Jump to content

Any Spider-man fans here?

Guest $iLk

Recommended Posts

Yep I used to read comic books, didn't seem all that long ago until I read the dates on my last purchased comic books (1993-94, sheesh), recently I've been completing my collection after watching the new teaser for the Spiderman movie coming out this May, and I'm picking up some old comics that tie in with some of the story lines I used to read.

I've noticed that this is some of the worst story writing I've ever seen and gives me hope that I too can be successful if I ever chose to be a writer, so long as I write about a popular children's icon it doesn't matter how well I write or how unoriginal it is.

Anyway the purpose of this post is to see if anyone else here used to like Spidey, and why (if you did) did you choose to stop reading.

Anyone who was familiar with comics back when I was (1993-94) will realize that nothing interesting has happened with Spidey since then. That's when I stopped reading, and if you were reading at that period you know why. Marvel butchered the hell out of the Spider Man comics with crazy ideas and crap writers. And basically by believing that they could shove whatever they wanted down our throats and we'd have to keep buying and accept it. I stopped reading, and here lately I've done some searches, and found NUMEROUS websites of people who quit reading around the same time, and for basically the same reasons I did. I didn't know it was that widespread, but I did some up-to-date research on current spiderman themes, and I've about tore out my hair (what little I have) realizing the latest stories and plots (or should I say plot-holes) they've come up with.

Anyway, Marvel decided to 're-boot' the Amazing Spiderman line of comics after botching it not long after ASM #400. (I'm venting so bear with me) I didn't mind the death of Peter Parker's Aunt May, because she'd been in the comics for like 30 years anyway, and had like 400 heart attacks/strokes/ whatever like every other comic.

This also took place during the infamous "CLONE SAGA" (Do a web search and see all the people who hate it, although I for one liked it - go figure) Anyway, to make a long story short, in Amazing Spiderman #149, Spiderman is cloned, neither knows who is the real deal, they fight, one 'supposedly' dies with the survivor not knowing which he is. Spidey's fan-base grows over the next 20 years, and they decide to revisit this story by bringing back the clone.

I appreciated the clone's dilemna, and came to sympathize with his position, while at the same time, Spiderman is acting like a raving lunatic without any grip whatsoever on reality. So this 'saga' lasts for like 2 years, and Marvel reveals that the Spiderman that people grew up with for 30 years was a CLONE and the newcomer we thought was the clone turns out to be the real PETER PARKER. Enter the fan-boys, who ***** and moan and complain and finally in PETER PARKER:SPIDER MAN Marvel reverses their decision and kill off Ben Reilly (a.k.a. the 'clone' of peter) and make him the clone afterall.

They neglect to realize that there are fan-boys who sympathized with Ben Reilly and basically after having trashed the whole Spidey-verse they alienate both camps, because many who wanted Peter to be the real one, also didn't want Ben to die.

Anyway, I stopped reading not long afterwards, because Marvel had reversed themselves too many times, and had overdone the CLONE thing. There were like 500 clones made and it seemed so easy to make them, so Marvel did, and used clones to explain away every single thing that didn't match up.

EXAMPLE So-and-so was in two places at once -

RL Explanation - Marvel's writers screwed up

Marvels Explanation - IT WAS A CLONE!

Anyway they overdid it so I quit reading. Recently I decided to do some research and see what they had done and if they had somehow redeemed themselves.

Okay they've 'resurrected' Aunt May and said that (GUESS WHAT) the one who died back in 1993 in ASM#400 was a clone or some nonsense and that the real one was kidnapped and cryogenically frozen (although they never get around to explaining why...)

Point is they wanted her back for some reason, and trashed the whole emotional story of ASM#400 for some new purpose.

They are trying to pretend like what they wrote before never happened. They've also ressurected Doc Ock, and some other baddies that were killed off in issues past.

They also kill off spidermans wife, and like 3 days later hook him up with a 'sexy' girlfriend. No time for mourning or anything.

I've read some theories, and the theory is that married men with responsibility don't sell well to teenagers, so they are trying to explain a way to revert back to the Aunt May yelling "that cursed Spiderman" while Spiderman hits the town and scores with chicks and acts "hip". Any of the emotional characters that get in Marvels way are snuffed out, and anyone they want back is resurrected after saying "Oh IT WAS A CLONE THAT DIED"

So somewhat that is my rant about why marvel screwed up the whole concept. I'm looking forward to the movie though... anyone else want to rant?

Link to comment
Share on other sites


Thanks for the update. I stopped collecting Spidey comics after the long crossover between Venom & Carnage and Spidey.

To tell you the truth I only collected them because the artist before the crossover was very good (can't remember the name) after that it all went downhill.

The same with x-men group of comics the best artist around is still Jim Lee!!!

