Fleet Discussions

[Supreme Cmdr]

Continuing from this thread in which Epsilon 5 said

quote:

---

Galcom captured the trader station in polaris-2, just the other of side of Sirius.

---

And I said...

uhm, who told you that? They bought it.

Frankly, I don't have a frigging clue why Gudihl even wasted my time explaining it to him (re: Valari), yet, I don't see any word of it posted in any of the fleet forums. And people wonder why I just ignore such emails.

But just wait, the first thing I'm going to do when the Beta multiplayer servers go online, is fire EACH and EVERY one of the useless fleet leaders - NO EXCEPTIONS - and hire green newbies in their place. You heard it here first. I just wasn't going to say anything - I was just going to do it.

And followed up with:

You're right. Its a stupid question. If you consider yourself to be a useless fleet leader, then you're one of the ones I'm speaking of.

You guys just get it, do you? I read EACH and EVERY forum here. I see recruits, wing leaders etc all posting trying to find where their leaders are etc. I see newbies getting even more organized in some quarters. Its as if some of the vets have some just become complacent.

I have said this once, and I'll say it again - when I take the Beta mp fleet only servers live, they will all be password protected. And NOBODY, and I do mean NOBODY is logging on there if you are not in a fleet.

In fact, there is a VERY good chance (as I've said before) that I'm not even going to allow users to setup servers, for the same reason I maintain security on this forum. If I do go that route, there will be free servers and fleet servers. I promised multiplayer, and that means I can enable LAN play but not allow anyone to play on my Internet servers - WHICH I GOING TO BE PAYING THE BANDWIDTH FOR -.

So, don't say you weren't warned. I've said this going back almost a year (do a search for 'multiplayer' and you'll see) and the game has Gone Gold and work on multiplayer resumes in full swing in about two weeks, once I get all the servers up and running.

[Supreme Cmdr]

Here is the excerpt from my email correspondence with Gudihl of 9-27-01 in which he was inquiring about Velari being changed and Epsilon Wing requesting to move in.

Well, Polaris is declared mixed, neutral, and in BC3K, Velari used to

be mul/tra. Now, in BC:M, you have set it to ter/mil.

That is correct

Now they think, because of this, Velari is GALCOM, and want to move

in. I denied that request until further notice.

I figured sooner or later someone would want to move in

What happened to Velari? Why is it ter/mil now? Just a typo, or some

outpost of GALCOM? Or something completely different? I am confused.

If you recall from your BC3K history, that region is heavily contested

and the Vesperons and Empirians are still fighting over it.

Jump 10 yrs into the future, and the war caused the trading factions

to go bankrupt - the VES/EMP war didn't help either. So, trading there suffered.

As a result, the traders who owned it, sold it to the Terrans - who

then turned it into a military outpost. The intent? Neither the Vesperons

nor the Empirians can own it - as such, neither one has their goals for

that region, satisfied.

By making it a military outpost, the Terrans (who are still stuck in the middle

of the Vesperon/Empirian conflict) can better maintain the peace in that

region and ensure that those VES bastards don't finally find a way to link

Polaris-2 to Frellis - thereby destabilizing the region and giving the

Insurgents who have setup shop in Midae, a backdoor into Sol - ESPECIALLY -

since they already have a launch point in Sygan (a pain in ass for GALCOM).

Thats the new history, which I have yet to flesh out - but will do so sometime

soon before multiplayer is out. Pass it on.

Btw., I have attached the request, and my answer.

If you want Epsilon Wing to move in there, thats fine (RPG or not). They can

go ahead. Besides, thats how it will be in the multiplayer patch anyway. Might

as well have a wing/fleet move in.

HOWEVER, if they are going to roleplay this particular instance, they have to

stick with the history as indicated above. They can work the E Wing move into

that station, post-Terran takeover. No problem there.

My only concern is that, I don't particularly want a wing assigned to a

station, when in fact, usually, fleets (which consist of wings) are the

designated assignees to stations. See my point?

btw, fleets don't have to wait for GCO to RPG their stories in the game.

