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Cruis.In

Americas Army

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quote:

Originally posted by Cruis.In:

quote:

DO NOT project what you think, onto those that actually wear the uniform.

absurd.

quote:

In 1986, when I was in basic training, we lost 5 guys because they couldn't hack it in the first 2 weeks.

Less then honarable, because they didn't finish their TOS, (term of service) and that was that.

are you for real? You need a lesson in humility my friend, humble yourself first then judge others, you think that those 5 or any others are LESS honourable than you because they didn't make it at being a soldier? That is just rubbish.

From that statement alone it is easy to infer that you believe you're better, more important and more full of 'honour' just because you are a soldier.

quote:

When I hear people spout off the nonsense that you spewed forth, I get angry, because that is a MAJOR putdown to our military forces that are in harms way.

Saying that they some might be human and that some might not know what they are doing is a put down to them? A put down to who, you? You who believe in the cause and the rest? It is no put down to say how you feel, and if a soldier is tired, and wants to go home, does that make him less than honourable?

Your anger clouds your reasonability.


First of all Cruis.in, you may like to be all humble and that garbage, but it's crap...OK, just that.

I do NOT have to be humble, I know what I can do, I know what I know, and humility is for liberals and their pansy ansy crap with diversity.

second of all, that is what the DISCHARGE was called, "Less then honorable" discharge, that is it's title!! It is NOT something that I made some sort of judgement or some other garbage that you are spouting, that is what that particluar discharge is CALLED.

Please learn about the military and it's terms before you start attacking me for not being humble enough in your eyes.

Talk about blind judgement calls. SHEESH.

Get a grip on reality...

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quote:

From that statement alone it is easy to infer that you believe you're better, more important and more full of 'honour' just because you are a soldier.


He is. At least to those of us who revere what sacrifices a soldier makes and the nobility of his dedication.

No one says you can't disagree with him, Cruis. But you have to understand, the American Fighting man is an intensely proud and loyal beast. And they don't have much tolerance for those who don't cut it. ANYONE could be a soldier; all they need is the motivation and the heart to stick with it when things get tough.

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And the operative word is were, not are, I spent 4 years in the US Army, but my oath to my constitution lives on, and the brotherhood of soldiers also lives on.

Someone puts down a soldier, or a veteran, and I come to the defense, because they are my brothers, in experience, if not in fact.

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Just another example of how 'might is right'.

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That is not the case at all. If you have dissenting opinions, VOICE THEM! This thread to my knowledge was not about who is right and who is wrong. It's about YOUR OPINION about the overall attutude of the soldiers in combat.

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Guest Remo Williams

quote:

Originally posted by Prez:

That is not the case at all. If you have dissenting opinions, VOICE THEM! This thread to my knowledge was not about who is right and who is wrong. It's about YOUR OPINION about the overall attutude of the soldiers in combat.

He makes a habit of littering topics with these pointless one-liners usually after jaguars posts.

I've all ready contacted a few other admins about it and he'll be going on vacation soon if it persists.

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quote:

I've all ready contacted a few other admins about it and he'll be going on vacation soon if it persists.

Fine.

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Come on Cc. We don't want you to go! But rather than post something like that, post your opinion, and back it up with facts or rational reasoning. You can't always be in the majority. Anyway, debating from the minority is an excellent way to improve debating skills and it builds character, too!

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True.

But the thing that bugs me about you military dudes is you are 'way too full of yourselves'.

You think you are the only thing that matters,

that whatever the military does is justified and perfect.

Well....I don't agree.

WW2,of course.

Korea...Hmm..Ok

Viet Nam...A total waste of human life.

Iqaq....an asswipe trying to prove his father wrong.

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I said "opinion based on fact or rational reasoning."

Military "dudes" are not way too full of themselves - they are PROUD of what they do and have done. The fact that they have may been involved in questionable operations does not lessen their stature at all. And a soldier is all too aware that what the military does is not always perfect. But nothing is, my friend. A good soldier accepts what he can't control, and does his best by himself, his comrades, and his country.

