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The meaning of Islam

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Guest $iLk

Thought provoking, though I haven't read the Quran yet so will need to in order to be more informed:

quote:

Debbie Schlussel

October 24, 2001

Coming to America?


In the weeks since the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks, President Bush has uttered a constant refrain: "Islam is Peace."

Wrong. Bush doesn't know any Arabic. Those with even a basic understanding of the language know that "salaam" is "peace" in Arabic. Islam means something entirely different.

"The Hans Wehr Dictionary of Modern Written Arabic," the dictionary of choice at the University of Michigan's renowned Arabic Department when I was an undergraduate, defines Islam as "submission, resignation." Other forms of the word, "taslim" and "istislam," mean "handing over, submission, surrender, capitulation, unreckoning approval, resignation."

And while there are peaceful forms of Islam, we need only look to Sudan ÔÇô our new coalition partner in the War Against Terrorism, and its radical Islamic supporters in the United States, to learn which meaning of "Islam" controls the Arab world, today. And to learn what they have in store for us.

Sudan is run with a bloody fist by Arab Muslim General Omar Ahmed el-Bashir, a strong supporter of Hamas, Islamic Jihad and other terrorist groups, which continue to train in Sudan. His country was the cozy home to Osama bin Laden and his deputy, Ayman al-Zawahiri, for quite some time. But if you are a black Christian or even a moderate Muslim, the submissive meaning of Islam is something you know quite well if you weren't murdered ÔÇô the fate of two million black Christians in Sudan, thus far.

Don't take this white chick's word for it. Black slavery in Sudan was disturbingly profiled by Marcus Mabry, in "Hell Up in Sudan," in the September 1999 issue of "The Source," a hip black magazine, which has the largest circulation of any magazine in the United States.

One of Mabry's typical examples of Sudan's 20-year war of brutality and torture of black Christians in Muslim Sudan is Alek Mayen Adal, now a 19-year-old girl. When she was only 13, she was captured by Arab Muslim raiders who forced her to watch them kill her father and beat her mother to death.

But that wasn't the worst part.

She was then repeatedly gang-raped by the Arab Muslims, who sold her to an Arab Muslim shopkeeper. By day, she slaved over his animals. By night, she was his sex-slave and housekeeper. She was also forced to say prayers from the Koran. Although she was freed after four years, she now has a half-Arab baby, fathered by her master, as a souvenir of her experience.

Achol Tong Nyan was also gang-raped and has a baby, the result of more rape by her Arab master, Ishmael. Another woman ÔÇô 50, at the time of the article ÔÇô was raped so many times by an Islamic militia, she fainted. "When she came to," Mabry wrote, "they forced her to drink her own urine." The same thugs bit off part of the left breast of another woman they raped.

This happens every day in Sudan. Thousands of black Christians, Animists, and moderate Muslims, considered transgressors of the shari'a ÔÇô orthodox Islamic law ÔÇô are treated to rape, limb amputation, torture or murder. The men are generally murdered, and the women are kept alive to produce more Muslims. Those who resist the gang-rapes get slit-throats. Is Islam, as practiced in Sudan, "peace" or "submission"? You don't need to know Arabic to make the call. Welcome to the Coalition Against Terrorism, and "ground zero in the global jihad," according to Dr. Charles Jacobs.

Jacobs, who champions the cause of persecuted black Christians in Muslim Sudan as president of the American Anti-Slavery Group, said the jihad-slaves in Sudan are "taken in a holy war to extend a radical version of Koranic law upon non-Muslims, and even upon African moderate Muslims who do not wish to be ruled by the National Islamic Front Islamo-fascists."

But, unfortunately, these poor souls are not championed by many prominent American black civil rights leaders ÔÇô people like Oprah Winfrey, Jesse Jackson, Louis Farrakhan and Jihad Cindy, Rep. Cynthia McKinney, D-Ga., ÔÇô or any of the Muslim Arab-American in-crowd they and President Bush are hanging out with, these days.

Take Oprah. Barbara Vogel, a teacher at Highline Elementary School in Aurora, Colo., and her 4th and 5th graders raised enough money to buy the freedom for 1,000 Sudanese slaves. They sent Oprah hundreds of letters with photos of the freed slaves. She told them the story was "too complicated" to feature on her show. Right, it wasn't as simple as her "Islam 101" whitewash propaganda with Queen Rania and a Pakistani female official and their rose-colored vision of Islam.

Then, there's Jesse Jackson. He says his plate is too full to support freedom for black Sudanese slaves. But maybe it's his connection with Jim Zogby, president of the Arab-American Institute, a chief fundraiser in Jackson's presidential bid, and that he and other mainstream Islamic leaders prominent at the White House defend Jihad-slavery and attack its critics.