I already said that I would be setting up fleet specific servers which the

public won't have access to. I plan on doing just that. In fact, only

*active* members of registered fleets will have access to the Beta

servers (in addition to the official Beta testers of course) until the

mp patch is final and released to the public.

[ 09-30-2001: Message edited by: Supreme Cmdr ]

[Epsilon 5]

Well That's okay.

If prime stick his nose out of Sol that's a good thing. they are too many people in there, and prime should think about defending a larger area.

Just to let people know, Orion is taking the Alpha Centauri and Tau Ceti system as our defense grid (I am myself parked in permanent patrol in Eori)

[Supreme Cmdr]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Epsilon 5:

If prime stick his nose out of Sol that's a good thing. they are too many people in there, and prime should think about defending a larger area.

---

Exactly

quote:

---

Just to let people know, Orion is taking the Alpha Centauri and Tau Ceti system as our defense grid (I am myself parked in permanent patrol in Eori)

---

I think there will be plenty of time for that when mp Beta goes live. I'm going to open it to official testers and some fleet members before taking it final to the public.

The fact is that on fleet servers, there is no such thing as free-for-all. Members in a fleet will be expected to follow orders from fleet leaders (if online) and be able to continue on their orders if the FL is not online. Heck, people visit this forum a lot, and since the fleet exclusive servers will be persistent and have an ingame and external chat lobby, I don't see why the same frequency can't be adapted.

The games I am goin to script are not going to be primarily free-for-all deathmatches (though they will be available). The idea is to create involving story based scripts which people play their role in. And since the server is persistent, you die, you're outta there until the script terminates etc

All fleet related scripts will encompass space and planetary scenarios with varying goals, rewards and resolution phases.

e.g.

From simple...

Ter/Mil are tasked with taking out a Ter/Ins probe. Well, first you've gotta find it. And no doubt the Ter/Ins guys are protecting it.

To complex...

Ter/Ins decided they're going to try an capture GHQ. How they plan on getting to Sol, and go past Prime, is anyone's guess.

To the insane...

Ter/Mil decides to take out New America. heh

As I've said over and over and over - anyone who expects mp to be some run-of-the-mill garbage, is in for a shock. The game itself is not even close to being run-of-the-mill and I have no intentions of throwing together mp so that I can say it has it. If I wanted to do that, I would've done it.

[ 09-30-2001: Message edited by: Supreme Cmdr ]

[Cmdr Nova]

I'll copy my reply from the Orion Station Comms Forum to here:

quote:

---

Eh, no harm done. I still think SC needs a vacation. He looks like he's sooo stressed. Getting pissed fast shows it. (Ep5's little misinformation about Polaris-2 leads SC onto a rampage threatening the Fleet Leaders is the prime example.)

For the sake of the community and the flood of newbies, he needs to take a break, and we've also got to take a break from asking him tons of questions (or he can just let us vets answer them). I don't care if it delays the multiplayer patch for even a month. (Maybe some impatient bastards do, but, trust me: it's better for the community and us players that way, IMO. But that's just

my

opinion.)

---

---

About the fleet thing, I too think it's a good idea. It was odd to me at first, to see 58 or so commanders (at least in the Fleet DB) all stationed in Sol. Wow, that's almost half of Galcom. Crowded skies, no more!

---

Hmm. Scripting persistant multiplayer? Smart idea! (pun intended ) Wow, this is going to be soooo cool!

[ 09-30-2001: Message edited by: Cmdr Nova ]

[Supreme Cmdr]

Yeah, I saw that on the Orion forums Nova

btw, it wasn't E5's comment that set me off. It was the fact that I passed along that information, thinking that it would have been shared by now, but it wasn't. If it had, E5 (who is usually in the know), wouldn't have posted what he did (the different between capturing a station and buying it, ARE different).

