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John Prezioso

Jury Consulted Bible During Sentencing Phase

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I find this rather hilarious that they consulted the bible because if they are true god fearing and bible following citizens they should have quit being a juror:

"Judge not, and ye shall not be judged: condemn not, and ye shall not be condemned: forgive, and ye shall be forgiven"

They should have checked their religious beliefs at the door and base their decisions soley on our current law system. I hope the Prosecutors are successful in this case.

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LostInSpace,

What I find sad are people like you that obviously haven't studied the complete Bible but quote passages from it "out of context" to bolster their opinions or positions.

Being personally judgmental towards others is indeed improper. None of us are to judge others because none of us are perfect.

On the other hand we all have to make judgements. I choose not to do many things and choose not to associate with those that do things the Bible calls sins.

That doesn't mean that I am judging other people. Such judgmentalism is needless, immoral conduct already condemns the person committing the act(s).

Regardless, that in not the case when "called upon" to server in a crimnal trial. Such duty is a civil obligation.

Hopefully such jurors are honest God fearing people that will intellegently make their judgments based upon the evidence presented and the overall precept presented in the Bible.

Bible knowing and beleiving people know that we are physical and spritual beings.

Socially, we have to put limits upon the conduct of our physical fellow humans.

Those that rape, murder, or molest their fellow beings must be stopped and punished. It is foolish to quote "judge not lest ye be judge" in such cases. Simply foolish. Society must protect itself from such immoral minded people and their sick loathsome acts.

Even if a lawful jury condemns a convicted criminal to death.... his or her actual punishment will come before a Holy God during the Final Judgment of us all.

Before that time, we as civilized people must enforce ,what we deem as, our laws of conduct.

Because of my Biblical beliefs, I find no problem in sending a convicted murderer child molester or such to his or her death to await a spritual judgement later.

Also, society (we) shouldn't have to pay to house and feed such reprobates in a cage for decades.

Now speaking as a retire Marine, "Take out the Trash".

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quote:

1. Those that rape, murder, or molest their fellow beings must be stopped and punished

2. Society must protect itself from such immoral minded people and their sick loathsome acts.


Tell THAT to the liberal court system (Michel Jackson anyone?)

Honestly though, when you are called to a jury you are told (or at least I was) that my religous belief's are tossed out the door here, this is so that you don't let you're belief's determine you're call

Personally, if you murder someone, rape someone, or any other unjust and immortal act's, then you deserve nothing more than to have you're feet cased in cement and tossed off a bridge

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I find it sad that people who defer to Bible beliefs are apparently viewed by our court system as incapable of performing the basic citizen-duty of being jurors. Aren't God-fearing people Americans, too? Last I checked, we are still one nation under God.

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Guest Remo Williams

What is it they ask a person to do when they take the witness chair to testify? I believe itÔÇÖs to swear on a bible to tell the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth. Which is a big no-no for those that actual know the scripture within.

So if the court uses the bible to enforce the belief of truth whatÔÇÖs the problem with the jury consulting it also?

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quote:

Originally posted by Prez:

I find it sad that people who defer to Bible beliefs are apparently viewed by our court system as incapable of performing the basic citizen-duty of being jurors. Aren't God-fearing people Americans, too? Last I checked, we are still one nation under God.

That's not what the contested issue is. The issue is they should have based their sentence recommendation on the law alone and nothing else. It's truly sad that people cannot perform their civic duties without consulting a book that's open to millions of interpretations.

quote:

Originally posted by Remo Williams:

So if the court uses the bible to enforce the belief of truth whatÔÇÖs the problem with the jury consulting it also?

Should a free, multi religious and tolerant society endorse one God and one Religious belief in it's court system (or any government agency). If I was a Muslim, Hindu or Buddhist etc., I would find it rather offensive if I was made to swear on another religion's bible. I think they should change that completely to a non religious reference. I would much prefer this:

While holding one hand over your heart and one hand raised

ÔÇ£I solemnly swear to tell the whole truth and nothing but the truth on conditions of severe legal action if otherwise.ÔÇØ

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Guest Remo Williams

quote:

Should a free, multi religious and tolerant society endorse one God and one Religious belief in it's court system (or any government agency). If I was a Muslim, Hindu or Buddhist etc., I would find it rather offensive if I was made to swear on another religion's bible. I think they should change that completely to a non religious reference. I would much prefer this:


Whether you are a Christian, Muslim, or Jew its the same God anyway just different scripture or addition to scripture, but that's besides the point. I wouldn't object to the removal of swearing on what is not yours from the court system since its a sin anyway as I believe.

quote:

While holding one hand over your heart and one hand raised

ÔÇ£I solemnly swear to tell the whole truth and nothing but the truth on conditions of severe legal action if otherwise.ÔÇØ

LOL! Ok that works.

