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Are you jumping ship? - The nVidia vs ATI debate (again)


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Guest Hellbinder[CE]

i guess if you are an Nvidia fanboy thats the way you look at it...

But it has *nothing* to do with reality.

The 8500 for instance.. still has more features than a GF4 even if its not as fast. Suports better pixel shaders and N-patches (HOS).. and has superior *looking* FSAA, and faster Aniso.

Yes the GF4 wins the speed crown if thats all you consider...

From The ATi perspective, Ati Reelases superior products *once* a year. If you want to call all the Nvidia ultra products... *better* then go ahead I guess..

Posts like yours simply prove how totally biased some people are. For instance lets take everyone out of the picture but Nvidia.. Are you buying an *inferior* product jsut becuase a newer faster version comes out 6-8 months later??? Hardly. Is the GF4 suddenly an *inferior* product just bacause the 9700 came out?? *NO* Nor is the 9700 and inferior product becuase *maybe* the Nv30 will be a little faster in 4 months when it comes out...

I dont think i've ever seen a more onesided group of people except at Nvnews...

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Well, you see, I loved 3dFX products because of all the features. Then I got a top of the line (for the time) Raedon card (i forget the number, it was some 128 MB card). Although it worked well for some games, it worked poorly with many others, and the driver issues were often a pain. Under XP, the Raedon started causing the monitor to go blank periodically, so I decided to get a top of the line Nvidia card (4600). It works great, just about every game developer makes sure their games work with Nvidia cards, and i'm betting that overall, the features of the new Nvidia card are going to blow Raedon's 9500 card out of the water.

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Well, lets put it this way.

The only rule:

- You buy whatever you want and do say whatever you want about it. Some of us may be frustrated with ATI, but that's it. You're not gonna die.

And the fact tha the 8500 has more features than a GF4 ti x doesn't mean that it is way better. I think that the two main things of any vcard are these:


-Driver quality

After these come the extras like AA, etc which strongly increase the quality of the vcard.

Now, to put it simple boys, take a GF4 4600 and take all of the juice off it and enable everything to make it look shiny, then do so with the new 9700 and see if the diference is much and last but not least look at the framerate, do this research and draw your own answers. After that, leaver the cards in default and check the framerates (do this with the 8500 and maybe with a gf3 500)and see what happens

Do research and dont talk about something you are not 100% confident.

I mean, come on, are people gonna fight because x vcard tops its rival by 1 or 2 fps

[ 09-04-2002, 08:57 PM: Message edited by: Cmdr_ Laracuente ]

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Guest Grayfox

maybe ill draw a map so hellbinder can understand.


Sure you are free to think what you like.. but dont expect to not be called out on the carpet for blantant unjustifird Bias.

ITS NOT BIAS. my choice not to like ati does not come from bias. it comes from actual hands on experience with the product. its all good that they have squared the driver issue away with the newer products. good for them. maybe i should have waited to buy an ati product until now when theyre putting out the good stuff. my reason is this i refuse to build a system to be compatible with a single piece of hardware.

i will buy a single piece of hardware to fit my system and coexist with it. thats it end of story. ati doesnt coexist with my system, so i just wont buy any of their products. im not using jack boots to keep other people from going with ati products either. if it works for them then fine. i wont look at you any differently just because of something as silly as a video card.

but when you go off spouting crap and calling me bias when there is absoloutely no reason to, then ill get upset. so heres a suggestion before you go off spouting at the mouth again. pull your head out of your 4th point of contact, and actually take the time to read and UNDERSTAND a post before you go off shooting form the hip.


i guess if you are an Nvidia fanboy thats the way you look at it...

*sigh* whats with the fanboy crap??? i was a diehard 3dfx user. theyre cards worked excellent with what i had. i then decided to try the rage 128 (would a fanboy try something new???) i had system compatability issues with it so i got rid of it and went back to voodoo with the 5500. i was happy as a clam until 3dfx went under so i had to look elsewhere. so i heard of the radeons and how high speed low drag they were supposed to be, so i got one. again system compatability issues. so i get rid of it and try nvidia. so far i am pleased. i have no compatability issues, and it runs just fine.

i might go and try the 9700 when it comes out, but thats doubtful seeing as how ati products usually have issues with my system.

again its not bias, and im definitely not a fanboy. so please for the love of pete, actually put some thought into what your going to say BEFORE you say it and wind up stepping in the dungpile.

[ 09-04-2002, 10:49 PM: Message edited by: Grayfox ]

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Guest Fox__Trot

Gre(a)y fox I still plan to kill you in MP

anyways if you read hellbinders secnario...


begin scinario]

*Brand X sux*


*because their hardware and drivers suck*

But what about this list of 100 awesome things

so your saying that brand X did release bad hardware and drivers who cares if it gives me everything and tons of features but if I cant use those features because my computer DOESNT like it or when it DOES work I get a whole 25 frames per second unless i DISABLE those features ... so then I doesnt matter...