It is about belonging to something bigger than yourself; something that may not always do things perfectly but empowers you to make a difference in the world, and be a part of a group that is more than the sum of its parts.

I think you need to lighten up.

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quote:

Originally posted by Jaguar:

First of all Cruis.in, you may like to be all humble and that garbage, but it's crap...OK, just that.

I do NOT have to be humble, I know what I can do, I know what I know, and humility is for liberals and their pansy ansy crap with diversity.


It might be less offensive to some if you made such statements with a little less certitude.

Humility is a trait to be respected, It is most certainly NOT reserved for "pansy ansy liberals" as you have stated. Some of the greatest individuals in history have also been the most humble.

Cruis.In and CC I also agree with your opinions, but it might help to understand that being in the military and being good at it requires this sort of bravado to survive. Unfortunately it tends to carry over into every day life and can be offensive to some. I don't like it much either, but that's the way it is.

Of course it becomes something different when the attitude is used to squelch those that speak in opposition... these sorts of threads always devolve into threats of bans etc. Such is life in this forum.

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quote:

Cruis.In and CC I also agree with your opinions, but it might help to understand that being in the military and being good at it requires this sort of bravado to survive. Unfortunately it tends to carry over into every day life and can be offensive to some. I don't like it much either, but that's the way it is.


That's a really sound observation, Grizzle. The point about humility is good, too. But you must understand it's hard to be humble when your so damn good!!

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quote:

Originally posted by Prez:

But you must understand it's hard to be humble when your so damn good!!

ROFLMAO!!

HOOYAH!!!

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Thats just the point.

Oh my god,when we have to fight a real army,it's gonna be a disaster.

Air and sea power will be our only recourse.

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Yep...I'm just an idiot.

Hopefully everything I think and say will never happen.

Hopefully...

Iraq was not a good test.

What happens if we have to fight China?

Of course,it will probably go nuclear before ground troops are involved.

In which case we are all 'crispy critters'.

Edit: I had the weirdest dream the other night....and it didn't look good for our side.

Yeah,just a dream.

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quote:

Originally posted by Cc:

Thats just the point.

Oh my god,when we have to fight a real army,it's gonna be a disaster.

Air and sea power will be our only recourse.

A real Army?

ROFLMAO!!

We are the ONLY ones WITH a REAL Army, if the PC crowd doesn't neuter them like the rest of the worlds democratic armies.

UK, yeah, they are tough and professional, but they have been neutered by their government, Australia, same.

THe only Army that is worth a thing is OUR Army, it is the largest, best trained army in the world.

China is still afraid to face us one on one, because we can and will kick their socialist behinds, even though they outnumber us about 10 to 1.

You really are hilarious sometimes CC...

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quote:

Originally posted by Cc:

Yep...I'm just an idiot.

Hopefully everything I think and say will never happen.

Hopefully...

Iraq was not a good test.

What happens if we have to fight China?

Of course,it will probably go nuclear before ground troops are involved.

In which case we are all 'crispy critters'.

Thank Clinton for that, he allowed the technology transfers that allowed them to get where they are. and NO, NOT all of us are crispy critters, only those of us on the west coast.

1 in 10 of China's missiles will actually make it, so I am NOT too worried about it, at the same time, it would be sucidal for China to do it, because we still have THOUSANDS of nukes, that will melt China to an unlivable state for about 40 years.

It is called the MAD doctrine, and it is still enforceable, although China would suffer far more then we would.

Because we would NOT retaliate on a one on one ratio. We'd just launch a boatload to their 5 or 6, and they would be toast, and Taiwan would have some radioactivity problems from the fallout, but then again, what's a little radiation to security forever...

Oh, and BTW, Iraq has been and will continue to be a RAGING success. It has worked, but the media is doing it's best to make it seem otherwise.

The military is handling this war, a LOT different then the micromanaging by politicians that was going on during Vietnam.

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Guest Remo Williams

Forum policy is to ban anyone on the spot that restarts a locked topic. I will over look it this time due to your tenure please do not do it again Cruis.in.

