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Attack on Israel?


Soback
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Do you think Israel will be attacked on the 6th?

(I am not going to list the reasons as to why in this thread, because if you have no knowledge in this complex matter then you have no business posting your ammateur opinions.)

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quote:

Originally posted by Soback:

Do you think Israel will be attacked on the 6th?

(I am not going to list the reasons as to why in this thread, because if you have no knowledge in this complex matter then you have no business posting your ammateur opinions.)

Won't happen. The defender almost always gets sympathy from other countries.

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They would be stupid to try it, Israel has the 5th largest military in the world, and some say the most modern, even above and beyond the US.

If the Arab countries would like their heads handed to them, let then try, it won't take 6 days this time, it will take far less. And if somehow Israel actually starts to lose, the whole middle east will glow in the dark.

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quote:

Rubbish


quote:

and some say the most modern

That's why I put in the qualifier. I don't think they do either, except on some of their aircraft, and only because they have modified and modernized their f-16's to a point where they are almost unrecognizable as originally US made planes.

But I do believe that if the Arabs do try something as stupid as attacking Israel directly, they will get their heads handed to them.

That's why they pay the palestinians for their terrorist activities and suicide bombers. Because it is the death of a thousand cuts and they cannot be held directly responsible.

No, the Arabs will never attack Israel directly again, they are not even that stupid.

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While Israel may not have supertoys like the US has Derek, almost all of their military hardware is more modern than that of the US. Just look at what most of the F-16 squadrons in the gulf war had to attack ground targets with.. dumb bombs! Not from choice, but because almost all of those jets didnt have updated avionics to let them use laser guided weapons. (I think only 1 squadron of F-16s there had those modifications).

The A-10's in the gulf lacked night vision..some Warthog pilots got wise and used their IR maverick warhead seekers in order to see in the dark. In contrast, the Israeli fighters have all those avionics in them, and any new improvement is almost immediately applied to the entire air force.

The israeli ground forces are by far, more experienced and better trained than the common US grunt, albeit the Israeli cant provide the overwhelming support the US can provide their grunts.

An Attack on Israel? Heck, I think Pakistan and India have a better chance of exporting glowing glass than an arab neighbor hitting israel. Jordan, Egypt and Syria know Israel has the support of the major powers...and they know Israel on her own can hand them their asses in silver platters. AND they know Israel will nuke them to hell if they ever overrun Israel.

So now you see why Arafat is SO incredibly important to the arab nations. Its THE perfect weapon to use against Israel.. no ties, draws sympathy for their "cause", creates international distrust, etc etc. A true Trojan Horse with cherries on top.

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I read that the Israeli air force has some of the best pilots in the world.

I made a little search and found some interesting articles.

Article 1

Article 2 (a little old)

From the second article I like this quote :

quote:

The Israelis also possess a huge arsenal of nuclear, chemical, andbiological weapons. Indeed, the military strength of the little State of Israel is estimated to be about eight times that of all the Arab armies combined!

[ 06-05-2002, 20:47: Message edited by: Epsilon 5 ]

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Guest Grayfox

the IAF consists of modified US F-16's,& F-15's (do they still use the f-4?) they did develop the KFIR, which i think is a bad lil mirage upgrade... i dont think the arab countries have the groolies to attack the israelis.

however one statement ive always believed... "dont f^&* with the israelis" their army may be small (5th largest??? iraq had a bigger one)but they do have the heart, and ferocity to take over the whole of the middle east if they wanted to.

and Jags right... it wouldnt take 6 days this time, it would take less.

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Yes grey, the F4 Phantom is actually their workhorse ground attack plane. The F15 is air superiority and F16 has the multi-role between the F15 and F4. Neat setup too.

"I read that the Israeli air force has some of the best pilots in the world."

I'd say their pilots have the most flight time and most intense training AND motivation of the world. When they fly against the starvin' marvins in 50 year old MIGS from the arab nations..well, the result is not hard to figure out.

