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Bandus

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I got my September 2003 issue of Computer Gaming World last night and I was flipping through it when I bumped into the following article:

quote:

Kwangju, South Korea - October 9th, 2002 - In an Internet gaming club 150 miles southwest of Seoul, 24-year-old Kim Kyung-jae overdoses on an online RPG. After playing for 86 hours straight, the game-obsessed young man collapses in front of the store counter, recovers consciousness, and then dies moments later in the bathroom. Exhaustion is diagnosed as the cause of death.

Some of you may have read this article somewhere else, but this is the first time I've seen it. Besides the intial, WTF, you've gotta be kidding me factor, I started thinking about this more and more.

I also heard a story recently about a young adult who killed himself over losing a character to perma-death in some MMPORG.

I'd like to analyze this a little, not simply with replies saying, "That guys dumb, or he is obsessed." Thats obvious. I want to know if anyone could actually comprehend spending 86 hours on a computer. I want to know if anyone has ever been so obsessed with a game, that they got so attached to their characters, that they went through actual withdraws over losing it. I'm not trying to start a "Gamers Anonymous" thing or anything like that, I'm truly intrigued by this.

I'd like to pose a question directly to the SC as well. While this is probably one of those things that you gotta "cross when you get to that bridge," I want ot know what you would do? What would you do, SC, if one day you got a call saying some guy/girl had played BC for 86 hours straight and died of exhaustion and now his parents were sueing you. I mean, as ludicrious as it sounds, people are winning lawsuits that dumb these days. What could/would you do?

Anyhow, lets see where this discussion goes.

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quote:

Originally posted by Bandus:

I'd like to analyze this a little, not simply with replies saying, "That guys dumb, or he is obsessed." Thats obvious. I want to know if anyone could actually comprehend spending 86 hours on a computer. I want to know if anyone has ever been so obsessed with a game, that they got so attached to their characters, that they went through actual withdraws over losing it. I'm not trying to start a "Gamers Anonymous" thing or anything like that, I'm truly intrigued by this.

Actually Bandus, this is a fact of life. Obssession is a part of the human nature. The only person that can stop your own obssession is yourself.

I do admit that I have went through 36 hours straight of playing X-com UFO Defense way back when. I skipped my meals, my showers, my assignments in college, my classes and everything else. And no sleep!!

Finally it struck me that I could play the game anytime but life outside of the PC does not wait for one. With much, much regret I pushed my obssession aside to concentrate on a more balanced play time.

If it wasn't because of a sudden sliver of sanity I might have been in the the man in the article you read in 1993.

Discipline and self awareness is more important that anyone thinks.

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86 hours? that's like 4 or 5 days!

i can imagine that was Lineage since that game is pretty popular over there. but 86 hours straight?

wouldn't anyone come up to him and say something like "Man you have been playing too long. Go take a break." or something.

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86 hrs= 3.58 days. Sheesh, talk about stamina.

Well now games will have to include on their box labels "SEEK PSYCIATRIC ADVICE BEFORE PLAYING THIS GAME TO DETERMINE IF YOU HAVE AN ADDICTIVE OR ABNORMAL GAMING PERSONALITY. WE WILL NOT BE RESPONSIBLE FOR DEATHS CAUSED BY THE EXCESSIVE USE OR ABUSE OF THIS GAME" That should cover game companies from frivolous lawsuits. Just like you would seek a doctors advice before you enter into any exercise program or taking medication.

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Guest Grayfox

well i look at like this...

the herd is being thinned... the gene pool is being cleaned.

i mean cmon, its idiotic. if you dont have enough mental capacity to realize what your body is telling you, then you shouldnt be wasting air. 86 hours... for the love of god man theres more to life than some friggin computer game.

go out, get a job, or a woman, something!!!

the longest time ive ever spent on anything online on the PC was 6 hrs and that was during a counterstrike tourney. thankfully i have enough mental capacity when my body tells me :warning... shutdown imminent. cease all activities and retire to nearest bed immidiately

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I played from 8 am to 6am the day after (22 hours straight) the day I got my planetside beta cds, back in april. That's my all time record.