So, I simply sequed into the issue about the fleets etc. It has NOTHING to do with E5's post. In fact, I started a brand NEW paragraph to talk about my fleet concerns. I simply addressed E5's misinformation in the one above.

Yes, it might seem trivial, but when people go off kilter, EVERYTHING, regardless of how trivial it may seem, is IMPORTANT.

...and of course, along the same lines of you thinking that I went on a rampage (hey wait!! shouldn't you be court-martialed for that? ), thats the same mindset that E5 and others used in thinking that I was refering to all fleet leaders as being useless - when in fact, I wasn't.

ps: The idea of scripting mp scenarios is not a new one. I've had the tech built-in since March 2000 (yes, I just checked my design docs and code CVS) because I didn't want mp to be much different from sp.

[ 09-30-2001: Message edited by: Supreme Cmdr ]

[Fendi]

Damn things just get better and better here. Multiplayer with scripts? People pay monthly for that kind of online game.

If any of you guys are thinking why I haven't registered in the fleet DB yet is because I have yet to figure out a name yet. It's been like this for the past month now. I know what I want to be but I don't know a cool name yet.

[Blades]

Boss, just to clarify once and for all, what are your specific concerns with the existing fleets, the commanders who run them, the policies/structures defined by those commanders etc.

I'm asking because I do not consider myself to be useless in any way, shape or form. Considering the reaction of several of my members, neither do they. What I want to know from you is what is expected of us.

Since we can only live up to the responsibilities you inform us of (Fleet websites, roster of active personnel, uniform signatures and a couple of others) we have had to rely on our own inititive and do things (Create and manage wings, assignments, delegation of responsibilities etc) without really knowing if any of what we do is approved of or appreciated.

For my own part, I have worked long and hard with some of the most active and dedicated commanders on this forum to make my small piece of the game into somthing I and my commrades can be proud of. With the help of people like Greg Miller, James Hamblin, Epsilon 5, Nova and a whole host of others I could spend the next ten minutes detailing we have achieved at least that much.

But end of the day all are efforts are for nought if they dont fall in line with your vision.

So I ask, what is your vision for the fleets? Are we all to be organised in the same uniform manner? Are we to adhere to a strict structure layed out by you? Tell us - please - if we have got it all horribly wrong.

I cant speak for all the fleet and wing leaders, but I strongly believe that each of us has in their own way contributed to the betterment of the franchise. We may not have done it in the right way, we may have got it totally wrong in fact, but at the very least most of us have tried to bring your vision to life in ways that no single person could do.

We're a community divided by RP rivalries but bonded by a love of this product. As a community, we need to know how we each fill our role within it. As fleet leaders, we need to know the rules and regulations that responsibility binds us to. We're not telepathic. We cant always see things in the same way you can. We dont all have the same oppurtunities to contribute as much as some of the more vocal members do.

If any of us have failed in one way or another, then we need to know what those failures were and what is really expected of us.

We want to do good - really - but we dont want to be punished for being ignorant of your ideals. That would be unfair, and those of us who have been here since pretty much day one, working in our own ways to gather the unwashed masses, help develope a close-knit community of passionate niche gamers, prepare ourselves for the mayhem of MP etc would be crushed by such an action.

Anyway, thats my point of view. This is Mr. Stacy Brain (aka Fleet Commander Karl Blades Savage) signing out ...

[Supreme Cmdr]

Blades, you, especially, were the VERY LAST person on my mind, when I wrote that.

For crying out loud, I wasn't accusing ANYONE of ANYTHING. I was just saying that I would fire any and all useless fleet leaders.

Thanks for making me regret posting that guys. Bastards, but am not retracting it because what I post was self-explanatory.

Obviously I won't be firing any, since the general consensus is that there aren't any. But hey, the warning did wake you guys up, didn't it?

Cripes, do you guys think that Justin works for free? Do you realize that I actually PAY for all this stuff? database, web site, bandwidth, etc etc etc? Would I be making those expenses if you ladies weren't pulling your weight? C'mon, SURELY you know me better than that?