The K-fir is an excellent plane too. Unlike the Mirage, the K-fir is extremely reliable and upgradable. Remember, nowadays speed and manouverability come second, detection and avionics come first.

The F-15 is less manouverable than the F-16.. but an F-15 will kill an F-16 in BVR. And the F14 I think has twice the detection/missile fire range of the F15

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Okay you want the deal... here it is from your relative military expert

Israel's army is us trained and supplied BUT IS STILL NOT MORE MODERN THAN THE US ARMY

i'm not going into details about this...like SC said any other idea is rubbish

they do have the best airforce equal or better than the us

the reason why is because they fly COMBAT missions observing hostiles EVERYDAY

they USE THE Same fighters the US does , don't even waste yoru time trying to compare their modifications betwn ours we will be here for the next 8 yrs

TAC I JUST READ YOUR POST TIME FOR JJ TO LAY THE SMACKDOWN :-)

The Training the US gives it's common inf grunt is the best in the world, Israeli troops are only good in urban fighting, trust me throw down a us sqaud versus an israeli squad in the desert woodlands, islands or hell even in an URBAN environment the US squad will be victorious, without support, i cannot emphasize this enough.

THe us dropped dumb bombs in iraq AS WELL AS LASER GUIDED BOMBS because the Airforce wanted to clear out some of it's 60's and 70's inventory. Some of the bombs they knew would be unnecessary in future so Schwarzkopf capitalized on this chance to clear it out. There are some outstanding books on Desert Storm, my favorite being "the General's"

also watch the documentaries on tv

and also remember who teaches israel how to fly and and fight on the ground and gives them the weapons to do it... WE DO

The only mistake the Us made and the Isareli's beat out the US on was the BRADELY IFV, AN ENTIRE NEW TOPIC entirely

[ 06-05-2002, 23:13: Message edited by: JJ ]

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Come on guys, the discussion is not on who is stronger or bigger, it's on whether you think Israel will be attacked on the 6th or not. You do know that right now the arabs have missles lined up all along the border between Israel and arab countries and that Bush called the arab leaders today and warned them that Israel will retaliate with nukes if an attack happens on the 6th.

[ 06-05-2002, 23:18: Message edited by: Soback ]

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JJ, I would sincerely doubt the competence of ANY military commander that sends his pilots into hot zones with such armaments because "we need to clear the warehouse of old stuff". Fact still remains only 1 F16 squadron had the gear to drop "smart" bombs, and they had to do with what they had. I believe there was a rush to upgrade the remaining F16 (and A-10s) after the Gulf War.

The Israeli Air Force is significantly smaller than the US, which allows (and I think forces them) to keep each plane in top notch shape and upgrades. Overall, IDF warplanes are more "modern" in that respect.

"The Training the US gives it's common inf grunt is the best in the world, Israeli troops are only good in urban fighting, trust me throw down a us sqaud versus an israeli squad in the desert woodlands, islands or hell even in an URBAN environment the US squad will be victorious, without support, i cannot emphasize this enough."

Let me see.. both countries have "well trained" troops, similarly armed... but one of them, the Israeli, has the most combat experience.. and you telling me the US will beat them without support/fighting on equal terms? Well trained greenhorns vs well trained veterans... those are odds I wouldnt bet on.

[ 06-06-2002, 00:09: Message edited by: Tac ]

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quote:


Originally posted by Tac:

JJ, I would sincerely doubt the competence of ANY military commander that sends his pilots into hot zones with such armaments because "we need to clear the warehouse of old stuff". Fact still remains only 1 F16 squadron had the gear to drop "smart" bombs, and they had to do with what they had. I believe there was a rush to upgrade the remaining F16 (and A-10s) after the Gulf War.


Believe it or not, thats what happened and JJ is right. The Pentagon figured that Iraq would be a pushover (it was, heh) and so the ends, to them, justified the means.

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In reply to the title of the thread, the answer looks like 'No'.

And another thing, how can an opinion be 'amateur'. An opinion is an opinion, whether you get paid for it or not. Maybe you mean misinformed, or maybe any opinion which is contrary to your own you deem as 'amateur'.