[ 01-11-2002: Message edited by: Cmdr Jeffery Eu ]

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think spideyfan.org or something like that will fill you in on what you've missed, but it's damn ridiculous how they went and wrote themselves into a corner.

It would be so much better if they said "look we screwed up, so we're going to make the last 3 or 4 years into a bad dream spidey was having" and they could get back to writing stories that make sense.

They had like 1 or 2 good stories since I quit reading, but damn at how bad they screwed up the whole thing. I've only bought one of the new issues, and that was the Sept 11, 2001 special.

Anyway, deaths are meaningless in the Spiderman universe because they always explain it away as a clone, or genetic construct, etc.

They kill someone because it makes sense for them to die, but then say it wasn't them (even if it was someone who no one would have any value in cloning- ala Aunt May).

Anyway, I have a copy of the 2nd trailer (the long one) as well as the WTC trailer if anybody wants me to upload it to them.

The movie will be the only redeeming thing with me (even though they've taken short cuts and changed the whole way spiderman is, and change the entire storyline - but they did the same with the batman movie and it was good)

Anywho, here's hoping.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I stopped buying Spiderman comics right after the clone bit and right before Mary Jane had their baby. I have a good collection of Spiderman comics. I am also a Venom fan. I have books from the time Spiderman got the black costume to the clone bit. If it had any mention of Venom in it, I bought it. As the way of X-men. I have a original X-men #4. Silk: the Altar you are using, I have a puzzle with that picture. Made it into a clock.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Yeah I used to have a coloring book that had that picture on the front (Spiderman over the black costume)

I've got a pretty big collection, just went through alot of them last night.

I've got Amazing Spiderman 252 sitting right here where spiderman had his black costume after the whole secret wars thing. It's the first appearance in his comics that shows it.

The first "collection" I did with comics was the MAXIMUM CARNAGE line that ran 14 issues. I then attempted to collect the entire clone saga (got most of them, but there are many) I also have the Amazing Spiderman 149 where the clone first appeared.

I liked the whole Scarlet Spider/Spider Man thing, but I would rather Ben have stayed the clone, or for them to resolve it by saying "it doesn't matter which of us is the real deal, let's both do some good". I did like the way they wrote Ben's character in the clone saga better than Peter's (You know what I'm talking about - THE SPIDER)

Where he went nuts or whatever. Anyway if you'd like to turn this into a story line discussion, or a rant, etc. feel free. I used to like Carnage (no I'm not psycho) I just though he looked cool, and the whole Carnage/Venom battles were just cool. I've got the first comic carnage appeared in, and the comic where Peter got rid of the black costume (the first time) where he wore the "BAG MAN" costume (the FF costume with a kick me sign on his back and paper bag on his head)

I've got a whole bunch of his comics as it was my favorite, Xmen were okay, but I liked the whole paralleling Peter Parker's life with your average person's life.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

In fact this whole thing reminds me of the comics that I used to draw/narrate. I'll have to scan some of them and post them somewhere.

I used to do parodies of movies/tv shows/ etc.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I used to collect comics and have always liked Spiderman, but that was years ago. When I stopped, McFarlane had only recently left Spidey comics to create Spawn comics. I still think he had the best Spidey action art in the series, although he was never very good at drawing people's faces.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Like I said, I have both previews available if anyone wants me to upload them to you.

Mrxknown, how could you possibly remain a fan after the horrid way they screwed up the storyline, continuity, etc.?

I like Spidey, but every since the end of the clone saga, I have chosen not to read the crap comics they are putting out.

I could understand continuing reading, but all these resurrections that are taking place make death MEANINGLESS in the spider-man comics.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest Hellbinder[CE]

Bottom line

Go get Quicktime and Download the new Spider-Man movie trailer. this movie is gonna ROCK and ROCK hard.

It opens the summer movie scene on My 3rd, followed 3 weeks later by Attack of the clones, followed a few weeks later by MIB 2.

Spidey RULES BABY!!!

Oh, My Favorite Charachter is the HULK. Get this. Hulk comes out next summer. It stars Eric Banna, Nick Noltie, Jennifer Conolley, and Sam elliot.

check this out. Its being Directed by Ang Lee, as in Croutching Tiger Hidden Dragon and Sense and Sensability.


Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'm a fan, $ilk. And I agree with everything you said (well, except for sympathizing with ben reilly, wasn't even worth it in my opinion). I have read the script for the movie (including the recent drafts) and it looks pretty damn good.

Nice synopsis, BTW. I stopped being religious about collecting and keeping up with the titles right around ASM 300 and pptssm 120 or so.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hey Spider-man, well in case you weren't reading right before the beginning of the clone-era, Marvel started depicting Spider-man as going through some sort of mid-life/identity crisis. He starts calling himself "THE SPIDER" and mercilessly beats the $hit out of everyone and has no depth of character or anything. They drag this on for awhile, and by the beginning of the clone saga you have on one side DERANGED PETER PARKER and on the other side you have CALM COLLECTED BEN REILLY.