....ok, I swear I'm going to have a nap now.

[ 09-30-2001: Message edited by: Supreme Cmdr ]

[Guest Remo Williams]

quote:

---

Frankly, I don't have a frigging clue why Gudihl even wasted my time explaining it to him (re: Valari), yet, I don't see any word of it posted in any of the fleet forums. And people wonder why I just ignore such emails.

---

Ummm, I asked Gudihl to approach you about the terran/military station in Velari to get approval for Prime to take possession of it. We were decussing it on the Prime Fleet board in the secure area that I created for the Fleet. I wasn't sure why the station had changed from terran/trader in BC3k to terran/military in BCM, but now I know why thanks for the explanation. I didnt mean for it to upset you with Thomas. I should have mailed you myself and took the heat for my ignorance, sorry.

Now that I know you approve of Prime being assigned to the station in Velari I will get Epsilon Wing moved. Along with one of the other wings stationed at GHQ if thats ok? It doesn't make much sense to me to have three of Primes wings stationed in the same secter around the Earth and the moon. Of course if you want all three wings there just let me know and you won't hear anything else about it.

[ 10-01-2001: Message edited by: Remo Williams ]

[Blades]

Hrum. Not too sure how I should respond to this. Ok, hows this ... ?

It wasnt so much of a complaint, more of a request to you for some more information on what you think us FC types should be doing to be considered non-useless. Dont get me wrong, if ANY fleet leaders is shirking their responsinilities in a manner defined by you, then I have no problems with them being replaced. All I want to know, for my own peace of mind as well as everybody elses is what we have to do to keep our positions.

I'd prefer to know so theres no argument if/when such a dismissal occures. If everyone knows what they are meant to do there is no excuse for slacking. As FC's, we have a responsibility to lead by example. If we know what those explicit responsibilities are, then we can do a better job of leading by that example. If we dont measure up to it, then we deserve to be fired.

Just an idea, but if somthing was drafted up for guys like us and we were given some time to get up to snuff, maybe everything would fall into place once again.

Anyway, I'd go get some sleep. We'll be here when you get back.

[Cmdr Nova]

We all know all the fleet leaders are gonna wake up (at least the ones who haven't been in the fray recently)! I don't think SC's firing anyone soon.

---

Hmm.... Looking back, I think we kinda blew this outa proportion at first (saying we'd go, blah blah, even without you clarifying first SC). We're all stressed out, aren't we (that's my excuse ). Perhaps lets all take a break.... At least until BCM is in our laps..... I mean, we aren't doing our daily VCF runs like we used to, and the game's practically here! (shrinks down to really small size) *twiddles fingers* ....It's just a week or two.....

---

How 'bout it? SC needs a vacation! Look at everything he's given us; the forums, the games, the actual ability to communicate with the man!

Well, weekend's over. Back to RL, along with school and work. Oh w00t for me... (sarcasm) I'll check in from time to time.

Nova, over and out.

[Charles Lindsey]

quote:

---

Thanks for making me regret posting that guys

---

Don't regret it. It reminds everyone of their responsibilities.

[Rico Jansen]

Remo!!! That's Velari!! The SC is allready on his toes. Now, quick, before he wakes up.

BTW, 20:00, that's early for his doing, ... erhm, he is asleep isn't he?

[ 09-30-2001: Message edited by: Rico Jansen ]

[Guest Remo Williams]

Ouch! Thanks Rico.

[Guest]

Why worry? BCM is otw in the mail, thats all that matters.

That and claiming the first SC kill. I think ill hunt him in an armed transport *G*

BTW Chief, whats your favourite drink? Dunno if to send over bottled water or scotch. I guess ill have to send you over some Aguardiente, so you can have a taste of something stronger than that wussy Tequila/Vodka...

[ 09-30-2001: Message edited by: Tac ]

[Guest]

Hey tac, where are we placing bets, I'll bet 10 to 1 on the SC!!

[Badgerius]

Wow. I look away for a day or two and look what's happened.