Posts moved!

quote:

Originally posted by Cruis.In:

The topic is locked before I can respond. And if its locked because of CC fine, but I don't see how our(mine and Jaguar) retort should have been locked. So im opening based on that fact.

Jaguar, humility is not liberal and political, humility is a quality of a person.

Humility is even though I'm a detective, I don't believe it makes me better than those who work in uniform. Like other detectives do.

Do you believe in the bible? you know "in God we trust..."

You know the constitution based on those principles from the bible? (that's true right?)

quote:

Originally posted by Soback:

One person is not better than another? Everyone is equal?

Is there fast people and slow peole?

Is there dumb people and smart people?

Is there strong people and weak people?

Is there brave people and cowardly people?

Who is better, a thief or a doctor?

Who is better, a scientist or a retard?

Who is better, a brave policeman or the thug he protects you against?

Whos life is more valuable, the killers or his victims?

Whos life is more valuable, the doctors or a leech on wellfare?

Whos life is more valuable, the terrorists or his victims?

Whos life is more valuable, your wife's or criminal's who just stabed her?

Whos life is more valuable?

Everyone is equal? One person is not better than another? Really?

When are you going to stop corrupting our kids with false bs like that?

No, not everyone is equal, no not everyone is the same, no not everyone deserves the same respect, no not everyones life carries the same value, no it's not ok that one person hates the country he lives in, no it's not ok that one person hits another person. Wrong, is not just another way of looking at things, wrong is just that, WRONG (I am talking about everything here, political and otherwise, gay marriages, hating your own country, stealing from the people by way of wellfare, social services, corruption of government officials, killers, child molestors, thugs, and criminals being dumped back on the streets to pray upon the public instead of taking them out of this world and permanently solving the problem, etc....) Teach kids that there is right and that there is WRONG, teach the kids that wrong is NOT just another persons different opinion, and it's NOT OK.

Because that is not being taught, that's why America is in the shape it is today, socially, economically, politically.

Oh, and by the way, Constitution say you are equal IN PURSUIT of Happiness, and equal in your basic unallieneable RIGHTS. You DONT have the right to kill, to robb another person, to harm your neighbor. You do not have the right to leach off of your neighbors income, you don't have the right to force someone else to work for you (by taking welfare, social services, and free medical care, that's just another way of enslaving those who produce, and giving their production to those who DO NOT)

quote:

Originally posted by Soback:

Quotes from the Declaration of Independence:

"That all men are created equal; that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable rights; that among these are life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness"

They are CREATED equal, they have certain unalienable rights. When you violate the rights of another men, then you are not equal to other men, you lose your rights because you violated the rights of another. Created equal, doesn't mean that the killer is equal of the doctor, they were created (born) the same, once they took different paths, they stoped being equals.

"that, to secure these rights, governments are instituted among men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed;"

Do you think that I give my consent to them taking away my money for the use of such things as wellfare, to provide free health care to illegal imigrants, to provide free schooling for illegal immigrants, to provide social services to illegal imigrants, to provide cable tv, basketball courts, gyms, libraries to prison inmates?

"that whenever any form of government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the right of the people to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new government, laying its foundation on such principles, and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their safety and happiness."

Do you think that this government (I am not talking about our current president, I am talking about when our government shifted it's path in the 50's) is destroying the way of life that was meant by this Declaration of Independence. Now tell me, do you think that this passage says that it's legal to have a revolution? To instutute new government, to go back to the roots of the way America was supposed to be. Or do you think that this passage grants me the RIGHT AND OBLIGATION to stand up against what is WRONG instead of just HUMILIFYING myself to that which is WRONG? You say humility is not leberal? You WOULD be right in that, but humility has changed, today the word HUMILITY is being used by LIBERALS to ENTRAP HONEST PEOPLE in feelings of GUILT when they stand up against what's WRONG.

"Prudence, indeed, will dictate that governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes;"

Is infringement upon my basic right such as the ability of gevernment to dictate and sensor what games I can play, to take my land away for commercial development, do you think that the government has changed for transient causes? For the cause of backsratching deals, for the cause of wringing more money out of citizens?

