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Supreme Cmdr

9/11 - Govt. Coverup?

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I'm not and never have been a conspiracy theorist. But watching the United 93 movie this past weekend, coupled with following some editorial links, I came across this documentary which, I must say, has completely shattered my view of what happened on 09/11/01.

Anyone else getting this, or is it just me?

Was 9/11 really orchestrated by an American govt. in a bid to go to war with Iraq in order to secure oil interests? I dunno, but considering the price of gas these days, I'd say if this is in fact the truth, their plan has kinda backfired.

The thought that so many lives could be considered collateral damage, is not so farfetched when you consider the military doctrine of ROE. Even the sanctioned military shoot down of a civilian jetliner, considers the crew and passengers collateral damage.

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Its not humor, so I deleted that thread.

While we're at it; since this is my site and I pay the damn bills, I can post what I want, where I want, anytime I want. Please make a note of it.

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Hmmmm

I'm not much for conspiracy's mainly because there's hardly any evidence to back them up

Even after watching that video though I still have my belief's that it's just a group of people trying to cause trouble

But we don't know, there still isn't any evidence that says it's not a conspiracy. The fact is those planes hit the tower and the reaction of the government and every other asset certainly wasn't rehearsed.

Any other way: there's no evidence to back up any claim

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quote:

...the reaction of the government and every other asset certainly wasn't rehearsed.

If the upper echelons of government decided to stage an attack on their own country that required everyone else to think that someone else did it, they would only tell who they needed to tell in order to keep the reactions as authentic as possible.

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To what end though?

The WTC is the main financial market of the United States, we came real close to an economical shut down

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Guest

quote:

Originally posted by Supreme Cmdr:

Its not humor, so I deleted that thread.

While we're at it; since this is my site and I pay the damn bills, I can post what I want, where I want, anytime I want. Please make a note of it.

ROFLMAO!!!

AMEN!!!

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quote:

Originally posted by Supreme Cmdr:

You're kidding me, right?

Nope

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Although I, too, am fairly resistent to conspiracy theories, some of the conjectures made in that video are nonetheless convincing.

However, the fact that I find to be most troubling is this: 4 and a half years we still haven't "found" Osama. I think we know exactly where he is, or he's working for us. We have technology that can see people through walls, hear conversations a mile away, and satellites that can read your newspaper from space(and god knows what else sitting in the basement of some NSA lab somewhere), and most importantly, we have the best and brightest people on the face of the earth with that technology in their hands, and they're trying to tell us that they can't find 1 guy riding around in the desert? That would be almost, ALMOST believable if it weren't for the fact that he also has enough time to leisurely sit around and make movies and deliver them to local TV stations. And in these videos, he has nigh a scratch on his face or speck of dust on his perfectly white turban. It's a pretty impressive feat for a man that's "on the run" for almost five years from the best intelligence on earth to carry around a portable movie studio, makeup salon, and have his entire wardrobe regularly dry-cleaned. There's no ****ing way. I call bullshit.

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Hmmm... I do agree that we should've found Osama by now

There's still the chance that we killed him in our bombings of that one mountain range (forgot the name)

There's also the chance he was killed by the Iraq Army (the one we trained) and they just haven't said anything

The problem is: We don't know

For all we know he could very well BE working with our government

For all we know he could very well BE alive and well

We just don't know, and probably never will know.

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Until I saw that video (I even ordered the DVD so that I could watch again in my living room), I didn't have ANY questions about the events of 9/11.

I watched that video a second time and meticulously made notes about questions I had in my mind. These are of special interest to me :

  1. WHERE is United Flight 93? There is no way on Earth that plane could have vaporized after hitting the ground at speeds in excess of 500 mph. I know enough about flying and physics, to know that much.
  2. What was a C-130 doing in the area? Did they actually dismantle Flight 93 and dropped parts of it from the air?
  3. The trajectory of the plane that hit the pentagon is as suspicious as hell.
  4. The WTC towers were definitely destroyed in part by a controlled demolition. Only a complete idiot would indicate otherwise. I didn't need the video to tell me that. In fact, most everyone who saw it on TV, immediately drew the same conclusion.
  5. ...that gold bullion? Well, shiver me timbers, they were already moving it!!!

