Guest Zillah Posted June 7, 2000 Report Share Posted June 7, 2000 Hey ya'll check this out.Scientists claim they have broken the ultimate speed barrier: the speed of light. In research carried out in the United States, particle physicists have shown that light pulses can be accelerated to up to 300 times their normal velocity of 186,000 miles per second. The implications, like the speed, are mind-boggling. On one interpretation it means that light will arrive at its destination almost before it has started its journey. In effect, it is leaping forward in time. Exact details of the findings remain confidential because they have been submitted to Nature, the international scientific journal, for review prior to possible publication. The work was carried out by Dr Lijun Wang, of the NEC research institute in Princeton, who transmitted a pulse of light towards a chamber filled with specially treated caesium gas. Before the pulse had fully entered the chamber it had gone right through it and travelled a further 60ft across the laboratory. In effect it existed in two places at once, a phenomenon that Wang explains by saying it travelled 300 times faster than light. The research is already causing controversy among physicists. What bothers them is that if light could travel forward in time it could carry information. This would breach one of the basic principles in physics - causality, which says that a cause must come before an effect. It would also shatter Einstein's theory of relativity since it depends in part on the speed of light being unbreachable. This weekend Wang said he could not give details but confirmed: "Our light pulses did indeed travel faster than the accepted speed of light. I hope it will give us a much better understanding of the nature of light and how it behaves." Dr Raymond Chiao, professor of physics at the University of California at Berkeley, who is familiar with Wang's work, said he was impressedby the findings. "This is a fascinating experiment," he said. In Italy, another group of physicists has also succeeded in breaking the light speed barrier. In a newly published paper, physicists at the Italian National Research Council described how they propagated microwaves at 25% above normal light speed. The group speculates that it could be possible to transmit information faster than light. Dr Guenter Nimtz, of Cologne University, an expert in the field, agrees. He believes that information can be sent faster than light and last week gave a paper describing how it could be done to a conference in Edinburgh. He believes, however, that this will not breach the principle of causality because the time taken to interpret the signal would fritter away all the savings. "The most likely application for this is not in time travel but in speeding up the way signals move through computer circuits," he said. Wang's experiment is the latest and possibly the most important evidence that the physical world may not operate according to any of the accepted conventions. In the new world that modern science is beginning to perceive, sub-atomic particles can apparently exist in two places at the same time - making no distinction between space and time. Separate experiments carried out by Chiao illustrate this. He showed that in certain circumstances photons - the particles of which light is made - could apparently jump between two points separated by a barrier in what appears to be zero time. The process, known as tunnelling, has been used to make some of the most sensitive electron microscopes. The implications of Wang's experiments will arouse fierce debate. Many will question whether his work can be interpreted as proving that light can exceed its normal speed - suggesting that another mechanism may be at work. Neil Turok, professor of mathematical physics at Cambridge University, said he awaited the details with interest, but added: "I doubt this will change our view of the fundamental laws of physics." Wang emphasises that his experiments are relevant only to light and may not apply to other physical entities. But scientists are beginning to accept that man may eventually exploit some of these characteristics for inter-stellar space travel. I'm still trying to locate the site this came from. When I do I'll let ya'll know. CMDR Zillah out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Cmdr Josh Dilvorn Posted June 7, 2000 Report Share Posted June 7, 2000 Cool stuff.. perhaps I may just get to boldly go where no man has gone before, after all. quote:The group speculates that it could be possible to transmit information faster than light.Hey, just had another thought. It could mean that we all our copies of BCM before they are even released!!------------------ Commander Josh Dilvorn GCV Conquest ISS06 Defense Wing Commander - ISS Fleet ISS Homepage GCV Conquest Home "Honour is what no man can give you, and no man can take away" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supreme Cmdr Posted June 7, 2000 Report Share Posted June 7, 2000 http://www.nytimes.com/library/national/sc...sics-light.