Farrakhan, a friend of el-Bashir, challenged black reporters to produce proof of slavery. When they did, buying freedom of two boys, ages 10 and 12, he remained silent, refusing to condemn it. Jihad Cindy, too busy pandering to Saudi Prince Alwaleed, is also too busy collecting campaign checks from Jihad-slavery's radical Islamic supporters, like the American Muslim Council's Abdurahman Alamoudi ("Oh Allah, Destroy America!" $1,000) and Aly Abuzaakouk ($1,000) Islamic Jihad U.S. frontman, Dr. & Mrs. Sami Al-Arian ($2,000) and the radical Islam-controlled Arab American Leadership PAC ($3,000).

These Islamic groups openly attack American Christian leaders who press for jihad-slaves' freedom. The May 19-25 issue of "The Arab American News," published by Osama Siblani and his wife, CAIR official M. Kay Siblani, denigrates Rev. Franklin Graham, son of Billy Graham, Chuck Colson and other evangelicals, saying, "Some observers are wondering whether the Christian Right is just using the war [in Sudan] to attract publicity and money. 'They [evangelists] can smell the money coming.' [T]he evangelists might be eyeing Sudan's oilfields."

The Bush administration, in order to appease el-Bashir and Sudan into the Coalition Against Terrorism, recently killed the Sudan Peace Act, which passed the House, 422-2. It would've banned companies which invested in Sudanese oil production from U.S. capital markets. But now, Sudan is on top of the world.

This is the way Islam justifies murder and torture, and they're getting away with it. Are we next?

Thoughts?

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Guest $iLk

Burn...

I really don't want this to turn into a holy war but it just might be if things go sour...

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Quite a few people try to call the Koran (or Qu'ran, take your pick) a peaceable book of a peaceable religion.

No less than *20* times in that book are Muslims called on to KILL people who do not share the faith. The extremists aren't really extremists, they're just people who take the book verbatim. All others are simply realists.

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Two discordant views of Islam are being propagated; the "Islam 101 of the 'feel-good' Opray crowd, and the sinister Islam as portrayed in D. Schlussel's commentary from WorldNetDaily quoted here by Silk:null

No religion, including Islam, is monolithic. It has been estimated, however, that approximately 100 million followers of Islam subscribe to the Al-Qaida vision for the world: the Islam portrayed by Schlussel, and the one who holds Bin Laden as a Savior of the Arab people.

The goal is to render the 100 million Islamic fanatics harmless out of the roughly 1.2 billion Islamic individuals, including the 3-7 million living in the U.S. A more complex problem couldn't have been dreamed up in the wildest fiction novel by Tom Clancy.

One question I would pose to those who claim that Debbie Schlussel and others like her are right-wing alarmist and anti-Arab propagandists: Where is the condemnation fron the Islamic clergy? Islam has a form of 'ex-communication' from the Islamic faith that can be sentenced to those who break religious law in the false cause of Allah. Why does not the clerical hierarchy in Saudi Arabia denounce and ex-communicate' Osama Bin Laden, and the branch of radical Islam which teaches murder? This would at least have the potential to nullify some of the religious fervor and "Ascend straight into Paradise, do not pass Go" cards that the religious fanatics feel they earn by being killed or dying while mudering the non-believers in their Jihad.

What will it take to wake up in the U.S. and at least begin to see the potential enemy we may be facing, and no longer simply hope it will go away if we go back to our televisions and worrying about SUV gas mileage, and second-hand cigarette smoke?

I'm afraid Mr. T was right: "I predict pain". The big, unanswered question is, for who?

Doc Hoover

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Whether we like it or not, this is going to turn into a holy war.

Bush is going to try and contain it, but when it comes to religion there is nothing logical about it. The emotion and drive of faith is going to destroy the coalition and it will turn into the major war that people are scared to death of.

Christianity was once like this and has matured and come into the modern world, Islam will NOT do this. They know what they want and they feel that they have a calling from god. It will either be thier destruction or ours. Unless Bush is REALLY REALLY good. This is what I am hoping for, but I don't put great faith in that prospect.

We may be seeing the opening salvo of WWIII, and if we are, I pray that it will not destroy a majority of the human race. Because we have the technology to really do some damage, NBC weapons are not very forgiving, and the fundamentalists are not afraid to use such weapons, to kill infidels is not a sin, and will be rewarded.

How do you fight that? You destroy the believers, or they will destroy you.

Sad, very sad, and frightening.

Well, the guns are cleaned and the ammo's counted, whatever good that will do against a biological weapon. But it makes me feel better!!