Now this is important: "and accordingly all experience hath shown that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same object, evinces a design to reduce them under absolute despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such government, and to provide new guards for their future security."

How fed up do you think we are today? How fed up is Jag, how fed up is the average American citizen, how fed up am I? Fed up with all the illegal imigration, fed up with our rights slipping away, fed up with our kids being shoved full of bs by public schools, fed up with what we KNOW is wrong in our OWN COUNTRY, fed up with our money being taken away from us and given away. How fed up are we with all those things? Do you think we should humble ourselfs? DO YOU?

"The history of the present King of Great Britain is a history of repeated injuries and usurpations, all having in direct object the establishment of an absolute tyranny over these states. To prove this, let facts be submitted to a candid world. "

Do you think we live under tyrany of our own government today?

THE REST OF IT, HOW MUCH OF IT DO YOU SEE TODAY GOING ON?

"He has refused his assent to laws, the most wholesome and necessary for the public good.

He has forbidden his governors to pass laws of immediate and pressing importance, unless suspended in their operation till his assent should be obtained; and, when so suspended, he has utterly neglected to attend to them.

He has refused to pass other laws for the accommodation of large districts of people, unless those people would relinquish the right of representation in the legislature, a right inestimable to them, and formidable to tyrants only.

He has called together legislative bodies at places unusual uncomfortable, and distant from the depository of their public records, for the sole purpose of fatiguing them into compliance with his measures.

He has dissolved representative houses repeatedly, for opposing, with manly firmness, his invasions on the rights of the people.

He has refused for a long time, after such dissolutions, to cause others to be elected; whereby the legislative powers, incapable of annihilation, have returned to the people at large for their exercise; the state remaining, in the mean time, exposed to all the dangers of invasions from without and convulsions within.

He has endeavored to prevent the population of these states; for that purpose obstructing the laws for naturalization of foreigners; refusing to pass others to encourage their migration hither, and raising the conditions of new appropriations of lands.

He has obstructed the administration of justice, by refusing his assent to laws for establishing judiciary powers.

He has made judges dependent on his will alone, for the tenure of their offices, and the amount and payment of their salaries.

He has erected a multitude of new offices, and sent hither swarms of officers to harass our people and eat out their substance.

He has kept among us, in times of peace, standing armies, without the consent of our legislatures.

He has affected to render the military independent of, and superior to, the civil power.

He has combined with others to subject us to a jurisdiction foreign to our Constitution and unacknowledged by our laws, giving his assent to their acts of pretended legislation:

For quartering large bodies of armed troops among us;

For protecting them, by a mock trial, from punishment for any murders which they should commit on the inhabitants of these states;

For cutting off our trade with all parts of the world;

For imposing taxes on us without our consent;

For depriving us, in many cases, of the benefits of trial by jury;

For transporting us beyond seas, to be tried for pretended offenses;

For abolishing the free system of English laws in a neighboring province, establishing therein an arbitrary government, and enlarging its boundaries, so as to render it at once an example and fit instrument for introducing the same absolute rule into these colonies;

For taking away our charters, abolishing our most valuable laws, and altering fundamentally the forms of our governments;

For suspending our own legislatures, and declaring themselves invested with power to legislate for us in all cases whatsoever.

He has abdicated government here, by declaring us out of his protection and waging war against us.

He has plundered our seas, ravaged our coasts, burned our towns, and destroyed the lives of our people.

He is at this time transporting large armies of foreign mercenaries to complete the works of death, desolation, and tyranny already begun with circumstances of cruelty and perfidy scarcely paralleled in the most barbarous ages, and totally unworthy the head of a civilized nation.

He has constrained our fellow-citizens, taken captive on the high seas, to bear arms against their country, to become the executioners of their friends and brethren, or to fall themselves by their hands.

He has excited domestic insurrection among us, and has endeavored to bring on the inhabitants of our frontiers the merciless Indian savages, whose known rule of warfare is an undistinguished destruction of all ages, sexes, and conditions.