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eclipse Posted June 7, 2000 Report Share Posted June 7, 2000 I must say, that is most definately an interesting article. Hmmm, maybe we will finally have a decent longrange comms system. Who knows *shrugs and moves away*------------------ Cmdr. Antilles Spectre Fleet Spectre Starstation ICV- Eclipse Chief Security Officer Learning is not compulsory... Neither is survival. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 7, 2000 Report Share Posted June 7, 2000 1.21 gigawatts!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parias Posted June 7, 2000 Report Share Posted June 7, 2000 *Cackles psychotically*The power.. THE POWER! UWA HAHAHHA! I will have enough bandwith to rule the entire WORLD!...Or not, I'm lazy ------------------ Cmdr. Parias Spectre Fleet Chief Engineer, Starstation Destiny ICV-Galatae ICQ:1293359 Staff member at HardNews "Next time you're passing by and feel like dropping in, keep passing by untill you get to a river, and THEN drop in." -Jake Logan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 8, 2000 Report Share Posted June 8, 2000 "The most likely application for this is not in time travel but in speeding up the way signals move through computer circuits,"A computer with this kind of processing power means Windows will crash even faster.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest aramike01 Posted June 8, 2000 Report Share Posted June 8, 2000 Ledge- LOL! A strong point you make. This reminds me of a quantum physics course I took while studying for my masters. We were asked to write a paper on the defining factors of temporal theory and try to come up with ways breach Einstein space/time. In case no one here is familiar with it, quantum mechanics and theory is essentially the study of universal alterations by way of adjusting the molecular/quantum build of the primary and simplist particles that make up our universe; namely hydrogen, photons (pure), light-photons (the only measurable "physical" property of light), and atomic spin. The theory is based primarily on whether or not light photons can be adjusted thereby creating a new universe to accomodate the change. Hydrogen is used because it contains the smallest number of pure photonic energy and thus, it is much easier to measure.The problem with quantum physics is that it is mostly theoretical at this point. I'm quite sure that at this time, none of the findings are substantiated. Nonetheless, this experiment either completely proves the primary factors of quantum adjustment, or totally disproves it. Read on.As stated earlier, some scientists believe that adjusting the photonic rotation of any given photon creates a new universe to accomodate the change. The question remains: What happens to the original universe? Obviously it doesn't cease to exist. Mankinds existance proves this. Does that mean the multiple universes exist along the same temporal plane? So is believed by some. How many? The factors of change are infinate and so is the amount of universal accomodations.What does all this mean? Simple. It essentially means that everything that can happen, does happen, along the same temporal plane but in a different universe. Who knows, you may even be the president somewhere.How does all of this apply? Go back to the experiment that brought all of this up. Effectively, the temporal plane was broken by exceeding a certain velocity. It is thought that, barring interference from the the laws of physics, (which may not even apply in the presence of a newly found type of matter, black matter), an object (photon, primarily) could theoretically travel back in time simply by attaining a speed so great that the object arrives at it's destination before it leaves. To simplify, think of traveling across the internation date line via airplane after leaving, say, the US. You've effectively (for applied purposes) traveled a day back in time. Years ago, travel was strictly by sea and as such, you'd travel too slowly to actually arrive at your destination before you left. Scientists say that this experiment could never be used to adjust past events. This backs up quantum theorist belief. However, in reference to the scientist quoted in the article and basics of quantum theory, his reasoning is flawed. He said that the time it would take to essentially process the information and return it would offset the saved time, thus, the information would be "too late" to adust the future. My point is, if you can do it once, you can do it again, meaning, go "back in time" to predict information, process, than acheive a greater speed thus going further "back in time" to adjust events. In fact, if the process was constant, one bit of information could be sent infinately backwards alone the temporal plane. That said, according to quantum theory, we still could not change the past.The reasoning is simple: Quantum properties at a certain point in time cannot remain unchanged as time passes. So states (if I recall correctly) the third law of thermodynamics: As an object travels into the future, it's entropy cannot decrease.Let's say you were to travel back in time. Would your age decrease as you crossed the temporal plane? According to quantum physics, the answer is a resounding no. A new universe would branch to