Fleet Recruitment Reorganization Proposal

[aramike]

I've been reading up on the disparities between fleet personnel levels, and thought I'd throw another alternative in there. Note: This is from the Aramike perspective, not an Insurgent's perspective.

As of this moment (just when through the recruits), we have 219 people registered in the fleet DB. Out of those, 184 are in actual organized fleets (the remainder are undesignated).

Looking at the fleet lists, there are some with tons of commanders, others with next to nil. Many of those are from the same alliance, which makes the problem even more ironic.

I propose this: first, all alliances purge the DB of the elusive ghost commanders, who aren't actually active. They don't need to be in there to screw up our counts.

After that is complete, ALL alliance personnel should be placed into a SINGLE POOL (this does not include Fleet and Wing commanders). From that pool, those people should be assigned evenly to all fleets. After this is complete, ALL future recruits would be ALLIANCE recruits. Then the powers-that-be would work together to figure out who needs who.

EDIT: Or, as an alternative, the fleets are just evened out as need.

Advantages:

-Not only would this even out the fleet numbers, it would also be more realistic. If someone enlists in the Navy, they generally don't pick what fleet they want in. Rather, they generally only get to pick the service.

-Fleets would be further equalized, causing a more even-handed gaming experience.

-This would encourage activity between fleets and their personnel, as each recruit would require an assessment as to where he's needed.

Disadvantages:

-Some people will ***** about not being assigned where they want to.

What do you all think?

[ 10-01-2001: Message edited by: aramike ]

[Guest $iLk]

We could do like we did in kindergarden and place all non FC commanders into a pool and take turns picking (NOTE: INSURGENTS and GALCOM into different pools) UCV are seperate and can be whatever.

SO in Galcom Pool you have what, 4 FC's?

so they take turns picking 1 apiece until pool is empty.

Of course to make this work you would have to purge the FDB except for FC's...

WARNING: ONLY A DRASTIC MEASURE in the event of INACTIVE COMMANDERS.

[Guest]

Well being a wing commander, and therefore it won't effect me, I think it sounds like a good plan.

A number of us have requested a clearing of the Databases, due to absent and AWOL commanders. But yes, I think your proposal has definite merit!!

[Guest Remo Williams]

This is going to open a can of worms. LOL! But it is logical and realistic.

[GREG MILLER]

I am sorry, but this would be a BIG blow to fleet morale.

Why?

Simple, I chose Orion for a reason, as it was where I wanted to serve. I passed Prime, because I thought they had enough Commanders, ISS is not where I wanted to be, and Wraith just didn't fit my liking, Insurgent or Earthcom, I was not.

If I was put somewhere I didn't want to be, I'd rather stick it out as an indie.

Now tell me why I would want to participate and help out, if I didn't want to be there in the first place?

[Blades]

*Ahem*

Excuse me? Are you kidding? This has to rate as one of the worst ideas in the history of bad ideas. Ok, maybe thats a little harsh but here are my reasons all the same.

While it may be a good idea to pool commanders from some fleets to help even things out, there is no way in hell I would ever agree to such a thing with my own organisation. Primary reasons being that I've spent the better part of two years building this fleet up to what it is and would be pissed beyond recognition if I had my people dispersed to fill the gaps in other fleets. That takes away all of the accomplishments of my fleet and the people who have served under me for all this time.

It would be like punishing someone for being successful. That is dangerous if you ask me. I admit, If I were in the same position as some (if not all) of the other fleet commanders, I would probably welcome an influx from other sources. However, im not in that position because I have a healthy number of commanders, and do not want to divide them up and have them drafted to other fleets.

I am against this 100%. A more sensible solution is to improve the recruitment efforts of the other fleets. This is somthing we at Orion are already trying to do, and have been doing with other ventures recently. (To those in the know, does J.O.C ring any bells?!?)

Anyway, panic attack over for the time being. I eagerly anticipate strongly worded responses in this thread.

[aramike]

quote:

---

Originally posted by $iLk:

We could do like we did in kindergarden and place all non FC commanders into a pool and take turns picking (NOTE: INSURGENTS and GALCOM into different pools) UCV are seperate and can be whatever.

