSH definition.

Our country, has been REDEFINING, its vocabulary, so that, ANY who stand against a GOVERNMENT's will, is a TERRORIST. This is a form of reason, that is as illogical as you can get.

Under the broad anti-terrorist laws, imposed, within the UNITED STATES, in 1993....merely passing out political action fliers...informing

the public of closed door political meetings, and their intent...is cohersing ANTI-GOVERNMENT sentiment; thus, deemed as TERRORISM.

You EXTREME right wingers, need to wake up!

Gorilla Warfare, is the ONLY means to stand against an OVERWHELMING force. Regardless, of

one's opinion concerning those methods employed. These actions,DO NOT, dictate, that those fighting such an overwhelming enemy are TERRORIST, whose stand, and purpose, is of NO validity..Nor , does it dictate, they do NOT deserve to be heard and only require execution.

And if it is, what does one designate, cohert operations, which disrupt and influence a targeted government(I have done this very thing, FOR the U.S.)...not to mention OUT right attack on another government? ARE these NOT an act of terrorism in themselves...too?

Maybe, we should impliment OPERATION CHECHEN FREEDOM, and PRE-EMPTIVELY attack RUSSIA. Why not?

IT would be just as "JUSTIFIED", as this FARCE, bush has demonstrated within IRAQ.

Tell me I am in the world of illusion?

Some people, REALLY do NOT have an inkling, as to what is and what is'nt.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Please sign in to comment

You will be able to leave a comment after signing in



Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this  

×