accomodate the change in your temporal state meaning that you would remain unchanged while your universe would change as you traveled in reverse along the temporal plane. To take this a step further, that new universe would exist on it's own with no relationship to the universe you just left. You would know the future of that particular universe and be able to alter them. However, what is known as a temporal paradox would not occur due to the fact that you are in a completely seperate and isolated universe in relation to the one you just left. So, you would change the future for the universe you are in, but life for the people existing in your original universe would carry on as though you were dead. All this means that, if the general theories of quantum physics are true, infinate speeds are not possible without being able to contain a given amount of information within a single universe. Further meaning, something could travel so fast as to take no time at all, but any higher a velocity, would make that something cease to exist.Only time will tell.PS- Got a little carried away. Whoops! ------------------ Cmdr. Michael Kristophers Spectre Fleet Commanding Officer, Spectre StarStation ICV-Intrepid Recruitment Officer "You won't get the Purple Heart hiding in a foxhole!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eclipse Posted June 8, 2000 Report Share Posted June 8, 2000 *shakes head and pretends to understand Mike's thesis* Uh doesn't Quantum Physics also deal with a cat Is the cat alive or dead, mike? ------------------ Cmdr. Antilles Spectre Fleet Spectre Starstation ICV- Eclipse Chief Security Officer Learning is not compulsory... Neither is survival. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest aramike01 Posted June 8, 2000 Report Share Posted June 8, 2000 Er, Eclipse, LOL! I think you are refering to the Shroedinger's (sp?) Cat theory. That, in truth, has nothing to do with quantum science. More or less it's the same as a well known philosophical question: If a tree falls in the woods and no one's around to hear it, does it make a sound?To break the cat theory down to it's purpose (poor feline), according to one of the more far-fetched properties quantum theory the cat is both alive and dead just before it's observed. The introduction of observation forces it to create two universes-one in which the observer finds the cat alive and the other in which it's dead. But I don't by into that too much as it relies on the introduction of observation which, in reality, doesn't have any bearing on the state of perceived objects. Quantum science, on the other hand, relies upon the direct manipulation of photons by way of tangible actions. I hardly consider observation a tangible action and doing so wouldn't force the universe to choose, per se, whether or not the cat is alive and create another to accomodate both states of existance. Think chaos theory.A man goes through the McDonald's drive-thru. Orders a hamburger. Finds out that for some odd reason the guy ahead of him purchased the last one. Extremely upset, the guy drives recklessly through traffic and kills someone while running a red light. Now, what if the guy ahead of him decides to cheack his bag before moving his car, thus, forcing the distraught man to remain at his location for, say, 10 seconds longer. The person he would have kill would be past the intersection by the time the angry man arrived and as such, he/she wouldn't die. Quantum theory uses this as a principle. All of the aforementioned events occur, yet we are only stuck with the knowledge of one. The cat thing basically says that observation of these events actually changes these events in our universe. A bit too far-fetched for me. I think that, because in the "experiment" the box is to be opened at the exact time that the element's half-life is to expire, the breakdown of the element is what would cause the fission of universes. Not observation. In as much, the theory is more philosophical than anything.------------------ Cmdr. Michael Kristophers Spectre Fleet Commanding Officer, Spectre StarStation ICV-Intrepid Recruitment Officer "You won't get the Purple Heart hiding in a foxhole!" [This message has been edited by aramike01 (edited 06-08-2000).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel Sedlacek Posted June 8, 2000 Report Share Posted June 8, 2000 So your saying, for example, a person born at say... 8:30 AM is in one universe. The Quantum Theory thing states that there are universes where the guy was born at 7:59 AM, 8:31 AM, 8:32 AM, and so on and so forth? If so, it's no wonder the dang universe is constantly expanding, or else it'd get pretty crowded over here! I bet theres even a seperate universe where we never had this discussion about discussing Quantum Theory....I need to go lie down...