The purpose may have been to generate sympathy for the clone, but either way they started ruining the concept right there.

The clone saga's first half was actually pretty good, up until trial of peter parker part 4, where Spiderman beats his wife because he finds out he's the clone.

MARVEL MEANT FOR SPIDERMAN to end up being the clone, because he had gotten old, and they wanted to appeal to the younger generation.

So anyway, fanboys complain, they reverse their mistake by killing off Ben with like a 2 page explanation by Harry Osborn that Peter was the real one, the how's don't matter, etc.

Ben degenerates even though other less-perfected clones didn't. This I assume was to show that Ben was really a clone.

If Green Goblin really wanted to screw with Peter he could have killed him, letting him believe he was the clone.

Anyway, by killing off Ben, not just that but by reversing therselves (making the previous 2 years of comic storytelling worthless) they basically cram this down the readers throat without a bit of explanation. They say that "oh it was meant to turn out this way" I've got quotes from Marvel authors and writers who wanted Ben to be the real one because they had run out of fresh ideas. Fanboys screwed it up for them, so they kill off a character they had spent years generating understanding and sympathy for.

That would be forgiveable, if they had given a better explanation.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I have the Secret Wars and Secret Wars 2. The first one is the best. I also have the one with F4 and the one he got rid of it a second time. As I said before. If it had venom, I bought it. I have all the Spiderman Comics that Todd McFarlane did. Loved the Art. I liked Carnage when he first appeared. After a while he got plan compared to what he was. I have a huge collection of comics. 90% of the new ones I bought at the time I paid under cover price. I talking about 15% to 30% off cover. I could sell my collection right now at cover price and make a good profit. Of course getting me to sell them would be real hard.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

ah, thanks again for the summary, $ilk. I forgot about that "the spider" business.

makes the last 10 yrs or so kinda worthless. Glad I didn't miss anything, but I was always content just fighting villains. My character doesn't have to "evolve" all the time. the writers should have been more patient. Perhaps the titles' profits wouldn't let them be. Ah well. Is MJ still dead or is she miraculously alive? I thought things got good after the marriage, i guess the writers didn't agree...

Link to comment
Share on other sites


Shall I tell them??

Hmmm... My spidersense is telling me there is something out there.

It should probably be reported to techsupport. Likely to be a bug of some sort. It's reproduceable. Ohh wait, a spider is not really a bug, right? Having 8 legs. I don't see it causing gameplay issues in MP. It's just not natural. I've known it for some time now. (see the version number) But I didn't wanna disclose yet. (though some of you know) Something told me this thread was comming. It's just too appropriate for this now.


Stand in front of an overhanging wall (like the lighter grey wall in the picture, but a shuttle(mk1)'s front works also), some meters away; crawl and keep going (W) towards the shuttle/wall and eventually you should go up and keep sticking to it. Until you try to cross a convex edge, and then you fall.

Or might it be a feature? As it keeps you from getting wet by the rain. (almost same position as 2nd shot, FP view)

P.S. Sorry for the (1st) pic corruption. Must have happend during upload. But it get's the point across.

p.s. #2 : If Geocities doesn't allow the pic to be viewed automatically, click the location url and press enter.

[ 01-16-2002: Message edited by: Rico Jansen ]

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Ummm, I've been reading for awhile (does .15 cent comics ring a bell?), but I dont have any of the old ones anymore.

I stopped reading spidey bout the time you refer to Silk. Writing sucked, I'd miss a couple of issues (I was stationed overseas) and lose track of the whole story line. Who could keep track with THE AMAZING SIDERMAN, THE SPECTACULAR SPIDER MAN, PETER PARKER SPIDERMAN, and whatever other titles they decided to come up with. Then releasing them every 2 weeks (for awhile there) and more and more of the comic becoming advertisement!?!

I couldnt afford it between the Umpteen X Titles, Hulk, 3-5 Spider Titles, Avengers, and dont mention indies..I was plopin nearly 120bucks a month in comics. Way Too Much!!

Hey when do you think they will bring back Spider Mans Baby?? It was taken away in Issue #?? when it was born and they were left to think the child had died.

Here is a question??


When are they going to bring back Ilyana. She died yes, but Here counterpart from Age Of Apocolypse escaped through the portal with Dark Beast, Cable (his younger counter part called Mutant X), and Apocolypses son in the Fiery armor.

There are so many inconsistancies it is ridiculous, and I'm to lazy to mention any more. But that is pretty much why I stopped reading. Too expensive, Poor Writing/Art, and Far too inconsistent!!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Please sign in to comment

You will be able to leave a comment after signing in

Sign In Now

  • Create New...