In every stage of these oppressions we have petitioned for redress in the most humble terms; our repeated petitions have been answered only by repeated injury. A prince, whose character is thus marked by every act which may define a tyrant, is unfit to be the ruler of a free people.

Nor have we been wanting in our attentions to our British brethren. We have warned them, from time to time, of attempts by their legislature to extend an unwarrantable jurisdiction over us. We have reminded them of the circumstances of our emigration and settlement here. We have appealed to their native justice and magnanimity; and we have conjured them, by the ties of our common kindred, to disavow these usurpations which would inevitably interrupt our connections and correspondence. They too, have been deaf to the voice of justice and of consanguinity. We must, therefore, acquiesce in the necessity which denounces our separation, and hold them as we hold the rest of mankind, enemies in war, in peace friends.

We, therefore, the representatives of the United States of America, in General Congress assembled, appealing to the Supreme Judge of the world for the rectitude of our intentions, do, in the name and by the authority of the good people of these colonies solemnly publish and declare, That these United Colonies are, and of right ought to be, FREE AND INDEPENDENT STATES; that they are absolved from all allegiance to the British crown and that all political connection between them and the state of Great Britain is, and ought to be, totally dissolved; and that, as free and independent states, they have full power to levy war, conclude peace, contract alliances, establish commerce, and do all other acts and things which independent states may of right do. And for the support of this declaration, with a firm reliance on the protection of Divine Providence, we mutually pledge to each other our lives, our fortunes, and our sacred honor.

[signed by] JOHN HANCOCK [President] "

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What can I add to what Soback said?

in a word, "nothing".

Just think, a man that was not born in this country, understands the constitution and the founding fathers more then most naturally born citizens.

That is just sad....

Tells me that I wish that our citizens cared as much about thier freedoms, as he does, then again, he knows what it is like to NOT have the freedoms that we enjoy, and yet also knows the freedoms that we once had, and should have again.

Here's to you Soback!!

It's always good to have an actual citizen around, because when you have to work for something, and not have it GIVEN to you, you appreciate it all the more. I can tell that you appreciate it.

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my reference was to Jaguar, not to thugs and non thugs. I was speaking to the point that because he made it as a soldier he felt better than the next man who didn't.

Could very well be that the next man went on to become of the nations leading suppliers in advanced technology to military personnel, or develop such technology because he found his calling as a scientist.

Anyway the point is you may have bested them at that point in their life, but it doesn't mean you are better. And there's no criminal comparisons here, just two men trying to recruit into an army.

If your constition says when a person commits or violates the rights of another, his rights are basically forfeit, then why the trials and the lawyers? Or is there another part that speaks of this?

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quote:

Originally posted by Cruis.In:

my reference was to Jaguar, not to thugs and non thugs. I was speaking to the point that because he made it as a soldier he felt better than the next man who didn't.

Could very well be that the next man went on to become of the nations leading suppliers in advanced technology to military personnel, or develop such technology because he found his calling as a scientist.

Anyway the point is you may have bested them at that point in their life, but it doesn't mean you are better. And there's no criminal comparisons here, just two men trying to recruit into an army.

If your constition says when a person commits or violates the rights of another, his rights are basically forfeit, then why the trials and the lawyers? Or is there another part that speaks of this?

I never said I was better, you did that...

I'm just not humble, I don't believe in it....

I respect others that have other gifts then I do, but I am NOT humble.

I hold in high esteem those that have proven more intelligent then I am, or have earned more money, or have created something that I would be unable to, but I do not humble myself before them.

I respect them, but that does not mean that I have to worship and be humble to them.

That is just stupid, your idea of humble is ridiculous, and I for one refuse to do it.

Equal, but different... It is the way life is, but I will not humble myself to someone else, that is just insane...

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you are looking at humble as some sort of subjugation. Anyway and worhsip. Humility is not how you feel about others. YOUR idea of humble is ridiculous go and look it up in the dictionary.

Because firstly if you are saying "humbling yourself to someone" then you've got it wrong.

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