SO in Galcom Pool you have what, 4 FC's?

so they take turns picking 1 apiece until pool is empty.

Of course to make this work you would have to purge the FDB except for FC's...

WARNING: ONLY A DRASTIC MEASURE in the event of INACTIVE COMMANDERS.

---

Oh the insanity...

Actually, it would first require a fleet size prognosis. Shouldn't Prime have more than ISS? So, we'd come up with some relative sizes for each fleet.

Then, we simply move who we have. As more commanders sign up, they go where they are needed.

[aramike]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Blades:

*Ahem*

Excuse me? Are you kidding? This has to rate as one of the worst ideas in the history of bad ideas. Ok, maybe thats a little harsh but here are my reasons all the same.

While it may be a good idea to pool commanders from some fleets to help even things out, there is no way in hell I would ever agree to such a thing with my own organisation. Primary reasons being that I've spent the better part of two years building this fleet up to what it is and would be pissed beyond recognition if I had my people dispersed to fill the gaps in other fleets. That takes away all of the accomplishments of my fleet and the people who have served under me for all this time.

It would be like punishing someone for being successful. That is dangerous if you ask me. I admit, If I were in the same position as some (if not all) of the other fleet commanders, I would probably welcome an influx from other sources. However, im not in that position because I have a healthy number of commanders, and do not want to divide them up and have them drafted to other fleets.

I am against this 100%. A more sensible solution is to improve the recruitment efforts of the other fleets. This is somthing we at Orion are already trying to do, and have been doing with other ventures recently. (To those in the know, does J.O.C ring any bells?!?)

Anyway, panic attack over for the time being. I eagerly anticipate strongly worded responses in this thread.

---

*Ahem*

It wouldn't REQUIRE your fleet or personnel to be disbanded. It would require SOME people to be moved around (as is going to happen ANYWAY, if you've been reading the threads). And look at the topic of this thread: RECRUITMENT PROPOSAL.

Now if you'd like to tell me WHAT purpose it would serve for ONE fleet to have the MOST members, thus being the fleet to have the most GAME say? And when THAT happens, NO ONE will go into OTHER fleets. That is why ALL recruits should go where they are NEEDED, ACCORDING TO ALLIANCE.

When I said to "pool" the existing personnel, I did NOT mean to remove them from their fleets, I meant to see who is where and move them where they are NEEDED.

So calm the heck down!

quote:

---

Simple, I chose Orion for a reason, as it was where I wanted to serve. I passed Prime, because I thought they had enough Commanders, ISS is not where I wanted to be, and Wraith just didn't fit my liking, Insurgent or Earthcom, I was not.

---

Uhm ok....

Under the NEW system, recruits would choose GALCOM, EARTHCOM, or INSURGENT. They'd then be organized into the main battlefleets (Prime, Orion, for example). The specialized fleets would then pull their people from these, if they are up to muster. That seems pretty REALISTIC, but, more IMPORTANTLY, it would be BALANCED.

[ 10-01-2001: Message edited by: aramike ]

[Cmdr Nova]

How 'bout us that like our fleet? (Ep5 asked this earlier, IIRC)

I joined Orion Fleet because I was given an offer. I was asked, I thought about it, then I said yes. I joined Orion fleet and I wouldn't appreciate it if I were moved.... That's just me, though.

Don't like the pool idea. Nay, for me.

Perhaps we should just purge the inactives, wait for the fresh BCM Newbie Recruit flood, double check the numbers and adjust as needed. First use the people that are volunteering/requesting to move. After volunteers, then we could work out a pool, or transfer system of some sort. Prime Fleet is currently thinking of 'dontating' some of their commanders to ISS. Let's just hope they're active.

[aramike]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Cmdr Nova:

How 'bout us that like our fleet? (Ep5 asked this earlier, IIRC)

I joined Orion Fleet because I was given an offer. I was asked, I thought about it, then I said yes. I joined Orion fleet and I wouldn't appreciate it if I were moved.... That's just me, though.

Don't like the pool idea. Nay, for me.

