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France Unrest

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I don't know if you should be afraid, but I do know that if someone is coming along with you into that storm thinking that you will protect them, THEY should be terrified.

And another thing, heading out into a storm without your gear is your thing. Liberals however, are not only throwing their gear away, they want to force others to head into that storm empty handed too.

As far as lotto goes, if you don't play, you don't win. It's as simple as that. And don't try to missenterpet that as me saying you should gamble all your money away.

And, about feelings of regret. Whenever I was in a fight that another person initiated, I've never felt regret about beating their sences back into them. What you fail to understand, is it's your life, your well being, and those who you care about, who depend on you to protect them who are infinetly more important than that which will hurt you or them. Notice that I say THAT. Those who initiate violence are to be treated as objects, not human, not animal. They are nothing more than a threat that needs to be neutralized.

Because of people like you, France right now is burning. Because of people feeling sorry for those "youths", a woman was sprayed with gasoline and lit on fire. Can you imagine what it feels like burning alive? If that woman had friends who could prevent that by shooting the assailants to death, you would feel bad for them?

This is just sick.

It's like feeling bad for a child molestor. Or feeling bad for a murderer that took anothers life, getting executed.

Which one needs mental services? People with your mentality, or those of Kalshions?

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There is a very big differance between killing someone and beating them up. And I was talking from a mental health stand-point which any psychologists or psychiatrist would tell you. Also I did not say such feelings would be logical, just there. Nor did I say they would be particularly consumming, it might just be something that passes momentarily.

If someone expected me to be able to provide more than token help, they would be terriably illusioned (but I did say that already) and I would tell them that.

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So do you feel momentarily passing sadness when a terrorist is shot dead before he had a chance to blow himself up at the checkpoint?

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quote:

Originally posted by nomad:

I consult french press daily, and guess what ? There's not any criticism of conceptual politics be of the right or the left. What is in question is the integration model, who seems to be deficient independently of whoever rules.

But I don't know, maybe that Soback, who doesen't seem to be able to read other things that pieces of news that someone has assessed as worth enough to be translated in english, knows better...

Tonight, they arrested a 10 years old child with a petrol bomb. I guess he knew a lot about economy and politics, like the majority of the 253 youth arrested yesterday.


Hey Nomad. Did your press daily tell you about this? http://www.dailypundit.com/newarchives/005705.php

Or maybe it wasn't translated in French? Or Spanish? Or whatever other language you read.

--Originally posted by Nomad:

[*]"The point is that we are assisting to a domino-effect, where as the number of rioters increases, the civil forces are more and more stretched. It takes only 1 individual to set fire to a car. It takes more than a police officer at the right location and at the right time to catch him.

Seeing Soback pretending that there's no way a child can build a petrol bomb without his parents teaching him, I guess our friend doesen't have a TV set with all these exquisite cultural films streaming all day long..."

So Nomad, did that 10 year old build his own bomb? Did any of them build their own bombs? Was it a domino effect, or were they prepared for the riots, and if they were prepared, then by whom? I know, maybe 10 year olds got together, and planned all this, right? After all, 3 ten year olds is like 1 thirty year old. LOL, Who's blind now Nomad?

"Police last night found a petrol bomb factory in a southern suburb of Paris, on France's tenth and worst consecutive night of violence.

1,300 vehicles were torched on France's worst night of violence so far

Six youths, all aged under 18, were arrested in a raid on a building in Evry, south of Paris, where more than 100 bottles, gallons of fuel and hoods for hiding rioters' faces were found.

Jean-Marie Huet, the Justice Ministry's director of criminal affairs and pardons, said the Police found: "150 bottles prepared for use as Molotov cocktails, of which 50 were ready to be used," and "tens of litres of gasoline and hoods".

Saturday night's rioting was the most destructive so far as 1,300 vehicles were set alight and 349 people arrested, despite an enhanced police presence."

