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quote:

Originally posted by LostInSpace:

there are more I can give you. There are alot of college kids I know who are Ace students but are dumb as a brick when it comes to common sense and alot of other areas too.

Oh, you mean like Street?

Or is it actually the other way around, you tell me LIS, because I can't seem to think for myself, I know because I was told that.

And the person that told me that MUST be so much smarter then I am, because he said so....

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quote:

Originally posted by Jaguar:

quote:

Originally posted by LostInSpace:

there are more I can give you. There are alot of college kids I know who are Ace students but are dumb as a brick when it comes to common sense and alot of other areas too.

1:Oh, you mean like Street?

2: I know because I was told that.

3: And the person that told me that MUST be so much smarter then I am, because he said so....


1:

2: Well you are in good company with in that respect.

3: Again, refer to the my post about grades. These guys had the same problem. People thinking they are smarter than you telling you that you are dumb.

Anyway not to take this thread off topic but I thought you'd find this very interesting Notable Homeschoolers. Acutally, I think I might have posted this link for you a while back it's looking awefully familiar. . Most notable is Benjamin Franklin only attended school from the age of 8-10. Like I said school isn't everything to judge a person's intelligence by.

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I happen to believe that the US should have the ability to act pre-emptively. I believe that the President's hands should not be tied when dealing with threats. Where Bush's "doctrine", where it regards pre-emption falls flat on it's face is in it's lack of consideration with regard to two factors that must be well thought. One the US must be justified in its actions both at home and ABROAD. If you are going to preach morality you better exercise it. The war in Iraq is neither moral nor justified. The facts are what the world sees and with NO WMDs (regardless of the gnashing of teeth of the neo-cons) we appear to be opportunists. Secondly, we must understand that in acting in such a way we are opening ourselves up for a "what's good for the goose is good for the gander" philosophy on the global stage. Iran threatened a pre-emptive strike against our troops in Iraq saying they felt threatened by them. If that is justification for our wars why would it not be enough justification for theirs?

North Korea and other nations are acquiring nuclear weapons precisely for this reason. Obviously if a nation has them our balls suddenly shrivvel and lodge themselves in our bellies. If I were a nutcase dictator or a communist regime I would be damned sure I had a nuke or two and the means to menace the world. I mean look at how effectively it has defanged Bush.

Now with regard to North Korea, I have to laugh at the people saying that we need these negotiations to involve China. It shows me that you have very short memories. It also shows me that some of you have a very limited grasp of politics. First of all let's just get China off the table. I will remind you all that China relished holding one of our reconnaisance aircrafts and its crew under Bush's watch. They have no feelings of benevolence for this nation and to think that they are aiding us and not secretly saying to North Korea "Get what you can out of these guys," is sheer idiocy. I love you guys that say, "We don't need the UN!" but suddenly we need CHINA?! Where the hell is your consistency?

Now onto North Korea. I have to laugh because somehow I think you guys are missing the point of what it is that North Korea is doing. North Korea did not acquire nukes for the sake of going to war with us. Quite the contrary, they have obtained these weapons to EXTORT US (and to a lesser degree Japan). All they want is MONEY. They want us to talk to them alone (and I think it would be better for us if we did) because they know WE HAVE THE CASH. This is nothing more than a Sopranos episode being played out on the world stage. They want us to PAY THEM so that they can feed their people, continue to maintain their power and appear to have bested the US. END OF STORY. When you involve China you just have another hand out looking for something in return, like I dunno... Taiwan maybe? I can just imagine the poor bastards involved in these negotiations that are hearing, "We'll help with Korea but we'll also need to crack down on Taiwan," it's a damn nightmare.

Whoever deals with North Korea is going to end up in the final analysis paying off that pot belly dictator and if it's Bush, Jaguar and his ilk will tout it as a great outcome. If it is Kerry that ponies up with the cash it will be cowardice. I on the otherhand will accept that it is the reality of the world. North Korea doesn't believe that it can destroy us, it just has to talk the talk and then wait for the check to clear.

Look at Pakistan and their boy Khan. Nomad is dead on, there has been no outcry from this government to see justice done in regard to this man. Why? Because frankly we can't demand jack of the Pakistanis. We aren't benevolent we're just STUCK. These are our great allies and if the matter was looked into I am sure that the Pakistani government KNEW what was going on and likely collected a hefty sum exporting their nuclear expertise.

Bilateral negotiations with North Korea would be better than no negotiations and Pyongyang knows that we won't get serious with them until it is down to us and them. When I buy a car I allow the salesman to make my first offer, after that I tell the guy to get me the sales manager rather than indulge them in their stupid back and forth. North Korea is simply demanding the same thing and until we agree the threats will continue and we will be perceived as weak and indecisive.