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quote:

Originally posted by LostInSpace:

I find this rather hilarious that they consulted the bible because if they are true god fearing and bible following citizens they should have quit being a juror:

"Judge not, and ye shall not be judged: condemn not, and ye shall not be condemned: forgive, and ye shall be forgiven"

They should have checked their religious beliefs at the door and base their decisions soley on our current law system. I hope the Prosecutors are successful in this case.

You are taking this completely out of context. Our entire political system and court system is Biblically based.

The types of things that it refers to in the Bible when it says;

"Judge not, and ye shall not be judged: condemn not, and ye shall not be condemned: forgive, and ye shall be forgiven"

is things like Prejudice, malice and treating others harshly, more so because of their station in life or race than anything else. If you would bother to read the Bible, you would clearly understand that God DOES in fact intend for those who have done wrong to be punished for their crimes. He clearly outlines in the Bible how these proceedings are to be taken place.

Why do you think that when Jesus was brought before the Priests on charges of heresy, he questioned them as to why they had brought him before them in the middle of the night, and not during the day for all to see? Where proper witnesses could be questioned? There were already certain laws in the Bible to handle these types of affairs and they were clearly breaking the rules.

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quote:

Originally posted by Darkling:

You are taking this completely out of context. Our entire political system and court system is Biblically based.


Is it? And here I thought all this time that it was more based on the Ancient Greek and Ancient Roman court system.

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quote:

Originally posted by Remo Williams:

Both actually.

Heh, I was in the process of editing that when you responded. It is as it should have originally been.

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Guest Remo Williams

quote:

Originally posted by LostInSpace:

quote:

Originally posted by Remo Williams:

Both actually.

Heh, I was in the process of editing that when you responded. It is as it should have originally been.


Thats cool I was a little vague anyway I meant both you and Darkling are correct.

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quote:

Originally posted by Remo Williams:

quote:

Originally posted by LostInSpace:

quote:

Originally posted by Remo Williams:

Both actually.

Heh, I was in the process of editing that when you responded. It is as it should have originally been.


Thats cool I was a little vague anyway I meant both you and Darkling are correct.
True since our legal system is also a carry over from the English system (which at the time was primarily christian) as well. I think that's where most of the christian influences come from in our court sytem.

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Guest Remo Williams

Of course considering were the founding fathers came from and the primary reason why they came here.

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The evidence, by all accounts, is the only thing that the jurors considered in declaring the accused guilty. The Bible was consulted during the sentencing phase. I see nothing in the world wrong with this. And Lost, you are, in my opinion, misrepresenting the concept of not judging lest you be judged.

As individuals, on a spiritual level, we cannot sit and itemize someone else's faults without having our own laid before us. The parable of the splinter and the plank is relevant here. We can be totally oblivious to our own shortcomings while happily detail what is wrong with everyone else.

Man's duty to justice, however is illustrated throughout the Old Testament. God allows men of righteousness to sit in judgement of others not because they were without sin, but because they were doing God's work by upholding justice throughout Israel. This kind of dichotomy is prevalent throughout the Bible. God decreed that a man could not take it upon himself to kill another man, and yet he helped the Israelites, the NATION of Israel, conquer their enemies through war.

I for one am comforted knowing that people still take the duty of being jurors seriously enough to consult the HIGHEST authority.

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Guest Remo Williams

quote:

I for one am comforted knowing that people still take the duty of being jurors seriously enough to consult the HIGHEST authority.


Indeed, I couldn't agree more well said Prez

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quote:

Originally posted by LostInSpace:

I hope the Prosecutors are successful in this case.

Egads, I'm surprised no one caught me on this one. That should have been unsuccessful. Even though I do think the guy should fry for this crime, I totally disagree with the way the jurors went about it.

I've been making a lot of spelling boo-boo's lately.

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quote:

This kind of dichotomy is prevalent throughout the Bible. God decreed that a man could not take it upon himself to kill another man, and yet he helped the Israelites, the NATION of Israel, conquer their enemies through war.


All the more reason, RELIGEON has NO place in Government rule and law.

What you stand behind, by justifying the opposite of "THOU SHALT NOT KILL" cammandment would be ok, if you were GOD. As it is, you are taking upon yourself... a MAN... the JUDGEMENT of GOD.

That is as warped a view of the biblical teachings of Christ... as the radical muslums who tie bombs to their butt and kill in the name of "ALLAH"

BOTH views are TWISTED forms of logic applied to problems within our world societies, based on RELIGEOUS indoctrination.

pure phooey hogwash

I personally think ALL religeous DOCTRINAL perspectives should be allowed to the individual, but outlawed in government and FAMILY and institutionalized teaching enviroments should present ALL doctinal beliefs, in an objective and abstract presentation.....but thats just MY opinion.

The INSANITY of religeous logic, lies at the base of ALL extreme views brought to manifistation by EVERY radical demonstration throughout history....PERIOD

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Street: The duty of judgement of other men was given to men BY GOD.

How do you tell a juror to not use his or her religious beliefs to decide someones fate? Our jury's would me made up exclusively of atheists!