------------------ Commander Daniel Sedlacek GCV Millennium ISS16 Tactical Support Wing - ISS Fleet ISS Homepage Hazardous Conduct Homepage "The general who advances without coveting fame and retreats without fearing disgrace, whose only thought is to protect his country and do good service for his sovereign, is the jewel of the kingdom." Sun Tzu, The Art of War Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest aramike01 Posted June 8, 2000 Report Share Posted June 8, 2000 Actually, Daniel, that's exactly what I'm not saying. The temporal plane wouldn't be adjusted, just the events. In other words, a baby born at 8:30am in one universe may be born in another with a defect, in another not at all, in another born with a different father, etc.------------------ Cmdr. Michael Kristophers Spectre Fleet Commanding Officer, Spectre StarStation ICV-Intrepid Recruitment Officer "You won't get the Purple Heart hiding in a foxhole!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 8, 2000 Report Share Posted June 8, 2000 Really interesting stuff! I wish I could get into that field of research... hmm.. I take that back, that means years of math courses.. .and that gives me the creeps just to think about it. Heck, all this is basically Sliders meets Time Trax! (can you put it in better layman's terms? LOL).Ledge: DONT SCARE ME LIKE THAT MAN! Windows: FTL. (I cant even imagine the slogan!! Its too evil to even consider it).Josh: AMEN my man! Amen! I thought that the light speed barrier had been broken years ago...using glass or something.. I remember hearing of that in my physics class in 1997!Zillah, Aramike, Please keep that data coming, its FASCINATING!.Parias as president.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel Sedlacek Posted June 8, 2000 Report Share Posted June 8, 2000 I wish I could have a FTL internet connection. The new Half-Life patch was released today, and every single download site on the net has got to be overflowing with people! It's pure madness... oh well. 50 bytes down, 27.1 megs to go... [This message has been edited by Daniel Sedlacek (edited 06-08-2000).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest aramike01 Posted June 8, 2000 Report Share Posted June 8, 2000 The thought of having Parias as president is, God, I don't even want to think about the implications... Actually, Tac, the stuff I'm saying is quite basic in the field. Just a side course I took while studying for my literature MBA. As for the mathematics of quantum applications, if you break them into their simplist forms, you really don't have math at all considering the fact that the word "infinite" seems to be quite popular in the field. For those interested here's a good brain-teaser: Say a ship leaves Earth destined for Pluto. There are camera crews at each end of the journey, broadcasting live. To keep it simple, let's say the broadcast signal takes about an hour to reach Earth from Pluto, and vice-versa. The ship's velocity is such that it arrives as Pluto ten hours before it leaves Earth. What would the people on Earth see an hour after the arrival?The answer leads to an infinate number of possibilities. One of the principle ideas in quantum theory is this: A single object can not be in two places at the same time.So would the ship be gone? According to quantum theory, no. The ship would arrive at it's destination just after it leaves Earth. When I say just after, I'm not talking in seconds, here. An immeasurably small amount of time would have elapsed. Just like the smallest unit of matter is thought to be a quark, quantum theory believes that time must have a similar property. In fact, quantum theory dictates that time has an entire set of properties just like conventional matter. So in essence, that smallest unit of time would have passed. Wait a second here...then how can I say that the ship arrived before it left, if indeed that is not the case?This is where the theory takes a twist that's hard to comprehend. There is absolutely no way that the ship can exist in the same universe at the same time. So, to accomodate the change, a new universe is branched off. Or, even wilder, the ship enters an already pre-existing universe which would accomodate the properties of the temporal shift. Say the ship leaves Earth in it's initial universe at 1300. It is to arrive at it's destination about ten hours earlier, at 0300. The universe it entered may have launched the ship at 0300 thus it arrives at the time it left, or rather, inperceptively (maybe .0000000000000000000000000000000001 seconds, probably even less) later. The crew is unaware of the change. For the ship to enter a pre-existing universe, several factors need to take place. The first universe must have the ship's velocity just right in order for the ship to arrive at a precise time. Secondly, the second universe must have the same ship departing on the same experiment EXACTLY 10 hours prior to the departure of the initial ship. And, all determination factors of the second universe must be precisely equal to that of the first, meaning, it's the exact same universe as the first except for a minor differing occurance in it's past. That occurance has to be one that does not alter the state of being that the second universe has-it just has a minor event which forced the creation of another universe such as some guy taking a left when he was supposed to go right, and he caught a green light at the first intersection allowing him to arrive at his destination at the exact same time as he would otherwise. Remember, all possible events