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quote:

Originally posted by Soback:

So do you feel momentarily passing sadness when a terrorist is shot dead before he had a chance to blow himself up at the checkpoint?

Nothing to do with what I was saying. There is quite a differance between being involved in or seeing a death first hand then there is hearing about it in a ten second blurb on the news.

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You didn't answer the question.

I'll ask it AGAIN.

Since a terrorist is considered human (by you anyhow). Would you feel a moment of sadness seeing him gunned down before being able to blow himself up?

Or how about something a little easier.

If a criminal is holding a person hostage, with a gun to his head, and a sniper shoots that murderer. Would you feel a moment of sadness?

Or how about this one.

A criminal breaks into a home. And before he can cause any harm to it's inhabitants, the home owner kills the criminal. Would you feel sadness then?

Or how about this one.

A criminal breaks into YOUR home. Hits your father in the head a couple of times, knocks him out. Rapes your mother, maybe stabs your sister or brother. Then police come, and shoot him right in front of your eyes. You going to feel sad about that?

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My two sense:

Most rational people hope that they would never be put in a position of having to kill someone to survive, but, by the same token, most rational people would not hesitate to kill someone if they felt their lives or the lives of their loved ones threatened. The drive for survival is the most fundamental instinct of the human condition, or so I have read.

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quote:

And please, stop to speak like an immature youth, being over 40 years old, it's normally time to get a grip on reality. Stop to make a fool from yourself with that BS Rambo attitude, because you aren't either invincible, nor blessed by universal and immediate extrasense.

I don't think that's fair Nomad. Someone could just as easily tag you as being a childish wimp for your stance on guns. It is not a matter of being "Rambo" or invincible. It is a matter of being confident in your own ability and RIGHT to protect yourself, not burden others with your protection.

quote:

More seriously, I sincerely hope that you or any of your family members will never get shoot by someone turning nuts, because on top of the suffering, you may end the rest of your life regretting to have supported a dynamic allowing such people to access firearms.

That is absolutely insane. Would YOU feel better if some crazed lunatic hurt your family because you were unable to stop him because you had no way of defending yourself?

You need to understand - the "crazies" you refer to would have guns whether or not you kept them out of the hands of law-abiding citizens. That's why they're called CRIMINALS. Criminalize gun ownership, and only criminals will have guns.

quote:

The day someone assaults your family and you aren't present, there's nothing you will ever be able to do except pick up what's left. And even if you are there, it only takes to get you by surprise for you to be the first one going down.

That's why you train your wife and older children in the safe operation of firearms. And what's your point about being surprised? You at least I had a fighting chance. You can't control everything, but you can do a little to swing the odds in your favor.

The only valid part of your argument concerning firearms in my view is the training courses. In Tennessee, you are required to take an 8-hour training course prior to being issued a concealed carry permit. I believe that is the right thing to do.

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Thanks for the wishing for luck!

But you are missing the point - First of all, Our Constitution says the right to own guns will "not be infringed". Second of all, as I already stated, crazed people are going to own guns anyway. It is up to me to decide how to counter them. I have decided to do so with my S&W .40.

With all due respect, your suggestion for "a battery of tests every 2 to 3 years" is insane. Impossible to implement and maintain. That is upwards of 200 million psyche tests!

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What's that Nomad? You miraculously missed my posts? Kinda like when you started BS'ing that France wasn't socialist, and then when I posted links, quotes, and facts to back it up that France was socialist, you dissapeared. And then reapeared, like you haven't seen them, and forgetting the whole thing. When you make statements, back them up, or admit you were wrong. It's that easy.

Second. What, you missed the post about the 10 year old? Still think he made that bomb himself? Still think that all it is is un-organized, poor youth? I guess you missed the post about the petrol bomb factory too?