Now I shall add myself to the list of Prime commanders appologising to the SC: I was the commander who noticed an unocupied Ter/Mil station and inquired into moving one of Prime's wings there. Which brings me to my question:

quote:

---

My only concern is that, I don't particularly want a wing assigned to a

station, when in fact, usually, fleets (which consist of wings) are the

designated assignees to stations. See my point?

---

Well, mostly. Most fleets have a single station assigned to them. Orion has its station, as does Wraith, ISS, etc. (I'm not touching the Insurgency, since I'm not up to speed on their organization). Prime, however, during it's re-organization a year or so ago, took control of all of the Ter/Mil stations not assigned to other fleets. I wrote a fairly lengthy proposal on this board, which I cannot now find using search, so it must have been too long ago. After some debate, this proposal was approved, and Commander Guidihl was assigned to the Fleet Command position. This gave Prime three stations, instead of one. We had GalcomHQ, Genesis, and Starpath. So we split the five wings of Prime fleet among the three stations. When I found that Velari was a Ter/Mil station not affiliated with a fleet, I thought we might consider manning it. I also figured another fleet might make a claim on it, but none have, so far. So with 2 wings (Alpha, Beta) assigned to GalcomHQ, 1 wing (Gamma) to Genesis, and 2 (Delta, Epsilon) to Starpath, Epsilon seemed the best choice to move to Velari. (Epsilon, BTW, is among the more active of our wings, with 2 commanders ).

Now that the history lesson is over (and it was not intended for you SC, as I've no doubt you're aware of all this. But now everyone is), I'll come to the point: If we are supposed to be at 1 station/Fleet, is Prime then ordered to vacate Genesis, Starpath, and Velari? If so, we need 3 more fleets to fill these stations, and we need them quickly.

[Guest]

Hey now, don't sell Delta wing short either, we have 2 Active commanders as well, me and Thorgan. The others are all AWOL, I am waiting for replacements!!

And I think moving Epsilon wing would be fine, it'll leave Delta kind of lonely out there at Starpath, but I think we can handle it!!

[Badgerius]

I wasn't selling Delta short. I've only got 2 including myself. I think we all do.

[Cmdr Jeffery Eu]

quote:

---

SC posted on 09-30-2001

I see newbies getting even more organized in some quarters. Its as if some of the vets have some just become complacent.

---

I hoping that I not putting my old leather shoes in my mouth by assuming that you mean Spuzzum, Riga and my own meager efforts, so on behalf of them, thank you for noticing our efforts

quote:

---

SC posted on 09-30-2001

I have said this once, and I'll say it again - when I take the Beta mp fleet only servers live, they will all be password protected. And NOBODY, and I do mean NOBODY is logging on there if you are not in a fleet.

---

Uhmmm, aahh SC IÔÇÖm a little confused here, does your statement only mean established military fleets or all fleets, UCV and the organisation Riga and myself are pushing for and SpuzzumÔÇÖs Terran Core Police?

quote:

---

[sC posted on 09-30-2001

The fact is that on fleet servers, there is no such thing as free-for-all. Members in a fleet will be expected to follow orders from fleet leaders (if online) and be able to continue on their orders if the FL is not online. Heck, people visit this forum a lot, and since the fleet exclusive servers will be persistent and have an ingame and external chat lobby, I don't see why the same frequency can't be adapted.

The games I am goin to script are not going to be primarily free-for-all deathmatches (though they will be available). The idea is to create involving story based scripts which people play their role in. And since the server is persistent, you die, you're outta there until the script terminates etc

All fleet related scripts will encompass space and planetary scenarios with varying goals, rewards and resolution phases

---

Yahoo, and I ***applaud*** your decision!!!

Just some questions:-

1) Will there be scripts for UCVÔÇÖs?

2) If there are will our Corporation be included when it is approved?

3) Are the scripts strictly reserved for authorship by yourself and others you appoint or can anyone of us script our own epics/missions into the server?