I have so many - many - questions that I'm just sitting here waiting for the day when a shocker is going to hit us in the news. This has all the markings of a Kennedy style cover up.

Yes, there are conspiracy kooks out there; but lets face it, even the most rational person asking the right - and disturbing questions - can be labeled as on on any given day.

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Didn't we cover all of this before?

I remember making a post with a link to reopen911.org

And certain members of this board refuted it as hogwash. Called me a conspiracy nut with a tinfoil beany and worse, a liberal.

So, riddle me this....

If you wanted to pull off a trillion dollar gold heist and you had the resources of the U S government at your disposal, not to mention adding in a trillion dollar oil hiest in Iraq, a'la US military, would you do it?

The Bush family has been at the epicenter of criminal activity since before and during WW II.

And I think that they are only doing this shit for bragging rights at their little secret club at Yale.

Again I say it's way past time to bring those fothermuckers down before they finish what they started.

I bet, if I could get a few of those cronies alone with me and my .303, I could get a confession out of them.

Flame away

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Hello guys. IÔÇÖd like to join in. IÔÇÖm not going to go off. I promise.

This sort of information (I dont think this exact site that SC has linked, but ones very similar) began cropping up on the net literally days after the terrorist attacks. In fact a claim identical to the ones made about the two flights that hit the towers were made about the flight that struck the pentagon i.e. it wasnt a flight at all, but a missile, and the actual flight purported to have hit the Pentagon was missing and unaccounted for, etc. etc. The arguments and supposed photo evidence were all very compelling, rational, and reasonable sounding  and completely false. It so happens that several videos of what was unmistakably a plane hitting the building were found a later posted, completely debunking the story. This latest iteration cleverly supplants the missile hoax with an onboard "pod" of some kind, removing the possibility of video eveidence debunking this hoax. Why do people do stuff like this? Mostly its because they consider themselves clever when they can dupe a large group of people into believing something so hard to believe. It is what they consider fun.

As far as I can tell, these claims of conspiracies and sinister dealings afoot are no different. The still photos are indeed a clever touch, but almost certainly fake. Well-made and industrious fakes to be sure, but still fakes. It is simply too easy to doctor photos and post them on the net. Anyone remember the photos that showed Al Gore supposedly pledging allegiance with the wrong hand? Fake. How about the website that claimed to have interviews with the fire team aboard the Navy cruiser that shot down TWA Flight 800 over Laguardia? With photo evidence! Fake. There are simply dozens of excellently made and brilliantly passed-off hoaxes flying around the Internet.

There will always be the people who insist this case is different ÔÇô the evidence is too compelling for it to be a hoax. To them I say, fine. Believe what you like. But in the case of huge world events like the moon landing (which I heard was faked) Flight 800 (which IÔÇÖve heard was a military mishap covered up the govÔÇÖt) and the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor (which IÔÇÖm told was deliberately allowed to happen so that the U.S. could be drawn into a war it otherwise would not have enter due to the isolationist attitude of Americans at the time) you have to consider the area where all of the best conspiracy theories fall apart.

Put simply, that would be the enormous number of people who would have to be involved to pull off such a grand scheme, AND keep it under wraps afterward. Human nature dictates that a person with a secret will generally keep quiet for all of about 37 seconds, and less when the event is as high profile as these. Consider for a moment the number of people walking around who would know the truth in any of the events listed above. Now consider the likelihood of every one of them taking such a dark secret to their grave without ever a peep as to the REAL truth. Once one person or group of people came out, there would be an avalanche of people just dying to get such horrible secrets off their chests. It is inevitable.

Again, all of this is very interesting ÔÇô and complete fiction.

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Prez: The hoax explanation would explain the two planes that were seen flying when no planes were supposed to be and that there was supposedly a missile being shot at the Twin Towers. It doesnÔÇÖt explain the way one (or was it both) of the twin towers fell, nor the lack of proper debris around the Pentagon.

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Prez: Although you have point that you can find almost anything from internet, both false and fiction, yet there can be also true information. It is easy to say that 'its internet' don't take it seriously.

Illusions.

Yes, in internet you can get fooled easily, but when you see it from 'serious' media, you won't doubt right?

However Prez, I agree with you partially. Official story could be true, but it is alarming that so many people have doubts about it.

quote:

Originally posted by Wolfrez:

Again I say it's way past time to bring those fothermuckers down before they finish what they started.