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quote:

Originally posted by Bandus:

I got my September 2003 issue of Computer Gaming World last night and I was flipping through it when I bumped into the following article:

snip

Some of you may have read this article somewhere else, but this is the first time I've seen it. Besides the intial, WTF, you've gotta be kidding me factor, I started thinking about this more and more.

I also heard a story recently about a young adult who killed himself over losing a character to perma-death in some MMPORG.

I'd like to analyze this a little, not simply with replies saying, "That guys dumb, or he is obsessed." That?s obvious. I want to know if anyone could actually comprehend spending 86 hours on a computer. I want to know if anyone has ever been so obsessed with a game, that they got so attached to their characters, that they went through actual withdraws over losing it. I'm not trying to start a "Gamers Anonymous" thing or anything like that, I'm truly intrigued by this.

I'd like to pose a question directly to the SC as well. While this is probably one of those things that you gotta "cross when you get to that bridge," I want ot know what you would do? What would you do, SC, if one day you got a call saying some guy/girl had played BC for 86 hours straight and died of exhaustion and now his parents were sueing you. I mean, as ludicrous as it sounds, people are winning lawsuits that dumb these days. What could/would you do?

Anyhow, lets see where this discussion goes.

That story has gone around, and my first reaction was that it is an urban legend. SNOPES has nothing on it though with a quick search, so...

Exhaustion is a strange cause of death. It may have been simplified for general consumption, but unless something VERY strange happens such as being on speed you will pass out long before you die. Though he was in a coffee shop, something more then caffeine would generally need to be in his system.

After the first 48-72 hours he would experience auditory and visual hallucinations as well as general disorientation, especially if he is relying on caffeine.

As for the culpability of the coffee shop, the article reports a very specific number for how long he has been up. 3.5 days. Since he is dead and other patrons have come and gone we can guess that either the reporter just made up the number or the coffee shop was aware that this guy that had been buying triple shot espressos while sitting at his computer and scaring off the other customers with his smell was probably in some kind of trouble.

I mean, considering how jittery and sweaty all that coffee would make him after the first 48 hours, he couldn't have been pleasant to be around and one would expect a coffee shop to kick him out or call the police to haul him out. We can certainly expect that regular customers who might have noticed him there might comment.

Something interesting may have happened but either I don't know enough about coffee shops or the culture in that part of the world or the important information was ignored for the sake of talking about video game addiction.

As far as video game addiction goes, I have played at LAN parties for 24 hours at a time, gone home and slept for a few before going back, but that was my limit. In general though someone else will need to talk about the addiction part. I can turn the computer off any time I want... really... any time...

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My all time record: 12 hours on NHL 2003.

As far as this addiction thing goes, if it wasn't a game it would be something else. Let's just start putting warning labels on cars too: "May get you where you're going quickly, and you may like that, so you may end up using your new car a lot."

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Oh, I'm be far no stranger to "gaming binges." I know, for example, when I got Final Fantasy 10 I played for 24 hours straight. Went to bed for 3 hours and then continued playing until I beat it. Then I returned to my regularly scheduled life. Furthermore, I'm playing KoTOR on XBOX right now and frankly I've been play that pretty heavily.

I mean, Fiver, granted your probably accurate in saying there were other factors that came in to play, the fact is he died from playing a computer game until his body literally SHUT DOWN. It takes a lot to get your body to shut down from running too long.

My question, I guess, was do you all think it should honestly be the gaming companies faults? I mean, while that would go along with the trend of placing blame on everyone but yourselves, how much further will it go before it crosses the line? I mean, I am starting to get a vivid picture in my head of actually showing my driver's liscense and signing a waiver before entering a video arcade, or buying a computer game. Why can't companies such as SOE and CCP start simply putting the warning in their EULA. You have to click ACCEPT everytime and that would seem like it would be enough to cover their arses.

SC, I'm still very eager to hear from you on this topic. I mean, I try to place myself in your shoes. I imagine getting a phone call at 2 AM on a stormy morning (dramatic prose? :grins:) and having my attorney telling me that some guy has played BC until he died. Now, my first reaction would be, "Why are you waking me up for this?" But in this modern world we know that people win lawsuits for crazy things. What would *you* do if you got this phone call, SC?

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The notion that there is a real connection to be made strikes me as very bad logic. Let me give a couple examples. I know that it is not likely anybody here thinks the game or game company is responsible, but I still gotta put a fine point on this.