[ 06-06-2002, 12:34: Message edited by: Paddy Gregory ]

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An amateur opinion is an opinion of someone who obviously has no knowledge on the matter but will start spewing out all kinds of noncence based on all kinds of made up things. That's exactly why I didn't post any reasons as to why Israel might be attacked on the 6th, because someone who is informed and knows the history will know exactly what I am talking about, but if I would post the reasons then anyone, even a ten year old can butt in and say something based just on the 1 paragraph explanation I might have given, not knowing the long history behind the whole thing, and that's why I said that amateur opinions are not wanted, but rather opinions from those people who are monitoring and are informed in the whole middle east situation.

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How about we just put the military superiority this way. If there was a US vs Israel conventional war, (or nuclear) Israel's armed forces would be crushed very, very, very quickly. Israel's troops may be elite, but 500 New American troops can take out 150-250 Israeli vets, and if you start getting involved in the aircraft, Israel doesn't have F-22s or the stealth bombers, and you cant shoot down what you can't see (F-22s are radar resistant too).

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quote:

Originally posted by Dredd:

How about we just put the military superiority this way. If there was a US vs Israel conventional war, (or nuclear) Israel's armed forces would be crushed very, very, very quickly. Israel's troops may be elite, but 500 New American troops can take out 150-250 Israeli vets, and if you start getting involved in the aircraft, Israel doesn't have F-22s or the stealth bombers, and you cant shoot down what you can't see (F-22s are radar resistant too).

But it's NOT USA vs Israël, so why do you people keep arguing on that??

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We are not arguing about the superiority of Israel VS the US, we are just saying that Israel is prety advanced. We would beat the heck out of them, but we won't. Israel is the ONLY democracy in the middle East, and besides the guilt involved, we would help rather then allow Israel to be destroyed or launch it's nukes. and launch it's nukes it would.

The 6 day war will NEVER be allowed to happen again, even if we have to go in there and kick the Arabs butts on Israels side.

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(warning: I'm not an expert)

I humbly submit that for any attack to happen there would be needed a major change in the the Middle East. Current leaders there know that it is very foolish to attack Israel directly. It is very ironic that the biggest barrier to those countries attacking is the very fact that they are not democratic.

one correction though: Iran is very democratic, the problem there is that the democratically elected government has little power.

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Thanks SC i didn't have time to come back at Tac yet

Now Tac in the beg of the war at first they were using laser guided weapons, and the Iraqi airforce was getting trashed after about 72 hours of fighting iraq grounded their airforce for the rst of the war. so the pentagon used older less expensive but still accurate dumb bombs.

tac okay so what if the battle hardened israeli squad fights a non battle hardened but extremly well trained better organized and better equipped us force, Us would still win

THE PRIMARY EXAMPLE OF THIS IS THE GULF WAR

The Iraqi National Guard the fourth largest military in the world at the time had just gottn out of a bloody war with iran and the pentagon was worried as all hell that our non combat experienced force would be devestated they estimated our casulties around 16,000 instead it was two hundred and fifty plus. THATS IT.

also rem the israeli army is mainly large urban policing actions

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I don't know if this is right but I've seen a documentary in which they said expected casualty estimates were around 30% due to the Iraquis using chemical weapons, not the difference in combat experience.

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I think any talk of a conventional engagement between Israel and neighbors is pointless.... as things stand now. The US supports Israel and that doesn't look like it's going to change.

Now if they launch any kind of NBC attack without US authorization it would be a whole new ball game. Hell even with authorization I don't think it would work out for them.....

The difference between being a power and a super power is force projection capacity on a global scale. Theater wise Israel is top dog no doubt. That's why their enemies keep strapping bombs on their "soldiers". As committed as the Israeli’s are to maintaining their position.... forces out there are just as, if not more, committed to changing that.

Maybe they want Israel to lash out with weapons of mass destruction...who knows. But it never looks right when tanks are shooting at people with rocks....

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