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Guest $iLk

I believe in Israel's policy of taking everyone they consider an enemy down with them.

If any nation launches a nuclear missile against Israel, Israel will target that country, along with any other country that supports that country, and any country that does not support Israel.

If Ends justified Means I would say just declare our own jihad and cleanse Asia and Africa of Muslims. We would be alot better off in the end. However I do not have the stomach for a holocaust, and fear that it may become necessary to carry out even a limited one.

I would rather both sides leave each other in peace, where peace is determined not only against your enemies, but also for your citizens. Afganistan is living like they lived 300 years ago almost, if not worse. They brutalize women and children.

I believe they need to join the modern world and establish a government for the people, not for the leaders.

It remains to be seen. If When a Nuclear, Biological, or Chemical weapon is unleashed in a US city I say bomb them all flat.

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Thanks Mike!

I see I got demoted from Commander to Ensign while away.

keep up the good fight.

Doc

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After reading your post $ilk I'm glad that I am a Rastafarian. Excuse me while I light my ...

Let me be serious for a minute.

In my view organized religion has no place in the 21st century. It was needed back then when we were still primitives and needed to be controled like sheep. Hence the leaders and warlords used religion as a device of control. Nowadays almost all of us can think for ourselves. The rest, well, they're all bundled up with Al-Qeeda, the IRA and them Branch Davidian freaks.

Ask yourselves this, is it not in a Christian's god power to stop those two planes from crashing into the WTC? Is it not in Saddam's deity's power to stop all the suffering in his country? Gasp...what a coincidence a jewish, christian, moslem god happens to be the same person. If there was a god I think HE gave up on humanity centuries ago when we discovered Science. I think HE wants us all to move on and live as one, not as a partisan race. The minute I see the words 'Holy War' in this millenium, I just want to puke. Can't we all see that we should've evolved right now?

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Guest $iLk

quote:

In my view organized religion has no place in the 21st century. It was needed back then when we were still primitives and needed to be controled like sheep. Hence the leaders and warlords used religion as a device of control.

So you are suggesting that they move on to another device of control like our government has? Our government uses Political Correctness and the Legal System to twist meaning into something else.

quote:

Ask yourselves this, is it not in a Christian's god power to stop those two planes from crashing into the WTC?

I heard some ass giving that argument the other day. My point is simply that if God acknowledged his existence to mankind, what would happen to faith?

It's natural after a tragedy for people to blame God and wonder why he allowed it to happen. God perhaps has his reasons for allowing things to happen, first and foremost one of the good things that came out of this tragedy was the awakening of the moral spirit of America.

We were following a degenerate path towards chaos and now it seems that has all been turned around and people realize that there are more important things to worry about than sueing someone over some form of imagined discrimination or taking away someone's right to self-defense.

Perhaps God's reasoning behind allowing it to happen was to show us the compassion that came from the american people as a whole after the tragedy?

You can look at this from other angles religiously besides : People died.

Just pointing that out.

And as for Islam, it's nothing but a religion for militants. Those idiots practicing in the USA such as Farrakan or whatever need to be jailed for sedition.

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As I said before. The three main religion comes (allegedly) from the same source. Islam is no more a militant religion than Christians or Jews. You guys have Farakhan, we have the IRA.

Take it from me, I've been both and I've seen from both sides of the coin ( Islam and Christians), and guess what? I'd rather be a Rasta. At least all I have to do is .....

Or I could be a Jedi now. It is sorta official in the U.K. as more than 10,000 people named it as their religion in the census. Besides it makes more sense to me now than Catholics and moslems.

The point is I gave up on religion years ago. Yes I believe there was a Creator, but no I don't think he is represented by any mainstream religion. It has all been corrupted by man. What was once pure has turned into, well look at the world now. I guess I've lost my faith......

especially in humanity.....

[ 10-24-2001: Message edited by: Fendi ]

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Guest $iLk

Every religion does have it's dark side. The Jews have several passages in their holy books which are questionable, while Christians have had to deal with the Klan.

Nevertheless Islam is focused on killing those who do not share your faith.

It says it at least 20 times in the Koran as it says in the article up top.

I don't believe much in organized religion either, I have my faith and I think it's better represented to me by what the bible says and not what some guy in a suit says the bible says.

I think the whole point is that we learn from God and not from those who claim to be sent by God to teach us. I listen to ministers, and respect what many have to say, but the purpose isn't to be spoon-fed, it's to go home and read what the minister went over and draw your own conclusions.

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quote:


Originally posted by thanatos:

Thanks Mike!

I see I got demoted from Commander to Ensign while away.

keep up the good fight.