occur in a different universe, so a new one always branches off regardless.This process is informally called a "quantum jump". However, considering the extremely precise factors required for such a jump, it would be computationally impossible to do intentionally. The scary part is that during this process, in order for something to travel into a pre-existing universe, the intitial universe and the second one must cross, meaning, for a immeasurably small amount of time, two universes become one. Two exact duplicate universes. If this were to happen, they'd cancel each other out and both would cease to exist. So, if by some reason you were to leave this universe and technology was advanced enough for someone to try and send you back, it would be impossible. Okay, now that we've narrowed out time-travel let's take this into the wild realm, shall we?Some believe that natural gateways between universes already exist. Some use this to describe the black-hole phenomena that exists in space. The believe is based on some type of an event that is so powerful, it cannot be contained in any single given universe so a rift is formed between the two (or more) that is required to accomodate the event. Any matter or light that travels through this rift immediately ceases to exist as it meets the other universe as that same matter and light exist in both. Even wilder- Some believe that each universe is on it's own temporal plane. This thinking comes from the idea that is takes time for a new universe to form. Obviously this temporal plane discrepency would be inconcievably small. That's not the wild part, though. The wild part comes in when people try to write off deja vu as an echo of another extremely similar universe. Same thing applies to someone having a dream which occurs the next day. Their saying that while we sleep, someone exactly one day off of our temporal plane is laying in their bed in the exact same position that we are sleeping, and thinking about the events of the past day...before you experience them. And that can explain intuition as well. Some people just seem to know what's coming, heh? Ever wonder why some people are just luckier than others? They may have an alter-ego living in another universe exactly the same as theirs just off of their temporal plane by a nanosecond. I won't even start on psychic powers (which I don't believe in, btw... in fact, I have very little faith in this highly controversial and unsubstantiated science, but I'll let you decide). Finally, I'll let you all in on the basics (of you're not asleep yet). What causes all of this? What causes a new universe to be branched? Why does that happen?This is the simplist part of all, actually. Everyone at some point in their lives think these words: "What if?". So does the universe. Sounds weird? It really isn't that strange. I mean, when you think about it, the widely accepted Big Bang theory is strange. What created that initial compressed particle that exploded? But I digress...The principle is that the universe is much more than the time and space that surrounds us. The universe, in a manner of speaking, is alive. It has the same basic struggle as all life: How to adapt to changes which threaten it's very existance. A galactic application of Darwin's survival of the fittest. Look at the facts. First, the universe creates. What do you think deposited the amino acids on this planet from which we evolve? Secondly, the universe grows. It is thought that it will expand infinitely, or until it collapses upon itself due to too much growth.Thus leads us to point number three: The universe may actually die. Since the universe is much more sophisticated and BASIC than we can comprehend, it's adaptations may also be such. It may not have always been like this. Maybe there was a cosmic event billions and billions of years ago that threatened the existance of the universe. So it created a new one to accomodate the change. In doing so, the properties of the universe itself changes, becoming a yet-to-be-discovered law of science. If the properties of the universe itself changes to allow the creation of new universes, a new universe may branch off to accomodate that change. That particular universe becomes extremely prolific, creating an infinite number of universes because of one of it's simplist, core properties.Well, there you have it. Try to understand it but don't be bothered if you don't. God knows I don't. But keep in mind, if your thinking Einstein's laws and theories, you won't get too far. This stuff flies in the face of all that. However, it does allow for them to remain true to the point that two universes can never cross. ------------------ Cmdr. Michael Kristophers Spectre Fleet Commanding Officer, Spectre StarStation ICV-Intrepid Recruitment Officer "You won't get the Purple Heart hiding in a foxhole!" [This message has been edited by aramike01 (edited 06-08-2000).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cruis.In Posted June 8, 2000 Report Share Posted June 8, 2000 what you mean is there different dimensions, or reality, because there are not definitely multiple universes, because the universe, means everything thats created. so you are refering to dimensions etc...