We are paying for Russia to dismantle and contain their nuclear materials, we will have to do the same with North Korea while stating plainly for the world to hear (and likely through binding treaty) that we will not attack them.

Bush has not been a leader in dealing with North Korea. He has stuck his head in the sand and allowed the rhetoric to continue which has only made our asian allies nervous as all hell.

Peace

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Takvah,

Some of it was right, but MOST of it was wrong.

That's OK, you are showing some sense of coming around, just not enough.

I should not expect more, so I won't.

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quote:

Originally posted by street:

It appears the guru has spoken..which cancels out all truth, but bush truth...

Just counts out all opinion truth, and brings about FACTUAL truth.

Factual truth, nothing more, nothing less.

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Well people, time to look up the word "Fitna", because it is happening.

The terrorists are strangling themselves, they are beginning to come apart at the seams, because the Muslim majority do not see them as militants anymore, but as murderers and warriors against Islam.

We took the fight to them, and they are now killing 10 times as many muslims as they are Americans, and the muslims are getting a bit angry at them.

The terrorists are not getting nearly the support they were when they were here in the US and just in Israel and other places killing infidels, now they are killing Muslims, ON PURPOSE, and that will not be put up with for long.

We took the fight to their homes, and the terrorists are now being shown for the animals that they are, to the very people that used to support them.

The Bush doctrine is working, just as it was supposed to. We took the fight to the enemy, and now that we are fighting them where they used to get their support, their support is realizing that maybe it wasn't such a good idea.

The end of the war on terror will not be because we killed all of the terrorists, but because Islam itself has rejected them.

It's about time for an Islamic reformation, and it looks to be happening.

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quote:

Originally posted by Jaguar:

Well people, time to look up the word "Fitna", because it is happening.

The terrorists are strangling themselves, they are beginning to come apart at the seams, because the Muslim majority do not see them as militants anymore, but as murderers and warriors against Islam.

We took the fight to them, and they are now killing 10 times as many muslims as they are Americans, and the muslims are getting a bit angry at them.

The terrorists are not getting nearly the support they were when they were here in the US and just in Israel and other places killing infidels, now they are killing Muslims, ON PURPOSE, and that will not be put up with for long.

We took the fight to their homes, and the terrorists are now being shown for the animals that they are, to the very people that used to support them.

The Bush doctrine is working, just as it was supposed to. We took the fight to the enemy, and now that we are fighting them where they used to get their support, their support is realizing that maybe it wasn't such a good idea.

The end of the war on terror will not be because we killed all of the terrorists, but because Islam itself has rejected them.

It's about time for an Islamic reformation, and it looks to be happening.

I hope, for the sake of humanity, that you are correct. Don't bother to respond as there is no need to reiterate your point, let's just wait and see what happens and hope for the best.

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Thats not surprising Grizzle...

I saw it to while watching the debate, and the rules state that NOTHING is to be taken onto the podium

Kinda make's you wonder why one of the camera men didn't bother to inform one of the debate offical's...

It's also just like how that commentator was asking Bush all the tough questions and how, when the debate was over, when that guy walked up to Kerry and winked, yet completely ignored Bush

Political Beurocratic Socailist is right...

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honestly I wouldn't trust either of them with a rock. bush would throw it and kerry would drop it.

but I do know that everyone I knew had a job before bush got in and started screwing with the world.

and I find the fact that bush gets a great deal of money from oil very suspicious in his actions. both in attacking iraq, and in not doing anythin about the gas prices. the subject has been on everyones minds except bush's I find that hugly suspicious. I'll vote kerry though eventually were bound to find someone that knows what they are doing, even if it's several elections from now.

http://www.house.gov/georgemiller/middlecl...ddleclass2.html

strait from a government website. heh, but since when do we trust "them"

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Where Bush gets money for raising prices of oil is beyond me.

He has NO stock in ANY oil company, and receives NO personal income based on the price of oil.

So where you got this information is beyond me.

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quote:

Originally posted by Jaguar:

Where Bush gets money for raising prices of oil is beyond me.

He has NO stock in ANY oil company, and receives NO personal income based on the price of oil.

So where you got this information is beyond me.