Doc


You were a victim of the purge. Check in more often!

quote:


In my view organized religion has no place in the 21st century. It was needed back then when we were still primitives and needed to be controled like sheep. Hence the leaders and warlords used religion as a device of control. Nowadays almost all of us can think for ourselves. The rest, well, they're all bundled up with Al-Qeeda, the IRA and them Branch Davidian freaks.

Not quite. You're talking about government controlled religion. The people can and DO think for themselves, and many of us choose a faith to follow.

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Bah!

I say petition the Pope to bless a Holy Crusade

I find the source of this article as questionable.

TTFN

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Fendi and Thanatos, you all need to throw your 2 cents worth into the spearation of church and state thread. It has turned into a debate about evolution. Would be interested in your views!!

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I'm back for a little while to respond to some stuff here.

quote:

Every religion does have it's dark side. The Jews have several passages in their holy books which are questionable, while Christians have had to deal with the Klan.

Nevertheless Islam is focused on killing those who do not share your faith.

It says it at least 20 times in the Koran as it says in the article up top.

$iLk, I suggest you count the number of times that the Holy Bible mentions the horrific deaths of people who didn't follow the faith. Start with the entire book of Exodus, where a god (once described by a fellow student as a 'homicidal maniac') arranged for the death of every first born in Egypt for no reason other than the mere stubborness of a Pharaoh.

quote:

I think the whole point is that we learn from God and not from those who claim to be sent by God to teach us.

It's impossible to learn from a god by reading religious documents like the Holy Bible because they weren't written by gods; they were written by people who claimed to know God's words.

quote:

I listen to ministers, and respect what many have to say, but the purpose isn't to be spoon-fed, it's to go home and read what the minister went over and draw your own conclusions.

I believe that's how Christianity, Judaism, and Islam became organized religions that worship the same god. A wide variety of conclusions. It's a pity that nobody can look up God in the Yellow Pages and ask if any of the conclusions are correct. I guess we'll just have to draw our own conclusions about the conclusions we drew based on the conclusions of the writers of "God's words".

Gotta go now. May the Force be with you.

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Guest $iLk

Menchise, the Koran emphasizes that the people who follow it's faith kill people who don't.

The Bible lists accounts of God carrying out his wrath on Egypt for refusing to release the children of Israel whom they had enslaved. There is a difference.

Either way it's beside the point, the Koran urges murder. The Bible does not. That you even brought it up shows ignorance of that fact. Just because death happens in the bible - holy hell it does in real life to doesn't it?

So before you start bashing the Bible and likening it to being worse than the Koran, why not learn what the hell you are talking about first - no offense.

Not trying to bash you, but making blanket statements like that which have no base is wrong.

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quote:

the Koran emphasizes that the people who follow it's faith kill people who don't

Um not true at all (remember I was one and both once upon a time). It actually FORBIDS the killing of others that does not practice the faith. And if you get the real translation you'll be surprised to find that a lot of the 'material' found in it were excerpts from the Old Testemant (not the revised one) and Tora'.

Besides I couldn't care less if there's a holy war. If version 2.0 (Christians) wants to eliminate Version 3.0 (Moslems) with the help of Version 1.0 (Take a guess) I don't care. They are all basically the same religion and comes from the same source and the sooner they wipe each other out the happier the world will be.

No more religion = no more terrorism and state control

This is what concerns me more:

We all should realize that in a few days time something nice will happen in England and I can be a true Rastafari.

Hint.....No need to go to Amsterdam anymore.

quote:

Would be interested in your views

Nah not yet too many pages and I don't have enough time at the moment. Wait till the weekend.

[ 10-26-2001: Message edited by: Fendi ]

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Guest $iLk

Doesn't Rastafarinism or whatever believe that blacks are superior to whites?

That's kind of racist.

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Guest $iLk

Alright in the book : The New Millennium Manual : A once and future guide

"Rastafarians believe that God is black, the white God is one of hate, blood oppression and war, while the black God is one of peace and love, they believe their god will bring Africans back to the homeland (Zion) and white people will be their slaves. They consider white people to be Babylon, which will be destroyed. They believe that king Haileselassie (the former king of Ethiopia) is god. They are not allowed to eat pork, or drink anything made from grapes. It is a protest against Capitalism."

Interesting religion. And like I said, it sounds racist.

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Muslims do believe that they worship the same God as Christians and Jews, and from everyting ive heard and read their religion says to be tolerant of other beliefs.

[ 10-26-2001: Message edited by: TRD ]

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Guest $iLk

I'm not exactly sure. I hear that from some Muslims, and from others I hear that our God is evil and theirs is the true God.

Probably has to do with the fad going around that it doesn't matter what religion you are in it's all the same. Globalist religion - Enigma.

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