You apparently have something against religious people. We are not incapable of making a decision based on facts, evidence, and law just because we have a different set of beliefs. Wow, talk about intolerant....

quote:

That is as warped a view of the biblical teachings of Christ... as the radical muslums who tie bombs to their butt and kill in the name of "ALLAH"

Clearly your ability to make comparisons is warped beyond all reason. Don't EVER put words in my mouth and say I would ever presume to speak for God.

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Damn-ran out of time to edit...

Street: What is "extreme" about putting a man to death for the rape and murder of an innocent woman? The Bible, not me, is what decrees the penalty for this is death. By the teachings of Christ, we are required to forgive this man, true, but that is completelty separate from "justice".

"Render unto Caesar what is Caesar's..." Remember this line? The Bible tells us as Christians we have a moral obligation to do exactly what our civic duties dictate. (i.e. use the evidence above all else to determine innocent or guilt and punishment). Christians imo make the BEST jurors.

And for the love of all that is holy, please do not hijack this thread with another diatribe on Iraq, Bush, and your superiority to the rest of us.

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quote:

By the teachings of Christ, we are required to forgive this man, true, but that is completelty separate from "justice".

Then it SHOULD be kept SEPERATE...jeesh!

quote:

"Render unto Caesar what is Caesar's..." Remember this line?

Yes, I remember, and it is specific to TAXATION!! duh! NOT sitting on a council of JUDGEMENT, with EXECUTION as the guilty verdict. That is to be left up to GOD. No one is saying, it is wrong to stop the individual from more atrocities...but the "THOU SHALT NOT KILL", is NOT to be ignored, just to justify judicial participation in an ACT as SINFUL as that which was committed by the one being judged by SINNERS.

Let the DEAD bury the DEAD...lol... is more attuned to the actions of ceaser and his judicial acts as a governing force.

quote:

And for the love of all that is holy, please do not hijack this thread with another diatribe on Iraq, Bush, and your superiority to the rest of us.

First I have NEVER hijacked a thread in my life.

Second, I have NEVER implied I was superior to the REST of those on this board.

Third, i find it offensive to be JUDGED and ACCUSED of such, when MY entire RESPONSE to ANYTHING written in these threads has been directly in regard to Subjects which were ALL READY brought up within the thread.

And as far as IRAQ goes...(YOU brought it up) and it's relationship to this whole idea(as there is a connection). Is ROME was the occupying military rulers, just as America is occupying and ruling in IRAQ. And the RESULT of the ROMAN persecution of the CHRISTIANS caused christianity to flourish exponentially for over 2 thousand yeas AFTER.

You will see an EXACT replay, with the muslum RADICALS, in that proliferation of those who are ( or percieved as) persecuted will spread their ideology with immense conviction. IT WILL GROW.

Hard to believe someone who claims to be christian, is so blind they cant see the connection.Bush is a bumbling Idiot...He is NO christian, as Christian: is CHRIST LIKE.

Many shall call upon my name......I know them not.

sound familiar?

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Guest

First off, it is NOT thou shalt not kill, it is actually, Thou shalt not murder..

Huge Difference.

THe death penalty is a valid punishment to Christianity.

Second, Christians of ANY denomination are some of the BEST neighbors that I have ever had.

I am a Deist, but I appreciate the fact that some people, a vast majority in fact neeed a religion to give their lives a solid foundation, so to say that Christians are intolerant or whatever is a crock.

Also, the ROmans may have persecuted Christians for a few hundred years, but what actually made Christianity a major religion, WAS NOT Roman intolerance, but Roman acceptance.

Emperor Constantine made Christianity the official religion, once that acceptance occurred, Christianity spread like wildfire.

SO, it was NOT intolerance that caused the spread of Christianity, but TOLERANCE that caused it to flourish.

So, your comparison is total and unmitigated BS....

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Nice try street. You are completely wrong on ALL counts however.

1) The given passage IS in reference to taxes, true, but this and other passages clearly tell Christians that they have a MORAL obligation to uphold the laws they are bound to in society. Jesus was making an over-arching proclamation of His policy on civic duty. "Render unto Caesar what is Caesar's, render unto God what is God's" tells us that as citizens we follow the rule of governments, but as people of God, we follow the rule of God. It shouldn't have to be stated which takes precedence. You will NOT win this one, I am afraid...

quote:

Second, I have NEVER implied I was superior to the REST of those on this board.

2) Your constant condescension to me and others who might disagree with you proves you totally and utterly wrong... AGAIN. While you never personally attack, your posts are replete with hateful and antagonistic rhetoric intended to insult anyone who disagrees with you, supports Bush, and is pro-death penalty.

quote:

Many shall call upon my name......I know them not.

sound familiar?


3) Becuase we don't adhere to your paranoid obsession, we can't be Christians, huh? Who are YOU to judge what we are? So Christians can't sit in judgement of a murderer because they defer to Biblical principals, but you can sit in judgement of Christians who don't subscribe to your short-sighted interpretation of Scripture? Your hypocracy is evident, as usual.

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