ROFL

As far as firearms go. When your family was attacked, and you were handed a gun that you could barely lift, incompetent, and un-able to protect your family. How did that feel? Felt good? Thanks to the strong, brave people with guns, you and your family survived. Without them... well, you know what would happen. So next time you are walking in public, and a thug stops you with a knife to your wifes stomach, maybe even goes on stabbing spree at her, remember the simple truth. Nobody around you has a gun to stop him. So have fun watching your wife bleed, all the while keep repeating to yourself "I am safe from gun toting Rambos"

As far as mental tests go, looks like your attitude is that of a suicidial mazohist, who instead of making it easy for everyone and taking his own life, continues going through life believing that being able to defend one self is a crime of nature, what's even worse, is that you think that government should FORCE other NORMAL people to addapt your call police, run, hide, beg for your life approach, and infringe on their right to protect themselfs. You are not Jesus, so really, instead of calling for gun owners to go through mental tests, people who believe the best way of defense is no defense at all should be the ones on a 3 year program.

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This time I'll try to put it into words that make sence.

Seeing someone die is consirded a traumatic experiance (that should help anwser your questions), which can cause a host of emotions depending on what happened.

Killing someone is consirded a traumatic experiance. The responce typical to this is shock immediately and remorse afterwards. Doing this to protect your life or anothers is not consirded immoral (by me anyways, and obviously you), if sometimes not preferred.

This can cause such aliments as Post Traumatic Stress Disorder(PTSD).

The ONLY people who do not suffer from PTSD given sufficient stimuli(differs with each person and what happened) are those who already suffer from certain other mental illness, such as sociapathy or psycopathy. Please note sociapathy and psycopathy vary in strength and dosn't always result in those who go on murder sprees or ,for that matter, anything at all to hurt other people.

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...and "experience". And "sense". And "ailments". And "response". And "sociopathy". And "doesn't".

But your point is correct for the vast amount of people. Some, however, exhibit a very high resistance to such reactions, and interestingly enough, a large percentage of these people end up in the military. I'll leave the "why" for another debate.

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quote:

Originally posted by Prez:

...and "experience". And "sense". And "ailments". And "response". And "sociopathy". And "doesn't".

Ahh, now prez, that wasn't very nice...LOL

But, neither is This.

LOL

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I feel that France is effectively under attack. "You guys won't 'give' us housing that is better than we are." It feels similar to that. If the people rioting there worked hard enough they could move to a place that they would be more happy. There has to be a bit of agreement between both factions, I understand, but the extremes these people are going to are rediculous.

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That traumatic experience you speak of Aperson, comes NOT from killing but from realizing how close YOU YOURSELF just came to death, and how it could be YOU lying there in a puddle of blood.

For those in combat, it comes from seeing your life going through your mind, dozens of times a day. It comes from people shooting at you. Seeing others dying, realizing that it could be you.

In home assault situation. It comes NOT from killing a criminal, but realizing what that criminal could have done to YOU if you failed to protect yourself. And understanding how fragile your life is. Understanding and feeling horrified at what could have happened to your wife, kids.

That's the difference between feeling sad for anothers death, and having the post traumatic stress dissorder.

"Post-traumatic stress disorder is defined in terms of the trauma itself and the person's response to the trauma. Trauma occurs when a person has experienced, witnessed, or been confronted with a terrible event that is an actual occurrence. Alternatively, the person may have been threatened with a terrible event, perhaps injury (physical or psychological) or death to themselves or others. Then, the person's response to the event or to the threat involves intense fear, helplessness, and/or horror.

***WHICH WOULD BE LESSENED OR NOT EVEN ENCOUNTERED IF THE PERSON EASILY GOT CONTROL OF THE SITUATION*, and what are those words again? HELPLESSNESS? FEAR, HORROR? Yeah, not having a gun to protect yourself while there's a criminal ramaging around your house, I wuold call the feelings you would encounter helplessness, fear, or horror. ***

It is important to note, however, that having strong reactions to trauma is normal. What's more, there is a range (spectrum) of expected reactions depending on a person's prior exposure to trauma and even on hereditary (genetic) factors

***WHATS THAT? HEREDITARY FACTORS? MAYBE THAT'S WHAT WOULD EXPLAIN NOMADS REACTION, YOUR REACTION, OR SOMEONES LIKE KALSHIONS, JAGS, OR MY REACTION WOULD BE*** ."