My only deal with ATI is there BAD history there continualy bad and if Nvidia should someday fall behind in that regard sure I'll jump ship I dont feel any loyality to a video card company but ive NEVER had a good experince with an ATI card so why would I spend 350 or so dollars on an ATI card while my track record with NVIDIA is spotless? explain that to me and ill go buy a 9700

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  • 2 weeks later...

Grabbed this from the web



Just as ATI thought they had got one over nVidia by releasing their next generation chip earlier, the well documented ATI reliability seems to have struck again. The various issues which have plagued ATI in the past i.e. driver problems, have damaged the company's reputation and the latest glitch is not going to do much to change that.

According to ATI, owners of the RADEON 9700 Pro will not be able to run it at the, much hyped, 8x AGP. ATI claim that their engineers are working non-stop in order to correct the issue. But this is not the only problem reported by users, certain systems seem to experience severe driver issues under NTFS.

The complete report by ATI reads:

In certain cases, after installing the RADEON 9700 PRO 128MB in an AGP 8x capable motherboard, the system will not post, or boot up.

Not all AGP 8x motherboards are affected. Some Customer's have reported that lowering the AGP transfer speed in some instances, will allow the system to then post.

Incopatibility.... That's why i don't like ATI

[ 09-17-2002, 11:11 PM: Message edited by: Cmdr_ Laracuente ]

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The debate about ATI vs Geforce is pointless as far as I see it. It does not matter which one you have. It's all down to compatability. Some hardware works better with certain configurations than others. If your having problems with your video card, get in contact with the group and tell them your system specs and they should be able to tell you about any conflicts known with your setup. Some problems are related to drivers but most times a driver update sorts it out. Being a computer engineer I know this.

I will agree that NVidia cards are normally faster than ATI but with the speeds of computers nowdays, who cares about the smallest difference in speed. All cards are capable of more or less the same things. I personally buy cheeper to save money on each upgrade I make. I have an ATI 7000 64Mb DDR which works fine and at present have had no problems with any games ( Like , 'Unreal tournament, BCM ).

As I think SC says, do a little research before buying. If you have the money to buy the best, then buy it, but check first if it will be compatible with your system. This aplies to buying anything for your system.

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from the main page at Hardocp.com

"ATi Statement on AGP8X:

ATI is aware of a small number of reports of incompatibility between the RADEON 9700 PRO graphics accelerator and certain AGP 8X motherboards. It is important to emphasize that the number of incidents is very low. Extensive testing has been done, in conjunction with motherboard chipset manufacturers, motherboard manufacturers and with retail available motherboards, to determine if compatibility issues exists. From these tests, it has been concluded that no compatibility issues exist with the current or soon to be released AGP 8X motherboards.

Some end users have reported issues to our Customer Service department that we are investigating. From the data that has been gathered, it appears that issues that have been reported are caused by individual board issues and are not indicative of a general compatibility issue. RADEON 9700 PRO product owners are encouraged to contact our Customer Service Department should they have an operational problem with their product.

In addition, it is important to ensure that appropriate system preparation is done prior to installing the RADEON 9700 PRO. We recommend installing the latest motherboard BIOS in the system as well as the latest available AGP drivers. Many of the 8X issues have been resolved with an updated BIOS from the motherboard manufacturer.

From what we have seen here and from what other webmasters have shared with us it does seem to be the mainboard and PSU builders "fault" that certain compatibility issues exist. We are still trying to get a grasp on this ourselves."

As for thinking true AGP8X was going to come to market without any glitches to handle is certainly a pipe dream. If we all hang in there and make sure we report the problems we see back to ATi and the company that builds your particular mainboard, we will certainly get things worked out sooner. Remember, teamwork, as a community is key for smoothing out the AGP8X road. So let's all be part of the solution, and not part of the problem. Report your problems to the appropriate support department with full system, OS, and driver specs. "

It looks like the 8xAGP mobos may be at fault, or a combination of the two. At any rate if you are worried about compatibility problems it is best to wait a bit for everything to be sorted out.

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Originally posted by Cmdr_ Laracuente:

Grabbed tjis from the web

The next time you post ANYTHING on this site that you obtained from the web and you don't post a link to the source, it will be deleted.

Please edit your post and include the source of the excerpt you posted.

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Originally posted by Supreme Cmdr:

Anyway, this whole 8x thing is just related to early adopter glitches.

heh, am still trying to coax my 4x boards to spit out the promised 4x bandwidth promise almost six (?) years ago, let alone worry about getting an 8x board.

lol!!! Isn't that true. And this is just another prime example of weeding out the Mobo and PSU manufactures that cut corners and don't follow widely published, Industry Standard Specs.

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