All in all, I foresee no problems with your decision in fact it will impart a new kind of MP game to all of us!!!

[Guest Remo Williams]

quote:

---

The fact is that on fleet servers, there is no such thing as free-for-all. Members in a fleet will be expected to follow orders from fleet leaders (if online) and be able to continue on their orders if the FL is not online. Heck, people visit this forum a lot, and since the fleet exclusive servers will be persistent and have an ingame and external chat lobby, I don't see why the same frequency can't be adapted.

---

This is why I think all the AWOL or MIA members of Prime Fleet should be removed from the DB. If there not active in the forum they shouldn't be in a fleet.

[Guest]

I was just playing with you Badgerius, yeah, I know we all have a few open slots, because commanders are AWOL.

I agree with Remo, we need to clean out the Prime fleet database badly. I think that one more effort should be made to contact the AWOL commanders, and then if there is no response, we need to clean out the deadweight.

Then after BCM is shipping we start to fill those slots with the newbies, or with any vets that want to join up. It will give us a few openings to fill, that's for sure!!

[ 10-01-2001: Message edited by: Jaguar ]

[Thomas Siemens]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Supreme Cmdr:

Frankly, I don't have a frigging clue why Gudihl even wasted my time explaining it to him (re: Valari), yet, I don't see any word of it posted in any of the fleet forums. And people wonder why I just ignore such emails.

---

Sorry, chief. I sent another email after that with some question about the matter, and I just wanted to wait for an answer to "go public". Also, there was no decision yet if there would be any RPGing involved, when Prime moves into Velari.

Did not want to cause any stress...

Best regards.

[Supreme Cmdr]

whew!! where do I start?

quote:

---

So with 2 wings (Alpha, Beta) assigned to GalcomHQ, 1 wing (Gamma) to Genesis, and 2 (Delta, Epsilon) to Starpath, Epsilon seemed the best choice to move to Velari. (Epsilon, BTW, is among the more active of our wings, with 2 commanders

---

OK. Epsilon is off to Velari then. That settles that.

quote:

---

Uhmmm, aahh SC IÔÇÖm a little confused here, does your statement only mean established military fleets or all fleets, UCV and the organisation Riga and myself are pushing for and SpuzzumÔÇÖs Terran Core Police?

---

UCVs and organizations are included. While they are not fleets, they fit the profile of being on those dedicated servers.

quote:

---

1) Will there be scripts for UCVÔÇÖs?

2) If there are will our Corporation be included when it is approved?

3) Are the scripts strictly reserved for authorship by yourself and others you appoint or can anyone of us script our own epics/missions into the server?

---

See above. There are no race/caste dedicated scenarios. If you log on to a server running a scenario, you can play if you have access. UCVs are not important enough in the general scheme of things to warrant the attention of doing scenarios revolving around them. Unless of course a UCV entity is a target. So, if the scenario that is running, is focused on Ter/Mil vs Ter/Ins engagement and a UCV enters, then its up to you to do what you want. Of course, the server is not going to allow UCVs to login when the allowed fleet positions are not filled. e.g. a 32 player server with 30 human fleet players online, won't allow any UCV login.

The fact is, as UCV, you won't be able to login to dedicated fleet servers because I'm not going to allow it. I may allow maybe 4 non-fleet slots, but no more. I will have a free-for-all server running a roam scenario. On those servers, anyone can login - fleet or not.

Nobody will be allowed to upload scripts to my servers. Are you kidding me? And IF I allow Internet servers (which is highly unlikely at this point), then anyone running their server can do what the heck they like on it. The same way they can on their internal LAN.

quote:

---

This is why I think all the AWOL or MIA members of Prime Fleet should be removed from the DB. If there not active in the forum they shouldn't be in a fleet.

---

I agree. FCs, go do it.

quote:

---

Did not want to cause any stress...

---

No worries. Blame Epsilon 5. Had he not incorrectly posted that Velari was captured, I wouldn't have remembered.