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"Not every traumatized person gets full-blown PTSD, or experiences PTSD at all. PTSD is diagnosed only if the symptoms last more than a month. In those who do develop PTSD, symptoms usually begin within 3 months of the trauma, and the course of the illness varies. Some people recover within 6 months, others have symptoms that last much longer."

"PTSD affects about 5.2 million adult Americans.1 Women are more likely than men to develop PTSD.7 It can occur at any age, including childhood,8 and there is some evidence that susceptibility to PTSD may run in families.9 "

http://www.nimh.nih.gov/publicat/anxiety.cfm#anx4

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quote:

Originally posted by Prez:

...and "experience". And "sense". And "ailments". And "response". And "sociopathy". And "doesn't".


quote:

Originally posted by Prez:

But your point is correct for the vast amount of people. Some, however, exhibit a very high resistance to such reactions, and interestingly enough, a large percentage of these people end up in the military. I'll leave the "why" for another debate.

Hence why I put in the "differs with each person" part.

And yes I realised you were kidding.

Jaguar:

That's kind of scary. But hey, discussing beer and hockey dosn't require good reading or numeracy skills.

Puls its not taht I cna't raed good, its jsut taht I cna't garmemr or spiel wroth a dman.

(Ten bucks says you can read that)

Soback:

You or others, but fair enough.

And depression is a sympton of PSTD...

Err, I said that the tolerance level differs with each person.

Link? (For the first quotes, unless they were your own)

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quote:

Originally posted by Prez:

Am I the only one who feels that France's softball response to this will be seen as encouragement of future behavior of this nature?

If you go back to that link you provided in your Jordan terror attack thread Fox News and click on the VIDEO tab, you'll see that it's happening (to a small degree) now in germany. Title: Copy cat violence? German police beef up security.

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quote:

Originally posted by Prez:

Am I the only one who feels that France's softball response to this will be seen as encouragement of future behavior of this nature?

I have not said it once, I have said it a thousand times.

Liberalism and socialism is the death of any country that tries it.

Equal outcome, ISN'T.

Europe is about to erupt into a warzone, AGAIN, and it is their own fault.

Diversity this, diversity that, housing rights, health care rights, food rights, these rights those rights, etc, etc ad nauseum.

History repeats itself, AGAIN.

The Muslims want a muslim state, and will do anything to get it, Europe opens their doors to immigration of all sorts, the immigrants do not integrate into their new society, they bring their OLD society with them, and then are PAYED to do it, then when it is no longer tolerable, they explode.

Europe is about to erupt, and it will be Muslim immigrants, against EVERYONE else.

It's happening, and the process will speed up, as the news spreads.

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Speaking as one of the so called invisible liberals on this board, I havent responded to any of these threads because I have heard ALL of it before. I think it is nice for you guys to spin this stuff so you can avoid discussing Karl Rove Scooter Libby and the like. It beats discussing Bush's spiraling approval ratings.

You know a lot of you guys call yourselves conservatives, but in truth you are all Fundementalists. You see the world in absolutes, are unable to comprimise, renounce any dissent as unpatriotic,and do your best to destroy a system that promotes liberty by trying to bring about the demise of any opposition party. You guys have a lot in common with the Islamic fundementalist you are always demonizing, you only differ in dogma and tactics. That is really ironic and funny to me.

The riots are simply what riots have always been under many different forms of government; the rage of the poor, uneducated and unrepresented. This is no more a repudiation of Socialism than the riots in in LA were to democracy. Rage reaches a critical mass and the mob mentality took over.

In closing remember a wise man once said " A fanatic is a person who won't change his mind and can't change the subject"

If the shoe fits......

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