Favors among friends. *wink* *wink* *nudge* *nudge*

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KERRY WINS THE DEBATE HANDS DOWN

Ceci Connolly: ÔÇ£It almost seemed as if the President ran out of material about two-thirds

of the way through the debate.ÔÇØ [Fox News, 9/30/04]

Mark Shields: ÔÇ£I thought the president tired clearly in the end.ÔÇØ [CNN, 9/30/04]

William Kristol: "I don't think he did as much as he could have to really make the

fundamental case for the Bush conduct on the war on terror." [Fox News, 9/30/04]

CBSNews.com: "Mr. Bush appeared perturbed when Kerry leveled some of his charges,

scowling at times and looking away in apparent disgust at others." [CBSNews.com,

9/30/04]

Mark Whitaker: "I think Kerry won on style in this debate." [CNN, 9/30/04]

Jeff Greenfield: "John Kerry looked as presidential as the president." [CNN, 9/30/04]

Joe Scarborough: "As far as the debate goes, I don't see how anybody could look at

this debate and not score this a very clear win on points for John Kerry." [MSNBC,

9/30/04]

Joe Scarborough: "It was John Kerry's best performance ever." [MSNBC, 9/30/04]

Kate OÔÇÖBeirne: "I thought the President was repetitive and reactive."

[NationalReview.com, 9/30/04]

Jonah Goldberg: "The Bush campaign miscalculated on having the first night be foreign

policy night." [NationalReview.com, 9/30/04]

"Bush appeared perturbed when Kerry leveled some of his charges, scowling at times

and looking away in apparent disgust at others." [Washington Post, 9/30/04]

John McCain: "I think that Kerry did a good job." [MSNBC, 9/30/04]

David Gergen: ÔÇ£There were times toward the end, especially in the last half, when he

seemed tired. It almost seemed like...he didnÔÇÖt want to be there at times.ÔÇØ [CNN,

9/30/04]

David Gergen: ÔÇ£John Kerry was the one who had the most to prove and I think he proved

it. And that was that heÔÇÖs knowledgeable about international affairs and he can make

his points in a concise, compelling way.ÔÇØ [CNN, 9/30/04]

Jorge Ramos: ÔÇ£Talking about style and substance, I think we have a race right now.ÔÇØ

[CNN, 9/30/04]

Jorge Ramos: ÔÇ£When President Bush was looking at his notes and moving his papers,

well those were very awkward moments, visually I think those moments might have a

negative impact on President Bush.ÔÇØ [CNN, 9/30/04]

Mark Shields: ÔÇ£I think credibility was there at the core, and the president could not

admit that he had made mistakes or miscalculations.ÔÇØ [CNN, 9/30/04]

Alan Colmes: ÔÇ£I think Sen. Kerry, tonight, did a very good job, clearly stating his

position.ÔÇØ [Fox News, 9/30/04]

Howard Fineman: "I think he had about 35 minutes of material for a 90 minute debate,

and he kept having to do the same stuff over again." [MSNBC, 10/1/04]

STREET: "PETE AND REPEAT WERE SITTING ON A FENCE...PETE GOT KNOCKED OFF....WHO WAS LEFT?"

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Bush lost his lead and now trails... that says it all about who won. People just wanted reassurance from Kerry and they got that (I know I did) and from Bush most just didn't want to be embarrassed for him. Unfortunately the President could not even meet those limited expectations.

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I said the same things myself Street, or were you not reading?

Then again, once I took a closer look, Kerry didn't SAY anything, there was NO substance.

THe debate was a draw, Kerry and his empty rhetoric, and Bush with his AHH, and hesitation.

Neither came out very well in the debate as far as I am concerned, although Kerry had the greater presence.

Although all the little undecided that couldn't make up their minds without a roadmap don't care about substance, they care about looks, does he look or act presidential. Kerry has it down pat, but Bush is gonna do a LOT better tonight, he is going to go on offense, he let Kerry get the offense at the beginning of the last debate, and the Townhall is where Bush is very strong, so tonight should be very revealing.

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I enjoy reading both of your posts Jag and street, but can we please tone down the antagonism? It really disrupts the flow of these threads. I don't want anyone banned and would still like to think we can all exchange ideas without being labeled as one thing or another simply because we don't agree.

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I see, can't fight me with facts so instead are going to try and threaten me to shut me up.

Poor Street, you getting desperate or what?

Desperation is not pretty at all.

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quote:

Originally posted by Supreme Cmdr:

You guys are pushing me. I don't like being pushed.

I'm done for the day SC, this has gotten a little too crazy, even for me.

Sorry

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I believe it's the intense polarization the country is feeling. this message board is a microcosm of what is happening within the country. So, justly there are some very intense feelings being thrown around, which is why I have stayed away from it for a while. Because I was worried that I might say something that may get me removed from this message board. I am happy to say that I have found peace. May the best man win (I will be voting for neither, so in my estimation the best man cannot win). I will always have an open mind and I will always enjoy conversating on these message boards with my brothers Street and Jag. By the way, if Bush loses, I have to scrub the bus yard with a toothbrush (you GOTTA love THAT Jag).

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