Perhaps we should just purge the inactives, wait for the fresh BCM Newbie Recruit flood, double check the numbers and adjust as needed. First use the people that are

volunteering

/

requesting

to move. After volunteers,

then

we could work out a pool, or transfer system of some sort. Prime Fleet is currently thinking of 'dontating' some of their commanders to ISS. Let's just hope they're active.

---

Did you miss half the thread along with the thread title?

No one would be REMOVED from their current stations except as needed (which is already going to happen).

[Blades]

Sorry Mike, but from where Im reading what you proposed sound an awful lot like pooling existing fleet members from all alliance fleets and assigning them evenly. It doesnt suggest anything else to me at all. Maybe Im missing somthing here. If I am, im available on ICQ so you can educate my misinformed ass.

And yes, I understand it was only a proposal, not letter of law. Im not angry, so no need to calm down.

Im not completely against the idea of pooling new recruits into a pool and dividing them up where they are needed, but who would get to make this descision, and would they have the right to do so? All the fleets have their own distinct reasons for being - reasons why people are attracted to them. Take the right to choose your assignment away from people, and you're limiting their potential if you ask me.

No, leave things as they are. Let the fleets manage their own recruitment. If numbers are low and people are not interested in joining a particular fleet, then it's up to the existing fleet members themselves to make their organisations more attractive to newbies. Help and advice can be offered and given. Sure, each fleet would prefer to bolster it's members with it's own propaganda - but thats the nature of the fleets. Always has been.

BCM is here. Derek has built it. They will come. Purge the database of dead commanders. Leave the living where they are. Encourage the leaders to improve their recruitment efforts. Dont force a change on things. No good will come of it.

[Blades]

quote:

---

No one would be REMOVED from their current stations except as needed (which is already going to happen).

---

This is already going to happen, is it? Wheres the thread which details this, cos I seemed to have missed it.

[Guest]

If I get you correctly, you want to put all Alliance players into one pool and let the FC's pick their personnel from that pool?

Baaaaad idea imo. I have no right whatsoever to tell any player what fleet they will be in. Each fleet has its niche and purpose in their alliances. What right do I have to tell a player that enjoys the big ass gun approach to combat that he will serving in an Intelligence/Support fleet?

The bigger question will be, will that player just say "ok, I wont have as much fun but i'll do it so the fleets balance out in #'s" or will that player "yeah right! *leaves fleet/becomes indie/returns game*"?

If it was me, id take the 2nd choice without a second thought. Its a game I paid for it will be a game I play for MY enjoyment, not for some FC that needs numbers.

When the newbies roll in we will get a TON of people joining up. It will be up to the FC's as to how many and WHO they allow in.

[Gallion]

Hate to say this but I agree with Blades on this.

If I were a newbie and decided to join Prime Fleet, it is up to the FC to assign me where I would be needed with in Prime Fleet based on my Career Choice.

The same would hold true for anyone joining a fleet. The FL is the one responsible for balancing personnel within his fleet.

TTFN

[ 10-01-2001: Message edited by: Gallion ]

[Blades]

Gah! Bet that tasted bad going down, Gallion.

[Supreme Cmdr]

My 0.02c? This pooling issue is a BAD idea.

At any rate, flushing of innactive cmdrs should be the first priority.

How we end up distributing the existing fleet members should be up to the FCs, not one unilateral decision. And if by the time the game ships you guys don't have your act in gear, I'll step in and do something...uhm, anything.

[Epsilon 5]

I'll add my voice to the roar of refusal, pooling is a bad idea.

Like most people already said, you choose a fleet becauce you think that's the best one for you. That contributes to the fun factor.

Beside, if you put the wrong people in the wrong fleet, you'll have the "incompetence" factor... meaning that some people wouldn't be able to do what the fleet is specialised in in a good enough manner. They would Help less to the fleet's succes as they would if they were if the one they should be in.

[aramike]

Dang it, forget the pooling idea. That wasn't extremely thought-out on my part.

The recruitment idea is primarily what I'm looking for discussion. Oh yeah, and it's only a proposal looking for points of view.