I bet, if I could get a few of those cronies alone with me and my .303, I could get a confession out of them.


Carefully dude, or you might get accussed of planning act of terror

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quote:


Originally posted by Prez:

The still photos are indeed a clever touch, but almost certainly fake. Well-made and industrious fakes to be sure, but still fakes. It is simply too easy to doctor photos and post them on the net.


Rubbish. First of all, the people over at the two 9/11 sites posted in this thread, are highly credible public figures. Not some net kooks.

Also, I LOOKED at the CNN and other network footage from which those videos and stills were obtained. They are IDENTICAL and 100% UNDOCTORED. I am a graphics person and can easily spot a fake. The link I posted above about the pods under the aircraft, are CLEARLY there in the CNN footage.

For the love of God, before you start crying about fakes, at the very least, DO the research.

As a scientist, I don't jump on anyone's bandwagon, but rather rely on hard evidence and facts. There are far too many questions about the 9/11 incidents than there are answers.

Even if you discount the WTC evidence, it is 100% clear that NO aircraft - at least not a 7 series Boeing - hit the Pentagon nor crash in a Penn state field.

This is a govt. coverup of epic proportions; and one day, we'll be posting in this very thread once the investigations and indictments start flying. If its one thing I've learned about our country; it is that a secret of this magnitude eventually falls apart. To pull something off like this would take a ton of military (high and low) level personnel and quite possibly foreign (e.g. Mosad) govt. assistance. I can't even begin to imagine the ramifications of this, if it were in fact true that foreign govt. were involved in this and operating on US soil.

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The problem with this entire discussion is that no one can freely debate topic because even the suggestion that its a conspiracy means you're insulting national heroes and are instantly and forever an unpatriotic blaspheming heretic.

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quote:


Originally posted by DeepFreeze:

The problem with this entire discussion is that no one can freely debate topic because even the suggestion that its a conspiracy means you're insulting national heroes and are instantly and forever an unpatriotic blaspheming heretic.


Exactly.

However, as far as United 93 is concerned, if in fact it never existed, what happened to the passengers who died on that flight? Did it actually exist and was shot down?

For one thing, there is CLEAR evidence that only about five people from that particular flight, are on the victims compensation list.

So, if, for e.g. Beamer did in fact die on that flight, uhm, how is that remotely possible? Obviously some people died. I mean, they can't exactly whisk them off away into a sort of witness protection program. That would represent a serious security risk for the conspiracy.

Like I said, there is definitely something amiss and eventually, all will be revealed.

[ 05-01-2006, 09:20 AM: Message edited by: Supreme Cmdr ]

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quote:

For the love of God, before you start crying about fakes, at the very least, DO the research.

Well, I read the information in it's entirety on the websites you linked to. I was impressed with the extent these people are going to to pull this one off. What other research am I "obligated" to do when I know this is all a bunch of melarchy? Why should I expend the effort on something so silly?

quote:

Even if you discount the WTC evidence, it is 100% clear that NO aircraft - at least not a 7 series Boeing - hit the Pentagon nor crash in a Penn state field.

Is it '100% clear'? Is anyone here to be considered an authority on what happens to a plane when it hits a building - as if this is something that happens all the time? I respect that you are a scientist, but bear in mind I am not a complete scientific 'ignoramoose'. I really don't have a problem with being told planes crashed where I was told they crashed. It's not like I know what to expect in these cases - not everything happens in real life like it happens in the movies...

quote:

Also, I LOOKED at the CNN and other network footage from which those videos and stills were obtained. They are IDENTICAL and 100% UNDOCTORED. I am a graphics person and can easily spot a fake. The link I posted above about the pods under the aircraft, are CLEARLY there in the CNN footage.


Okay - let's consider that for a moment. CNN is not one to shy away from dredging up bad things to report on the Bush administration. Obviously if it's "their" footage, the smart people that work at CNN would have seen your infamous alien 'pod' - and investigated. The very thought of being able to uncover a vast sinister plot on the part of this gov't would make them orgasmic - so why Then, have we heard NOTHING from them? Are they in on it too? Is MSNBC? FOX? ABCnews?

Pretty soon, the only ones NOT in on this vile plan will be me and you.

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