------------------ Commander Cruis.In Spectre Fleet CEO, Sygan Star Station ICV Defiance"Dare to be defiant" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest aramike01 Posted June 9, 2000 Report Share Posted June 9, 2000 Cruisin, you are mincing words. Quantum theory uses the word "universe" implicitly. The universe does not mean everything that is created. It means everything that we know has been created that abides by the understood laws of science. By nature, we do not know of the existance of any other universe, hence, it has not been created. And, how can something that has been created exist twice in the same universe? People once thought that an atom was the smallest possible measurable particle that exists. Today we have a quark. What has been termed the universe doesn't neccessarily have to be the largest measurement of nature, either.For example, you hear today's scientists debating constantly about whether or not the universe will someday collapse on itself. Well, if that's the case, that according to your definition these people and quantum physists must be wrong. Using applied theory, the universe may collapse on itself however, another universe may not. Get my point?[This message has been edited by aramike01 (edited 06-08-2000).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whisper Posted June 9, 2000 Report Share Posted June 9, 2000 Pretty niffty stuff there, Aramike. I've dabbled in a little bit of quantum physics myself, taking a class or two. Just a little reminder for you though; almost nothing in quantum physics is proved, and alot of the ideas that are out there right now are eqaully valid (deja vu too? A scientist always has an open mind...). I forget who, but some really high-up quantum physicst guy once said, "Anyone who claims to understand quantum physics is lying." I'm not saying your lying, per say, but perhaps a little...to sure. I'm no expert either, I;m just giving you a little freindly warning. If one is too deeply seated in ones beliefs, one should be aware that the airbag of truth misses he who is deepest in his knowalge . And fer all those who haven't a clue wih what dear Aramike is jabbering about, might I suggest a lovely little book on entry-level quantum physics: "Alice in Quantumland", by Robert Gilmore. Great little read, no math (YEA!) and this dude IS a physicst! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eclipse Posted June 9, 2000 Report Share Posted June 9, 2000 I'm not quite sure I understand all of that but what you are saying is the ship COULD use another universe to make their journey apear to end before it has started. But in doing that the ship is no longer part of the original universe and is now attached to the second universe. If thats the case then when they went home that evening, the people they know are not really the same people, and the crew is now living in an alter reality that is nearly an exact duplicate of the reality they left? and also would the ship appear to have "disappeared" in the original universe causing the people of that place to come to the conclusion that the mission was a failure while the crew and the second universe believe that the mission was a success? and finally if that was the case would that event cause the near duplicate universes to shift farther from each other while still maintaining the same temporal shift?I don't know if I read this right, so these questions will probably not have any logic if I did read wrong ------------------ Cmdr. Antilles Spectre Fleet Spectre Starstation ICV- Eclipse Chief Security Officer Learning is not compulsory... Neither is survival. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Cmdr Josh Dilvorn Posted June 9, 2000 Report Share Posted June 9, 2000 Eclipse, I could be wrong, but I got the impression that 'the ship' could travel at high speeds to reach it's destination with little to no time elapsed and still remain in the temporal plane/universe/whatever. However, if 'the ship' travels at such a great speed that it arrives at the destination before it has even left, then it has crossed over into another plane/universe/whatever. Example would be say if the Alpha Centauri Express leaves Earth at 0900 and arrives at Alpha Centauri at 0901. It would therefore stay in this universe. However, if it arrived at say 0859 then it would cease to exist in this universe and become part of it's own universe.Correct me if I'm wrong, anyone. ------------------ Commander Josh Dilvorn GCV Conquest ISS06 Defense Wing Commander - ISS Fleet ISS Homepage GCV Conquest Home "Honour is what no man can give you, and no man can take away" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 9, 2000 Report Share Posted June 9, 2000 I think you got it Josh. I love this stuff! I might even take it as a non-credit personal interest course if I even finish my bachelors degree You got the names or course number of those classes you folks took?I personally like the temporal plane theory. Makes a bit more sense than several universes that overlap at mathematically impossible odds (ok, extremely, extremely unlikely odds). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest aramike01 Posted June 9, 2000 Report Share Posted June 9, 2000 First, I respond to Whisper- quote:Try to understand it but don't be bothered if you don't. God knows I don't.You should have read what I wrote a little more closely. I've already said that I don't truly understand it.Now to quote you: quote:. Just a little reminder for you though; almost nothing in quantum physics is proved... Now to quote myself again: quote:The problem with quantum physics is that it is mostly theoretical at this point. I'm quite sure that at this time, none of the findings are substantiated.If you are going to comment on the vality of these writings, try to remind me something that I've already pointed out, or call me a liar, I suggest you read the entirety of the subject material. In case you don't understand, what that quote above is saying is that quantum physics is an unproven science. Care to debate, reach me on ICQ. quote:deja vu too? A scientist always has an open mind... Err, duh! I called that a wilder theory, not a totally unfounded one. I personally don't believe it but in truth, I don't believe most of this stuff. I've learned a few things during the course of my education and I'm passing what I've learned on to my friends here at the community as objectively as I can. If you do feel compelled to debate here, bring something to the table that I haven't already and get rid of the third-grade "he's lying" mentality.Eclipse, you're close. The ship would enter into the new universe but when they went home, the people would be the same. Remember, whenever a new universe is created, to accomodate a change, it's kind of like making a photocopy of a job application and filling it out two slightly different ways. The initial copy is the same, just the after-effect is different. Josh- Bingo!...almost. If the ship were to travel "back in time" as it where, it indeed would have to enter into a new universe to accomodate the temporal shift. This brings up the looser end of quatum physics (for Whisper, the least understood). The standard belief is that all universes exsist on a single temporal plane, meaning that if it's exactly 12:00 here, it's the same in all universes. Granted, some think that a minute amount of time passes during the creation of new universes but that is not highly accepted.So, taking that belief in mind, the ship truly does travel back in time. The reason that I brought this whole thing up, though, is the fact that we cannot change past events according to quantum physics. So why would it leave it's universe if it's only going to go to another universe exactly the same as the one it left, just at an earlier time?Well, the new universe is not a direct result of the so called "time travel" but rather a direct result of the new object entering into the universe, thus changing it. Remember, a new universe branches off to accomodate every change. Also remember: the same object cannot exist twice in the same universe. There's a mathematical formula for that but I can't quite recall it (it's BIG). To conclude, you wouldn't be able to change the past of your initial universe. In other words, it already happened and you can't stop it. But, you could theoretically change the past as you percieve it. Meaning, you could alter the new universes future. It just would have only an effect on he who traveled into the new universe. Tac- quote: I personally like the temporal plane theory. Makes a bit more sense than several universes that overlap at mathematically impossible odds (ok, extremely, extremely unlikely odds). Not sure I'm following you here, but I'll make a guess. I think you are refering to two completely seperate sciences here. A temporal plane is the universe's timeline, if you will. I think you are refering to the theory in regards to that all universes are on the same temporal plane. Am I correct?Give me a day or two and I'll get you some course names and numbers. I'll try to find one light on the math like the one I took. ------------------ Cmdr. Michael Kristophers Spectre Fleet Commanding Officer, Spectre StarStation ICV-Intrepid Recruitment Officer "You won't get the Purple Heart hiding in a foxhole!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rippen Posted June 9, 2000 Report Share Posted June 9, 2000 This sounds kind of like Micheal Moorcock's "Multiverse." Fantastic fiction...or if this discussion proves to be fact...well, who knows.I must say, this is definately the most intriguing thread I have ever read.Now I have questions of my own: At what velocity does a particle have to travel to "break" out of our universe and into another theoretically going back in time? What that implies is there really is a speed limit to the universe, it's just much greater than we originally percieved. That at velocity x, the actual time (not relative time) it takes for an object to get from one point to another is the the smallest amount of "actual time" possible. At x+1, enough energy is created to send the object back one smallest unit of time, which causes a different universe to branch off because the same matter/energy can't exist in the same universe without destroying itself. So, in essence, the creation of a new