[peterkist]

quote:

---

Originally posted by aramike:

Dang it, forget the pooling idea. That wasn't extremely thought-out on my part.

The recruitment idea is primarily what I'm looking for discussion. Oh yeah, and it's only a proposal looking for points of view.

---

At intercorp we have a HR division (for training). All new recruits are placed there, trained so that they get the hang of the different divisions (like trading, mercenary, etc). Only after completing the training they are assigned to a division.

They get to choose this division themselves, but have some hands-on experience upon their choice can be based.

Could be the same with the fleets. Get new recruits in a training pool, let them see the different aspects of the different fleets and then let them make a choice (at least these frantic recruitment theads are over then )

note that this would _NOT_ affect the already assigned fleet members.

I might be wrong, but as far as I understand this is what aramike has in mind (err, you did, now didn't you.... )

[jstuart]

the idea has pros and cons

right now as of this posting, i went to FD and found this out:

Galcom

prime 59 total 124

orion 30

iss 13

wraith 22

Earthcom 20 total 20

Insurgents

spectre 14 total 40

eversor 10

balor 10

bisharmon 6

now these are the commanders listed, whether they are fully active or not we will soon know.

I agree you do need some form of recruitment and or reorganisation.

But you should not move members from 1 fleet to another.

clearly there is a number advantage to galcom! Better recruiting can be the answer, moving people around within your fleet structure on a temp basis maybe the answer.

what happens if the next 20 or so users who join up all choose galcom? A huge advantage, but it will make things lopsided in MP?

What if the next 20 people join and all go Indy?

You could put a freeze on enlisting to galcom(only a thought)and then people may join the Insurgents or Earthcom?

But some of you said that you joined your particular fleet for a particular reason and may not be interested in other fleets.

That then requires the current FC to do something for enlistment purposes?

Because actually the more even a playing field in fleet numbers, the more the individual users skils will be showcased!

If there is a 5 on 5 battle for instance, individual talents and skills at playing the game will surely shine instead of I have a bigger and better ship than you attitude.

[Supreme Cmdr]

LOL!! Mike, now you know what I got through when one coding bad idea doesn't work.

[aramike]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Supreme Cmdr:

LOL!! Mike, now you know what I got through when one coding bad idea doesn't work.

---

LOL! You ain't lyin'!

[Guest $iLk]

Um, throwing my opinion in again just with some ideas:

Alright, newbies come in, buy the game, want to join a fleet.

That's good, first thing pick your alliance withing established fleets:

GALACTIC COMMAND

EARTH COMMAND

INSURGENCY

Now that that's out of the way you choose your fleet: i.e. ORION, PRIME, ISS, etc.

Then they choose career - fighter pilot, commander, marine, etc.

Once there, just like it was when I joined ORION, the FC shifted me over to SARK BG which fit the profile.

Also was arranged so that North American Commanders are stationed together, for time zone differences.

Okay - this much is given.

My proposal for boosting number in fleets:

PHASE I : WE NEED NEWBIES TO PURCHASE THE GAME!!! NOT ONLY THAT BUT WE NEED TO GET THEM KNOWLEGABLE AND INTERESTED IN WANTING TO RP and MP.

PHASE II: PROPAGANDA - PERHAPS SOMETHING LIKE THE BACK OF THE RED FACTION BOX - SOME PROPAGANDA DESIGNED FOR EACH FLEET AND APPROVED BY THE SC. POSTERS almost like WW2 era stuff... OR COLD WAR PROPAGANDA outlining both sides of the conflict

PHASE III: OnCE NEWBIES CAN MAKE AN INFORMED DECISION, THEY CAN JOIN. RECRUITING OFFICERS FROM ALL FLEETS SHOULD HAVE CONTACT INFO LISTED ON A SPECIAL FLEET PAGE.

That's my ideas so far, what do you think?

[Guest $iLk]

BTW, presentations of each fleets position can be done in Photoshop and then linked to from a FLASHY fleet page... Also a disclaimer, warning them of what is expected. SC I'm going to swallow my fear and send you a PM later outlining some ideas...

[Guest]

*hands silk a glass of cold water*

Here, it goes down faster with this.