1. Someone uses 'uppers' to study for a final exam, the person dies after studying for thirty hours. Therefore exams are bad.

2. A guy gets drunk at a bar, gets in his car and kills three people. Therefore bars are bad.

3. A kid plays Monopoly every waking hour for three days only to loose the game. He gets a gun and shoots the person he lost to. Therefor Monopoly is bad.

My other examples might be considered flamebait because they touch a bit on hotly debated social concernes.

One of the best definitions of addiction is continuing something when you don't want to or in the face of negative concequences. The actual object of addiction is practically and ironically irrelevant.

In point of fact I was on codine for (on my doctors orders) for several weeks and my body came to expect and use it. I had a hard time sleeping the first couple days off of it and thought it would be nice to have a little more. Not being a person who has to worry about addiction it cleared up and I only thought about it again as I was writing this post.

To be blunt when someone self destructs, that person is the problem and not anything else.

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I absoutlely agree on the point that when someone explodes/implodes it is their own fault. However, as can be clearly seen most people in this world are not able to or simply won't admit that is the truth. They want to place the blame for their actions elsewhere. They won't step up and say,

"Yes. My son was addicted to Everquest. He had a serious problem. I was too busy to give him the attention he need to avoid his problem."

How far are they going to make gaming companies go to protect themselves?

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Addictive personalities will always seek out some outlet to manifest itself in the people who suffer with them. I have been to a seminar on gaming addiction and frankly I feel it will be more widely accepted and treatment for it will be somewhat common. Since addiction treatment is my profession I can safely say the things people become addicted to do not cause the addiction.

There is a segment of the population that will always be vulnerable no matter what. Now having said that I once played Halo for 10 hrs straight.

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quote:

Originally posted by Bandus:

I absoutlely agree on the point that when someone explodes/implodes it is their own fault. However, as can be clearly seen most people in this world are not able to or simply won't admit that is the truth. They want to place the blame for their actions elsewhere. They won't step up and say,

"Yes. My son was addicted to Everquest. He had a serious problem. I was too busy to give him the attention he need to avoid his problem."


That is sad, sad truth. Especially since going through the pain of that kind of honesty can really make a big positive difference in life.

quote:

How far are they going to make gaming companies go to protect themselves?

I predict a few lawsuits, but have no idea how successfull they will be.

Fear says they will ruin the gaming industry... though to be honest it could use a shakeup, just not that kind of a shakeup.

Hope says the lawsuits will die in court and the gaming industry will redifine itself.

quote:

Addictive personalities will always seek out some outlet to manifest itself in the people who suffer with them. I have been to a seminar on gaming addiction and frankly I feel it will be more widely accepted and treatment for it will be somewhat common. Since addiction treatment is my profession I can safely say the things people become addicted to do not cause the addiction.

There is a segment of the population that will always be vulnerable no matter what. Now having said that I once played Halo for 10 hrs straight.

A chance to ask the expert .

Would the treatment for addiction basically be the same, regardless of what the person is addicted to? What I am suggesting is that the fundemental flaw/disorder that results in addiction is what would need to be addressed, and therefore I wonder why there would be a need to have a treatment specifically for video game addiction.

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Well Fiver to answer your question,since each object of addiction is different, the approach has to be tweaked to fit it. But more or less, the approach would still follow a Cognitive-Behavioral treatment modality(at least if I was doing it)since it deals with challenging the thoughts that drive the addiction and then attacking the behavior. Since a lot of addiction counseling is group based, a "gamers only" approach is needed since we dont want them in with alcoholics and cocaine addicts, as they have little in common with them. I hope that answers your question.

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quote:

Originally posted by Race Bannon IV:

Well Fiver to answer your question,since each object of addiction is different, the approach has to be tweaked to fit it. But more or less, the approach would still follow a Cognitive-Behavioral treatment modality(at least if I was doing it)since it deals with challenging the thoughts that drive the addiction and then attacking the behavior. Since a lot of addiction counseling is group based, a "gamers only" approach is needed since we dont want them in with alcoholics and cocaine addicts, as they have little in common with them. I hope that answers your question.

Thank you, that makes sense.

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