universe is a defensive property, or a survival instinct. Sounds like a living being to me.One more question: in the new universe created, the object, let's say the ship, appears at it's destination at 8:59, one minute before it leaves. Now, according to the thoery, a new universe is branched off at 8:59. What I'm wondering is, what happened to the ship that left at 9:00? Is the new universe just a slightly different one, where the ship left at the exact same time it arrived, instead of 9:00? Will the ships departure time record itself as 9:00 or 8:59 in the new universe? Since matter can't be created, something had to take it's place, or be exchanged when the ship jumped universes...right?Ouch...I think I just pulled something. Time to go lie down and think of midgets...edit: Just had a really funny thought: If they make engines that can travel faster than light and decide to name it after the person who discovered it we'd have...(drum roll)...the WANG DRIVE! Sounds like a porn space opera...[This message has been edited by Rippen (edited 06-09-2000).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hector Socas Navarro Posted June 9, 2000 Report Share Posted June 9, 2000 Just let me quote something before everybody goes nuts here (maybe too late?) ***********************************4. YAWN: PAPERS REPORT THAT THE SPEED OF LIGHT HAS BEEN BROKEN. Whoa, is this the old phase-velocity stuff that has confused generations of physics students? Recent experiments, cleverly contrived to give the appearance of superluminal transmission, have been hyped by, among others, the Sunday Times of London, which a year ago had RHIC at Brookhaven devouring the world (WN 23 Jul 99). Actually, you can see the same thing at the beach: the intersection of incoming and outgoing waves travels down the beach far faster than the wave velocity. Causality is preserved.THE AMERICAN PHYSICAL SOCIETY (Note: Opinions are the author's and are not necessarily shared by the APS, but they should be.) ------------------ See you out there, among the starsCmdr Nava, GCV Nemesis (Official BC3k tester) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest aramike01 Posted June 9, 2000 Report Share Posted June 9, 2000 One cannot precisely measure the required velocity for a shift on the temporal plane due to the fact that there is no way at this current time to "break down" time into it's smallest possible form. But do to Wang's experiment, the existance of that smallest form of time may very well be substantiated. quote:One more question: in the new universe created, the object, let's say the ship, appears at it's destination at 8:59, one minute before it leaves. Now, according to the thoery, a new universe is branched off at 8:59. What I'm wondering is, what happened to the ship that left at 9:00? Is the new universe just a slightly different one, where the ship left at the exact same time it arrived, instead of 9:00? The ship that left at 9:00 would be the same ship that arrives in the new universe at 8:59. The ship would cease to exist in the initial universe. And, the universe in which it arrives is exactly the same as the one it left, except for the events between 8:59 and 9:00 which would change due to the arrival of the ship. The only difference in the new universe would be the absence of the ship preparing to leave at 9:00. According to theory, it cannot exist along the same temporal plane. That ship would have left just before the new ship arrived and it would have traveled into yet another branched universe creating an infinite loop of departures and arrivals. Effectively, each ship does go back in time. However, it could not change the future because each universe exists as a seperate entity. The crew of the ship may be able to change their perceptable future but not that of the people they left behind in the intitial universe. quote:What that implies is there really is a speed limit to the universe, it's just much greater than we originally percieved. That at velocity x, the actual time (not relative time) it takes for an object to get from one point to another is the the smallest amount of "actual time" possible. At x+1, enough energy is created to send the object back one smallest unit of time, which causes a different universe to branch off because the same matter/energy can't exist in the same universe without destroying itself. So, in essence, the creation of a new universe is a defensive property, or a survival instinct. Sounds like a living being to me.Now that's intensive thinking! Your reasoning is sound and it seems like you've got a good grasp on this stuff! Hector, I think what we're refering to is a little more vast the your quote. The story was, basically, that the light exited the chamber before it had entered, thus being a higher velocity than ever recorded or thought possible.------------------ Cmdr. Michael Kristophers Spectre Fleet Commanding Officer, Spectre StarStation ICV-Intrepid Recruitment Officer "You won't get the Purple Heart hiding in a foxhole!" [This message has been edited by aramike01 (edited 06-09-2000).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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